City of Philadelphia Adds $199,999 to Boy Scout HQ Rent Due to Gay Ban

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phillyfan26 said:
More than are reported, less than men.

What does it have to do with sex?
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Would it be safe to infer that because there are less female rapists then male rapists that women view sex differently than men? And that difference however ample or small it may be is enough to completely refute whoever said that since "women don't min sleeping in the same tent as lesbians" that men should be able to do the same. Again, I'm not implying that every man is a potential rapist. All I'm saying is that women are more comfortable with being in a position like that then men are whether you like it or not. The way you guys are acting it seems like I'm saying gay people shouldn't be allowed in the Boy Scouts at all. All I''m trying to suggest that because of their orientation that they should have their own privacy just like women have their privacy from men and men from women.
 
BrownEyedBoy said:


How many women are rapists?
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Well the better question to ask is how many rapists are women, and the answer would be very few.

But rape(not date rape) has very little to do with sex. It has to do with power. And the truth is there are many women who use sex as power. The difference in being that they can seduce rather than violently force.

But the truth is, this still has very little to do with your point.

Look, I agree men and women view sex differently. Although honestly I really don't think it's as different as many would think. I believe a lot of our perceptions of how the opposite sex view sex are driven by our own perceptions and the media. I think the media is actually slow in showing us the reality. Reality, I know almost just as many females who just want to get laid no strings attached as men. I also know almost just as many men who have heavy emotional attachments to sex and aren't capable of one night stands. I think both of these types rarely exist in media but in my experience are more prevelant than many are led to believe.

But we're way off subject and this would be a great thread for another day...
 
BrownEyedBoy said:


Would it be safe to infer that because there are less female rapists then male rapists that women view sex differently than men? And that difference however ample or small it may be is enough to completely refute whoever said that since "women don't min sleeping in the same tent as lesbians" that men should be able to do the same. Again, I'm not implying that every man is a potential rapist. All I'm saying is that women are more comfortable with being in a position like that then men are whether you like it or not. The way you guys are acting it seems like I'm saying gay people shouldn't be allowed in the Boy Scouts at all. All I''m trying to suggest that because of their orientation that they should have their own privacy just like women have their privacy from men and men from women.
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No, it would not be safe to assume that. Rapists are an anomaly. It's not the commonplace. Rapists are corrupted individuals, for reasons that in some cases are not their fault, and in some cases are their fault. But they reflect nothing on men as a whole, let alone man's view of sex.

And you seem to confuse gender with sexual orientation. Why are the two related to you?
 
BrownEyedBoy said:


The way you guys are acting it seems like I'm saying gay people shouldn't be allowed in the Boy Scouts at all. All I''m trying to suggest that because of their orientation that they should have their own privacy just like women have their privacy from men and men from women.
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When I was in the scouts privacy wasn't much of an issue. You slept in tents, usually with other scouts. The scout leader usually slept in a tent with his own son. We were boys so showering wasn't really much of an issue, most of us would go on a weekend trip and not shower, or change all that much either... Maybe my scout troop was just shy or modest. I just don't see the big deal, I can't imagine go back to my scouting days and thinking any different if one of the boys or scout masters were gay.

I kind of find your views of sex disturbing, I've never met anyone who used rape as a defintion to define how gender or sex is different.
 
phillyfan26 said:


No, it would not be safe to assume that. Rapists are an anomaly. It's not the commonplace. Rapists are corrupted individuals, for reasons that in some cases are not their fault, and in some cases are their fault. But they reflect nothing on men as a whole, let alone man's view of sex.

And you seem to confuse gender with sexual orientation. Why are the two related to you?
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Could it be because, in most cases, gender determines sexual orientation?
 
BrownEyedBoy said:


Could it be because, in most cases, gender determines sexual orientation?
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What:huh: That doesn't make any sense. If you are born female you'll more than likely by straight, but if born male you'll more likely be gay?
 
phillyfan26 said:


I'm not quite sure what you're asking. :huh:
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You asked me how gender and sexual orientation are related and I merely answered that in most cases, gender determines sexual orientation. Boys, in most cases - except apparently when you ask someone in FYM - like girls, and viceversa.
 
BrownEyedBoy said:
You asked me how gender and sexual orientation are related and I merely answered that in most cases, gender determines sexual orientation. Boys, in most cases - except apparently when you ask someone in FYM - like girls, and viceversa.
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Oh give me break.

1) Sexual orientation means heterosexuality of homosexuality. Not "liking boys" or "liking girls." Gender means nothing with hetero- or homo- sexuality.

2) What the hell does "when you ask someone in FYM" mean?
 
BrownEyedBoy said:


You asked me how gender and sexual orientation are related and I merely answered that in most cases, gender determines sexual orientation. Boys, in most cases - except apparently when you ask someone in FYM - like girls, and viceversa.
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Again, you're letting fear and prejudice replace fact.
 
phillyfan26 said:



2) What the hell does "when you ask someone in FYM" mean?
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It means that everywhere else in the world people will tell you that "generally" people are born heterosexuals and that if you ask someone in FYM who views the issue with passionate and biased eyes you get this response:

phillyfan26 said:


Gender means nothing with hetero- or homo- sexuality.
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You clearly seem to not understand what I'm saying.

I'm not denying that most people are heterosexual at all.

I don't understand what your point about gender and orientation is though.

That's what I'm saying: Your point makes no sense.

ETA: And I love how suddenly I'm the one who's "passionate and biased." :rolleyes:
 
I was in the scouts when I was younger, and I don't recall there being a rule like that. It's absolutely pathetic that the Boy Scouts have become that discriminatory. If I had kids, at this point I wouldn't let them join the Scouts. :mad:
 
phillyfan26 said:
You clearly seem to not understand what I'm saying.

I'm not denying that most people are heterosexual at all.

I don't understand what your point about gender and orientation is though.

That's what I'm saying: Your point makes no sense.

ETA: And I love how suddenly I'm the one who's "passionate and biased." :rolleyes:
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I didn't mean to be offensive by saying passionate and biased. I just tried to choose the correct words that would describe what I'm perceiving from you.

My point with gender and orientation is that it makes people uncomfortable to have intimacy with strangers of the opposite sexual orientation. And I believe that's perfectly normal.

So if men and women, who have been separated for centuries because of their orientation, are separated in intimacy than so should homosexuals.
 
Oh, so because we've always been "weirded out" by gays "for centuries" because we thought they were sinners or some other kind of religious garbage, it's OK to discriminate?

It's been explained already that the separation was not because of intimacy.

anitram said:
Boys and girls (at least in the Western setting) have not been culturally groomed to shower together, and therefore it is seen as unacceptable much like walking around topless (for women) is not something you would see on our streets.

Boys do shower together and women shower together and there are gay men and lesbians among them that you may be unaware of.
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phillyfan26 said:
Oh, so because we've always been "weirded out" by gays "for centuries" because we thought they were sinners or some other kind of religious garbage, it's OK to discriminate?

It's been explained already that the separation was not because of intimacy.
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Oh that's right, that post removed every single doubt in my mind that men and women are, in fact, separated because of physiology. Ask around. Ask every straight guy you know if they would be comfortable showering in the same place as gay men. If the result offends you, then ask women if they would comfortable showering in the same showers as straight men.
 
martha said:


Don't kid yourself on the date rape thing. It's all about power.
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I agree, but one has a little more to do with getting off than the other. Date rape, if the woman consented the result would be the same. Whereas rape doen't even always need the sexual gratification, and if she consented the result wouldn't be the same.

Yes they are both about power, but one started off about being more about sex than the other.
 
Wrong.

You ask women if they would be comfortable showering in the same showers as gay women.

And most men have showered with a gay already, so what's the big deal?
 
Although everyone is staying fairly civil, this discussion seems to just be going in circles.
 
BrownEyedBoy said:
My point with gender and orientation is that it makes people uncomfortable to have intimacy with strangers of the opposite sexual orientation. And I believe that's perfectly normal.

So if men and women, who have been separated for centuries because of their orientation, are separated in intimacy than so should homosexuals.
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It used to make people uncomfortable to share the same quarters with minorities. That used to be normal. Should we never have desegregated?

It used to make people uncomfortable to see intimacy between people of different races. That used to be normal. Should we not have allowed interracial marriages to become acceptable?

Seriously, think of the position you're taking. "It's always been that way, so why ruffle feathers" completely ignores the central issue of equality.
 
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phillyfan26 said:
Wrong.

You ask women if they would be comfortable showering in the same showers as gay women.

And most men have showered with a gay already, so what's the big deal?
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Like I said before, women view sex differently than men. That is why you're opposite of women being asked if they are comfortable showering with lesbians doesn't apply.

In order for there to be uncomfortableness there has to be a man involved. Because men view sex differently than women. Go ahead and ask a woman if she would feel uncomfortable showering with straight men and if she says yes please tell her I feel offended because of her presumption that us straight males "cannot control ourselves."
 
BrownEyedBoy said:
Like I said before, women view sex differently than men. That is why you're opposite of women being asked if they are comfortable showering with lesbians doesn't apply.

In order for there to be uncomfortableness there has to be a man involved. Because men view sex differently than women. Go ahead and ask a woman if she would feel uncomfortable showering with straight men and if she says yes please tell her I feel offended because of her presumption that us straight males "cannot control ourselves."
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Oh dear God.

I can't even begin to explain how much is wrong with this post tonight. I need a day or so.
 
BrownEyedBoy said:



It means that everywhere else in the world people will tell you that "generally" people are born heterosexuals and that if you ask someone in FYM who views the issue with passionate and biased eyes you get this response:
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well, i'll just take this to mean that the two (yes, just two) openly gay and frequently posting FYMers are just very adept at expressing their viewpoints and no one is allowed to get away with homophobia, prejudice, and derogatory stereotypes.
 
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