Bono as an idol, CoeXisT and Bono's faith

[indra]

That is a good article. Thanks for posting it.

 

[BonosSaint]

Coemgen, from other posts, you're dangerous. A fundamentalist WITH a sense of humor. And more openness than you're being credited with here sometimes.

I think every search for God is an individual journey. Sometimes He is found, sometimes not. Faith is also pursuit in spite of disbelief. I am hoping God honors the search, whatever form it takes.

 

[blueyedpoet]

I think every search for God is an individual journey. Sometimes He is found, sometimes not. Faith is also pursuit in spite of disbelief. I am hoping God honors the search, whatever form it takes.

You have captured the essence of my belief. I don't exactly know what to think about Jesus. I've grown up as a PK, but as a seeker I find my father's answers just don't quiet answer anything. I search and search. I pray, meditate, yell, disbelieve, seek etc. At the end of the day, if God does judge us, I hope he judges how hard I've tried to learn about love, grace, karma, the universe, logic, and humanity.

 

[nathan1977]

I think to minimize the good work that thousands of missionaries do (working amongst the urban poor, building houses, digging wells, teaching women and men about sexual health -- and, yes, in so doing telling people that God loves them, which is usually a revolutionary idea considering the socio-cultural standards at play) by calling it "racism" is rather disingenuous, and may betray more than a little ignorance about what missionaries actually do.

As an MK, I'd like to think I know what I'm talking about...

But this might be a little off-topic from a very interesting discussion...

 

[indra]

As an MK, I'd like to think I know what I'm talking about...

Uh, what's an MK?

 

[popsadie]

I think MK stands for missionary's kid.

 

[Irvine511]

I think to minimize the good work that thousands of missionaries do (working amongst the urban poor, building houses, digging wells, teaching women and men about sexual health -- and, yes, in so doing telling people that God loves them, which is usually a revolutionary idea considering the socio-cultural standards at play) by calling it "racism" is rather disingenuous, and may betray more than a little ignorance about what missionaries actually do.

i said "incidental racism." it's still the recycling of colonialist narratives that treat the racialized other, the colonized, as child and in need of help.

when it comes to hard-core economics, that's one thing, as legitimate greivances can be made on the case of the colonized that the colonizers do at least owe them debt forgiveness.

but when it comes to the "saving of souls" in non-Christian countries, that i find to be patronizing, and it's still a part of the colonialist project, for if you can get the natives, as it were, to believe in your God, then you've created a powerful blueprint for social control.

you are right to point out the good work that missionaries do, and i have no doubt that many people are moved by their faith to do good works and expect little or nothing in return.

but this is not what NBC was talking about. he was speaking about bringing the message of Christ, nothing else, and pointed to this as a reason why missionaries are called to serve -- so that the unwashed brown masses don't burn in hell.

 

[sulawesigirl4]

MK is missionary kid. And I'm one of them too.

There are the good and the bad to be found amongst the ranks of missionaries. I feel my parents did a fantastic job not only sharing their faith in a non "we're better than you" fashion but also in sharing critical things like medical knowledge, literacy, and clean water projects. That said, as an adult I look back somewhat aghast and sickened at a lot of the pervasive racism and arrogance I found within the mission community. It certainly served to provoke my search for a belief system more tenable and less judgemental once I reached adulthood and started thinking independently.

 

[Sherry Darling]

Hi all--haven't forgotten about ya. Christmas madness may prevent me from posting back here, but I'll try.

Fascinating thread!

 

[noelle]

I was thinking of Bono as idol...during and after the concert I really was admiring him, his charisma, his humility, etc. But I don't want to idolize him too much.It's like the Buddhists are not worshipping the Buddha, they are supposed to use Buddha images as a way to tap into the Buddha's spiritual power.
I'm also interested in Bono's explorations about the concept of Grace.Anyone help with this?

 

[coemgen]

Coemgen, from other posts, you're dangerous. A fundamentalist WITH a sense of humor. And more openness than you're being credited with here sometimes.

I think every search for God is an individual journey. Sometimes He is found, sometimes not. Faith is also pursuit in spite of disbelief. I am hoping God honors the search, whatever form it takes.

Hey BonosSaint, thanks for the kind post. I actually consider it a complement to be considered dangerous. (Christ was dangerous too.) However, the sense of humor comment is debatable. Seriously though, I appreciate your nice comments (and your posts.)

I agree with what you said about the search for God being an individual journey. It is. He created us as individuals and meets us that way. My relationship with him is very different from my wife's relationship with him. I honestly think, if people seek him wholeheartedly, they'll find truth. They'll find him. The cool thing is I really think we're all on a spiritual journey -- even the agnostics and athiests. We're spiritual beings. God created us to have a relationship with him, as well as others. My sincere prayer is that we all, especially everyone reading and posting on this thread, seek him. I can debate with people tell we're 80-years-old and they may not discover a relationship with Christ. (I debate here though becuase it's fun and interesting and, heck, it's FYM.) All I can really do -- all any Christian can do -- is love people sincerely, not judge them and show them Christ through our life. Hopefully, I've done that here occaisionally. I know I've jacked it up many times though.

 

[coemgen]

You have captured the essence of my belief. I don't exactly know what to think about Jesus. I've grown up as a PK, but as a seeker I find my father's answers just don't quiet answer anything. I search and search. I pray, meditate, yell, disbelieve, seek etc. At the end of the day, if God does judge us, I hope he judges how hard I've tried to learn about love, grace, karma, the universe, logic, and humanity.

This is it. This is what I was telling BonosSaint about. This is beautiful! Seriously. God loves that you're chasing after him like this, blueeyedpoet. I promise you that. Keep it up. You'll find him. I strongly encourage you to NOT accept your father's faith, but find your own relationship with God. For me, this has to start with serious prayer and reading his word. That's how we can enter his presence and feel his guidance.

You're in my prayers, blueeyedpoet. God bless you. Thanks for sharing this.

 

[BVS]

Still no one's told me how "the only way" has been offered to everyone in this world.

 

[coemgen]

I was thinking of Bono as idol...during and after the concert I really was admiring him, his charisma, his humility, etc. But I don't want to idolize him too much.It's like the Buddhists are not worshipping the Buddha, they are supposed to use Buddha images as a way to tap into the Buddha's spiritual power.
I'm also interested in Bono's explorations about the concept of Grace.Anyone help with this?

I'm glad someone posted about Bono being seen as an idol.

I have a confession to make here on FYM.
A little while ago I discovered that I had, in deed, turned Bono into somewhat of an idol. Not that I worshiped him or anything like that, but I sought my identity in him. (I know this sounds retarded, but I don't care.) As a Christian, I just see what he's doing for Christ as utterly amazing. He's consistently inspiring. However, sometimes I cross the line between being inspired and looking to his example over looking toward Christ's example. It's easy to do, in fact, idols are everywhere and Christians fall for them just as easy as anyone else. TV, clothes, money, our jobs, the internet, friends, family, our car, etc. Are these things in themselves, bad? No. But when we put a higher value on them than God, we're in trouble.
Our "relationship" with these things can easily turn into greed and be about "me." Our relationship with God shouldn't be about "me," but about him. It's the same with how I see Bono sometimes, I want to change the world like him. The sad thing is I'm wanting to change the world because I want to be seen as someone good like him, NOT out of a love for humanity and in service and worship to God. I've been caught up in myself, which is what takes place when you idolize something that's not God.

I'm sharing this because I enjoy the discussion with you guys and want to see what you think. Do you see anything in your life that you idolize?

Sorry to blow a lot of hot air here.

 

[coemgen]

Still no one's told me how "the only way" has been offered to everyone in this world.

Has everyone heard the Gospel, no. Those of us who know the Gospel, are called to find those people and share it with them. There are Christians all over the world, in the jungles, in the mountains, in all countries doing this. They're answering the Great Commission that Christ gave us. Will it reach everyone? No, but God will deal with those people fairly and justly. It has, however, reached the majority of us. It's reached you. It's reached me. Also, those it hasn't reached, God works with now. His spirit also works to point us toward Christ. That's the role of the Holy Spirit. The spirit can reach anyone where ever they are.
Then there's the Bible. The most read book in the world. Copies of it are given out by old men in suits at college campuses and by missionaries in Africa and Asia. His word is reaching people. He is reaching people. God came down to earth and walked among us to reach people. Then he died on the cross so we could reach God. He extended his hand, we just have to grab it. It's up to us.

 

[Eliv8]

Two monks who came out of a lecture by their master went on a hot debate regarding what they heard during the lecture. Each of them insited that his understanding was the correct one. To settle the dispute, they went to see the master for a judgement.

After hearing the argument put forth by the first monk, the master said, "You are correct!" The monk was overjoy. Casting a winner's glance at his friend, he left the room.

The second monk was upset and started to pour out what he thought to the master. After he finished, the master looked at him and said, "You are correct, too." Hearing this, the second monk brightened up and went away.

A third monk who was also in the room was greatly puzzled by what he saw. He said to the master, "I am confused, master! Their positions regarding the issue are completely opposite. They can't be both right! How could you say that they are both correct?"

The master smiled as he looked into the eyes of this third monk, "You are also correct!"

 

[BVS]

Will it reach everyone? No, but God will deal with those people fairly and justly.

So then does this include Muslim and Jewish people? For they may have heard about Christ, but most haven't exactly been given the "truth" about Christ.

 

[coemgen]

 

[BVS]

Two monks who came out of a lecture by their master went on a hot debate regarding what they heard during the lecture. Each of them insited that his understanding was the correct one. To settle the dispute, they went to see the master for a judgement.

After hearing the argument put forth by the first monk, the master said, "You are correct!" The monk was overjoy. Casting a winner's glance at his friend, he left the room.

The second monk was upset and started to pour out what he thought to the master. After he finished, the master looked at him and said, "You are correct, too." Hearing this, the second monk brightened up and went away.

A third monk who was also in the room was greatly puzzled by what he saw. He said to the master, "I am confused, master! Their positions regarding the issue are completely opposite. They can't be both right! How could you say that they are both correct?"

The master smiled as he looked into the eyes of this third monk, "You are also correct!"

That's great.

 

[coemgen]

BVS, I would think so, yes. However, I must add, that I believe through the work of Christians, the Bible and the Holy Spirit and other things, God reaches everyone of us. Like you said before, how could God not share what he did through Christ with everyone? I think he tries to reach everyone with it.

 

[coemgen]

Oh, and BVS, my wasn't meant for you.

 

[Eliv8]

That's great.

Thank you

This says a lot too

 

[coemgen]

Eliv8
I believe in CoeXisTing. In fact, I think Coexist is actually a pretty weak word to use. Coexist is what old married couples do after the dialogue and romance is gone.
I'm all for loving, accepting and having relationships with people of different faiths, backgrounds and beliefs. As a Christian, I would have no problem hanging out with a muslim, a homosexual or a politician. Christ, in fact, hung out with all kinds of people. He typically shunned the religious leaders to go eat dinner with the greedy tax collectors and sinners. So really, a Christian who can't hang with non-Christians isn't following the example of Christ.

That said, Christ didn't come down and say believe whatever you want to believe either. He came with very specific teachings and commands. "Not to condemn the world, but to save it," as he said of his own trip down here.

 

[nbcrusader]

and that is why i am so, so turned off by so many of Christ's followers.

the arrogance and chauvinism combined with condescention and incidental racism really irks me.

These are matters you should take up with God.

 

[Irvine511]

These are matters you should take up with God.

no.

these are matters i will take up with those on earth who claim intimate knowledge of the wants and needs of the almighty.

 

[sallycinnamon78]

or maybe they were edited in after the fact?

you know, the like re-released Star Wars movies.

 

[sallycinnamon78]

*Appears to have developed a habit of walking into a thread at the wrong time*.

 

[A_Wanderer]

or maybe they were edited in after the fact?

you know, the like re-released Star Wars movies.

I knew Jesus shot Judas first

 

[nbcrusader]

no.

these are matters i will take up with those on earth who claim intimate knowledge of the wants and needs of the almighty.

I may be mistaken, but don't you find His followers less than perfect?

You're a smart guy, wouldn't you take up your questions with the One with all the answers?

 

[deep]

These are matters you should take up with God.

I suppose if one wanted to know the truth about Islam
they should try praying 5 times a day
and study the Holy Koran for 30 days straight
with an open mind and heart


at the end of 30 days

they would either be moved
and accept the truth of "there is no God but God"

or

they could tell everyone of their sincere quest for answers
and after this fair and sincere attempt they got no inspiration or signs
concerning the correctness of Islam.


Who here is honest enough to pray and study the Holy Koran for 30 days?