Crumbs from Your Table depreciation thread

[ntalwar]

You don't have to be a production expert to think "gee, this song sounds kind of sharp, and there sure are a lot of overdubs."

I think this has been a problem throughout the last two albums. Too many "bells and whistles" are used on songs - just listen to Elevation. I think they need to cut back on that. For the distortion, that may be caused by the excessive amount of hard limiting applied in the mastering process. But U2 may not have a lot of control over it - it's more of an industry issue to make albums sound more "brilliant" to the ear. But I find it annoying when it's overdone.

 

[Salome]

it is still a matter of taste though
while people make it sound that it is a fact that the production is bad

most of these people would say that an album like POP is brilliant while even the band members all agree that the production of that one is flawed

everyone is allowed an oppinion
but it would be nice that when expressing it they realise it really only is an opinion

 

[angelordevil]

most of these people would say that an album like POP is brilliant while even the band members all agree that the production of that one is flawed

Actually, the more time passes, the more brilliant I think POP is. The production may or may not be "flawed," but I think it captures a sincerity that some of Bomb, and especially Crumbs, is missing. The lyrics to Crumbs might have been improvised in that infamous moment Bono describes, but I've always had the sense that the backing track was perhaps something Edge had in his back pocket long before.

 

[Achtung Ya'll]

Please, we get the point. Stop bashing the songs. It's getting extremely old. We've heard it all before. I can't wait for the next album to come out. After about a week, there will be a thousand 'oh, this song sucks' and 'the lyrics are so shallow' threads.

There are so many worthless "fluff" threads in Interference it's ridiculous. But only ones that are critical get really panned. Whatever.

When the next album comes out there will be a million "oh god [insert song here]rocks so hard..best thing u2's ever done! " and it'll get just as annoying.

 

[mobvok]

Please, we get the point. Stop bashing the songs. It's getting extremely old. We've heard it all before. I can't wait for the next album to come out. After about a week, there will be a thousand 'oh, this song sucks' and 'the lyrics are so shallow' threads.

What possible motivation could you have to enter a thread you hate just to dismiss an opinion you loathe, and to do it over and over again? Start your own thread. Whatever. It's an open forum.

CRUMBS FROM YOUR TBALE

I think that "but I'm waiting on the crumbs from your table" is a nice hook, but the other lyrics don't follow up on it. If the tone of the rest of the lyrics should be "you're a hypocrite and a stingy bastard"......there's no follow up. Just zombies and scientists. I also have to admit it looks worse to me because some other great songs didn't make the album yet Crumbs did.

 

[MrBrau1]

If your putting the song down because of overdubs, you pretty much hate most of U2's work.

 

[ntalwar]

This is the audio waveform for Crumbs:



to the engineers for overly compressing it and leaving zero headroom. You won't see this on AB, JT, etc.

 

[angelordevil]

If your putting the song down because of overdubs, you pretty much hate most of U2's work.

No, it's what AtomicBono and GibsonGirl say--the very dark lyrics over music that feels much different. Usually, Bono's strength is how his intonation conveys an emotional sense of how he personally feels at that moment. In this case, Crumbs feels much more like a joyous love song than an angry attack on the Church.

IMO, IMO!

 

[MrBrau1]

No, it's what AtomicBono and GibsonGirl say--the very dark lyrics over music that feels much different. Usually, Bono's strength is how his intonation conveys an emotional sense of how he personally feels at that moment. In this case, Crumbs feels much more like a joyous love song than an angry attack on the Church.

IMO, IMO!

So let me get this straight.

People are dumping on one of the best songs U2 have recorded because it's not something Bono "usually" does, dark/light.

Yet others are dumping on it because it sounds like typical U2.

I'm at a loss.

 

[xaviMF22]

people hate it becasue it sucks

 

[angelordevil]

So let me get this straight.

People are dumping on one of the best songs U2 have recorded because it's not something Bono "usually" does, dark/light.

Yet others are dumping on it because it sounds like typical U2.

I'm at a loss.

I can't speak for other people (nor for Bono), but I'm willing to bet my entire hockey card collection that if you were listening to this song with absolutely no understanding of English, you would get a sense of joy instead of death. It's the chimes, and all the happy effects working in tandem with the happy intonation: Da da da daaaaa....and you speeeeek...that kind of thing.

Brau, I know happy intonation when I hear it.

 

[xaviMF22]

I can't speak for other people (nor for Bono), but I'm willing to bet my entire hockey card collection that if you were listening to this song with absolutely no understanding of English, you would get a sense of joy instead of death. It's the chimes, and all the happy effects working in tandem with the happy intonation: Da da da daaaaa....and you speeeeek...that kind of thing.

Brau, I know happy intonation when I hear it.

how many cards in that collection?

 

[angelordevil]

how many cards in that collection?

Quite a few

 

[Axver]

I can't speak for other people (nor for Bono), but I'm willing to bet my entire hockey card collection that if you were listening to this song with absolutely no understanding of English, you would get a sense of joy instead of death. It's the chimes, and all the happy effects working in tandem with the happy intonation: Da da da daaaaa....and you speeeeek...that kind of thing.

Brau, I know happy intonation when I hear it.

OK, so juxtapositions are bad things now?

 

[LMP]

I call dibs on making the next "we hate this song" thread.

 

[xaviMF22]

I call dibs on making the next "we hate this song" thread.

what song are you gonna pick?

 

[angelordevil]

OK, so juxtapositions are bad things now?

No, juxtapositions are great things, especially when they intertwine and form a range of emotion within the song (Bad or UTEOTW, for example). The problem here is that you have two streams that never flow together. The music is almost ethereal, while the lyrics are pounding. I guess that is a juxtaposition, but here it's a bit like presenting a birthday card at a funeral...it's an uncomfortable contrast. I just think that for a song about a lack of charity, it's overly charitable in the way it sounds; it gives more than it asks, emotionally. That's the way my brain absorbs it, anyway.

I call dibs on making the next "we hate this song" thread.

 

[LMP]

what song are you gonna pick?

I don't know, probably something from the last 2 albums.

 

[DreamOutLoud13]

I don't know, probably something from the last 2 albums.

Psst. Wild Honey

 

[AtomicBono]

OK, so juxtapositions are bad things now?

Well, it pretty much ruins the message of the song, imo. Think about how powerful Bullet is because Edge "put El Salvador through the amplifier." Or think about Sunday Bloody Sunday with its military drumming. Or the heartbroken way Bono sings Please - it's like he really is pleading. If the music and even the way Bono sings the song doesn't match the tone of the lyrics, the message is lost. I think some of the people here anyway don't like Crumbs because the lyrics - a lot of which I really like - seem like they were just thrown onto some generic, happy U2 song. The cheerful mood of the song overshadows the lyrics, and the whole thing comes across as almost cheesy, when it really shouldn't, because the subject matter is serious.

Also, I maintain that the production is bad. Yes, it is an opinion, but as ntalwar showed, the song is seriously over-compressed.

 

[Canadiens1131]

This is the audio waveform for Crumbs:



to the engineers for overly compressing it and leaving zero headroom. You won't see this on AB, JT, etc.

Haha owned.
Best comment of the thread

 

[GibsonGirl]

This is the audio waveform for Crumbs:



to the engineers for overly compressing it and leaving zero headroom. You won't see this on AB, JT, etc.

Another user of Cool Edit, I see.

HTDAAB is kind of terrifying to analyse. This is Vertigo:

The last portion of the song is horrific. The left channel is completely maxed out. In case any of you reading are wondering about this stuff, check out the bar along the bottom. See how the left channel is going right into the end of the red spectrum there? That means the sound engineers have made the track as loud as they possibly can - which accounts for the crackling and distortion you'll hear if you try to play HTDAAB too loudly through your speakers. This is sadly the case for most albums that have been released lately, not just U2.

To contrast, here's In God's Country, which is fairly "loud" as far as The Joshua Tree goes.

The difference is astounding. And you can hear it as well. Older CDs sound so much better.

 

[ntalwar]

^Cool - I found the same thing for JT. (I have the newer Cool Edit - Adobe Audition.) Yeah - the phrase is "Loudness Wars" and it's a shame it's happening - it also clips the audio off. I think it may reverse course a bit (at least I hope).

 

[Canadiens1131]

The left channel is completely maxed out. In case any of you reading are wondering about this stuff, check out the bar along the bottom. See how the left channel is going right into the end of the red spectrum there? That means the sound engineers have made the track as loud as they possibly can - which accounts for the crackling and distortion you'll hear if you try to play HTDAAB too loudly through your speakers.

The difference is astounding. And you can hear it as well. Older CDs sound so much better.

Talk dirty to me

 

[Axver]

No, juxtapositions are great things, especially when they intertwine and form a range of emotion within the song (Bad or UTEOTW, for example). The problem here is that you have two streams that never flow together. The music is almost ethereal, while the lyrics are pounding. I guess that is a juxtaposition, but here it's a bit like presenting a birthday card at a funeral...it's an uncomfortable contrast. I just think that for a song about a lack of charity, it's overly charitable in the way it sounds; it gives more than it asks, emotionally. That's the way my brain absorbs it, anyway.

Ah, OK, now I see where you're coming from. Some of the best songs I know are very cheerful sounding in a musical sense but incredibly depressing lyrically (Dream Theater's Solitary Shell especially), so I wasn't sure if you were just criticising that entirely or had a more specific problem with Crumbs. Thanks for the explanation.

Though, I must say, I honestly don't think Crumbs has that cheerful a sound, but more just Edge's traditional chiming (a sound I love). The song never struck me as feeling particularly cheerful.

 

[Reggie Thee Dog]

I like Crumbs....Crumbs, ah crumbs....!!

 

[Bono's shades]

I love the line "from the brightest star comes the blackest hole."

Too bad most of the lyrics go downhill from there. And like others have said, the music is waaaay too happy and cheerful for the subject matter.

 

[AtomicBono]

Another user of Cool Edit, I see.

HTDAAB is kind of terrifying to analyse. This is Vertigo:

The last portion of the song is horrific. The left channel is completely maxed out. In case any of you reading are wondering about this stuff, check out the bar along the bottom. See how the left channel is going right into the end of the red spectrum there? That means the sound engineers have made the track as loud as they possibly can - which accounts for the crackling and distortion you'll hear if you try to play HTDAAB too loudly through your speakers. This is sadly the case for most albums that have been released lately, not just U2.

To contrast, here's In God's Country, which is fairly "loud" as far as The Joshua Tree goes.

The difference is astounding. And you can hear it as well. Older CDs sound so much better.

I think this is the best arguement for the production I've seen thus far. It's sad indeed that albums these days are mixed that way. I am no expert at anything, but I do know from the very basic recordings I've done that you don't want to max out the volume on any track or channel...

could you possibly show a song from Pop with that program? obviously that just shows how well the song was mixed, not every intricacy of production itself, but I'd be interested to see how it stacks up. I bet it resembles In God's Country more than Vertigo, despite the vast amount of sounds going throughout the record. I've never had a problem with distortion anyway, except of course for Do You Feel Loved.

 

[DreamOutLoud13]

Another user of Cool Edit, I see.

HTDAAB is kind of terrifying to analyse. This is Vertigo:

The last portion of the song is horrific. The left channel is completely maxed out. In case any of you reading are wondering about this stuff, check out the bar along the bottom. See how the left channel is going right into the end of the red spectrum there? That means the sound engineers have made the track as loud as they possibly can - which accounts for the crackling and distortion you'll hear if you try to play HTDAAB too loudly through your speakers. This is sadly the case for most albums that have been released lately, not just U2.

To contrast, here's In God's Country, which is fairly "loud" as far as The Joshua Tree goes.

The difference is astounding. And you can hear it as well. Older CDs sound so much better.

So is this why HTDAAB songs are so fucking loud? Because I've always wondered about that. Anytime I have a bunch of music on shuffle, I have to be ready to turn the volume down a couple of notches when a HTDAAB song comes on, and it's a bit annoying.

 

[U2DMfan]

Any CD that came from a major label is mastered too loud these days, it's not just U2, for whatever that is worth.

those of you who like to read about this sort of stuff, here is a link:

http://www.cdmasteringservices.com/dynamicrange.htm

funny he talks about the panel listening to the CLASSICAL music and not finding a single disc worthy of an engineering Grammy.