ask Irvine about men!

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{paintedroses} said:


Lol, thank you but I should have been more clear, I wasn't asking about me, I was asking about the guy I like (I'm a girl). He broke up with his girlfriend a few weeks ago and while I feel things could maybe happen between us one day, he's still quite caught up about his ex and I was wondering how long I'd have to wait and well if its worth waiting for him. I'm not really sure if theres much advice you could give on this actually, but its worth a try I guess.. :shrug: I'm just a bit confused about the whole situation because I know we both like each other but I also know we might not end up together any time soon if at all, so I don't know what to do other than just sit it out.



oh. sorry!

i think it depends on what kind of relationship you want to have. if you just want to have fun, well, go for it -- he's probably not over her, 18 months is a long time when you're 19, and he would probably only be interetsed in someone who's something of a rebound -- and that's not a bad thing to be. i think we should all participate in all kinds of different relationships, and there's nothing wrong with just having fun when you're young.

if you are interested in something long term, then wait. i'd say a good 3 months is needed for any kind of grieveing process. maybe longer. it took me a year to get over my first one, but everyone is different.
 
causalitycalls said:


I think your dead on right there-so how do you get a guy to be more romantic/emotional? If a guy attends to a girl's emotional needs (hugs, kissing, mushy-whatever, etc...) then she's 110 times more likely to want to attend to his physical needs. But god-forbid you freakin tell a guy that, because then he's like "quit telling me-I was about to, but now you had to tell me to & I don't want to...." kinda deal. So how can you drop the hint more subtly?



hmmmm ... sounds like the problem here is this particular guy. he's an idiot (from a male perspective) if he's going to not do something out of principle that will keep him from getting some.

;)

my advice: say things like, "it was so wonderful when we laid there on the couch after the DVD was over and we just talked for a bit. i love opening up to you, and you listen so well. it was very, very sexy for me." don't be too explicit. just try to connect instances where he's romantic and attentive to that making you feel more sexy, and he'll get the message.
 
Irvine511 said:




oh. sorry!

i think it depends on what kind of relationship you want to have. if you just want to have fun, well, go for it -- he's probably not over her, 18 months is a long time when you're 19, and he would probably only be interetsed in someone who's something of a rebound -- and that's not a bad thing to be. i think we should all participate in all kinds of different relationships, and there's nothing wrong with just having fun when you're young.

if you are interested in something long term, then wait. i'd say a good 3 months is needed for any kind of grieveing process. maybe longer. it took me a year to get over my first one, but everyone is different.

Thank you Irvine! :)
 
Re: Re: ask Irvine about men!

meegannie said:


That sounds much more like me than my husband. Maybe I'm a man. :sad:



ah, well, i was joking around, but i do think it's true that women tend to be better multi-taskers than men, whereas men are generally more one-track minded -- this can be a strength, good powers of conversation, how men can get totally absorbed in a project, etc.

;)
 
Re: Re: Re: ask Irvine about men!

Irvine511 said:




ah, well, i was joking around, but i do think it's true that women tend to be better multi-taskers than men, whereas men are generally more one-track minded -- this can be a strength, good powers of conversation, how men can get totally absorbed in a project, etc.

;)


I think this is true. If I'm going by a certain someone, it's definitely true, lol.
 
Ooh, Irvine, I have two for you:

I had a similar situation to April's...a much older guy at work, who was flirty, would wave at me everytime he saw me and often would come in to my office expressly to see me. He really became my office crush too, not helped by my coworkers encouraging me and saying he liked me. This has really faded away in the last year or so--occasionally he'll stop conversations with his coworkers and come over to talk to me, and joke around. But weeks will now go by without him speaking to me, despite that we work next door to each other. This toying game has been going on for the 3 years I've worked there. I know he's not evergoing to ask me out, but I'm curious as to why he's become so unfriendly. Is he just sick of me? Does he think I'm too immature to bother with? Why did he ever encourage me? Was it simply to stroke his own ego?

My second one happened to my sister--I guess basically the same thing. She met a guy at a club, I've seen the messages he's left for her on MySpace--very flirty, clearly "interested." He pressured her to let him come over this weekend so they could hang out and watch movies and listen to the new music he had for her...and then before he went home "I think we should just be friends."

I guess my question, really, is WHY do men start these flirty, hinty sort of friendships--raise the stakes, so to speak, but then abruptly cut it off. Do they think you are now too attached to them, and it's gone too far? If they are not interested, why don't they simply keep it on a purely friendly level?

Are my sister and I just taking things too seriously? Are we sending out the wrong signals that suddenly earns us the cold shoulder? Why does every other girl we know manage to turn these things into relationships, but we get shoved into the friend zone?

It just keeps happening over and over and it's quite frustrating...makes us both feel like total heels, frankly. I have my own theories, but I would be very interested in a guy's point of view.
 
Amazed at the whole premise of this thread.

No offense to the starter of it but to say alot of things with such certainty from a few lines on an internet forum is a stretch. Every person is an individual and reacts to things differently. To say, or even imply that a certain reaction is guaranteed or only because they are of a particular gender is just ridiculous. There are so many intangible factors that play into any type of interpersonal behaviour there is no way to be so certain.

My advice, is talk to the guy(or girl) like they are person and find out what is going. They are a person, not an animal. Sure, there are circumstances that do require descretion (like Aprils workplace deal). But for the most part just ask. The answer may not be what you want to hear (then again, it may be), but at least you know then. :shrug:
 
Blue Room,

I don't think Irvine ever claimed he was speaking for all men, nor did the women in this thread claim they were speaking for their gender.

It's a bit like shooting the breeze, I think and I don't know why some people want to make it into something that's akin to scientific research. The qualifier that the opinions stated in this thread may not be applicable to every case is tacitly stated, IMO.
 
anitram said:
Blue Room,

I don't think Irvine ever claimed he was speaking for all men, nor did the women in this thread claim they were speaking for their gender.

It's a bit like shooting the breeze, I think and I don't know why some people want to make it into something that's akin to scientific research. The qualifier that the opinions stated in this thread may not be applicable to every case is tacitly stated, IMO.

Thats fine, certainly didnt appear like that to me by some of the responses. :shrug: Some major generalization going on here that do appear to be presented like they are exact science. Sorry, but thats what it looked like to me.

I wish everyone luck, relationships can be a bitch. But 9 times out of 10 the person in the situation is the best judge. The best thing friends can do is be supportive.
 
Blue Room said:
Thats fine, certainly didnt appear like that to me by some of the responses. :shrug: Some major generalization going on here that do appear to be presented like they are exact science. Sorry, but thats what it looked like to me.

I wish everyone luck, relationships can be a bitch. But 9 times out of 10 the person in the situation is the best judge.

I agree with you to some extent in that the idea that a gay guy is somehow better qualified to be an 'agony uncle' and offer advice on male psychology is possibly mildly presumptuous. But it's no big deal to be honest. Irvine is a very intelligent poster, if he wants to offer his perspective, then let him I'd say.

Having said that it's more of a fun thread so perhaps not to be taken seriously either way, maybe people can learn things from it even still.
 
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AvsGirl41 said:
Ooh, Irvine, I have two for you:

I had a similar situation to April's...a much older guy at work, who was flirty, would wave at me everytime he saw me and often would come in to my office expressly to see me. He really became my office crush too, not helped by my coworkers encouraging me and saying he liked me. This has really faded away in the last year or so--occasionally he'll stop conversations with his coworkers and come over to talk to me, and joke around. But weeks will now go by without him speaking to me, despite that we work next door to each other. This toying game has been going on for the 3 years I've worked there. I know he's not evergoing to ask me out, but I'm curious as to why he's become so unfriendly. Is he just sick of me? Does he think I'm too immature to bother with? Why did he ever encourage me? Was it simply to stroke his own ego?


i think it's a combination of a lot of things -- he probably was mildly flirty to a younger female, and when he saw how receptive you were to it, i think a few things kicked in, one of which that office relationships are tricky at best, and situations with older males and younger females can be especially suspect. it could have been merely a bit of infatuation -- look, here's someone new and interesting -- but when it came down to the practcalities of the situation, anything beyond workplace banter might simply have seemed like a bad idea.

My second one happened to my sister--I guess basically the same thing. She met a guy at a club, I've seen the messages he's left for her on MySpace--very flirty, clearly "interested." He pressured her to let him come over this weekend so they could hang out and watch movies and listen to the new music he had for her...and then before he went home "I think we should just be friends."

i would imagine he thought he might have been interested, they hung out, and he decided he wasn't interested. probably as simple as that. we have a thing in the gay world called "GayDD" that is, i think, a bit applicable to all men -- it's very easy to be interested in someone very quickly, but when it really comes down to it, when you hang out outside of a bar/club situation with no alcohol involved, there wasn't that much of a spark.

i also sometimes see girls projecting thoughts and feelings onto a crush that they really don't have evidence for to begin with. it's fun to sit back and plot and imagine and project, but there might simply be no "there" there.

why do men do this? well, putting aside the possibility that women are creating a false reality, it might be that men can be just as flightly (though, in masculine terms, that would be impulsive) as women. it seems like a good idea at the time, but when you step back and take a good look at the situation, maybe it isn't a good idea.

i think you and your sister are taking things too seriously if you think that this is just happening to you, or that you two are somehow the only people who have to deal with this. it happens all the time, and i think you're beating yourself up too much to think that "everyone else" is able to turn a brief encounter in a club into a relationship.
 
Blue Room said:
Amazed at the whole premise of this thread.

No offense to the starter of it but to say alot of things with such certainty from a few lines on an internet forum is a stretch. Every person is an individual and reacts to things differently. To say, or even imply that a certain reaction is guaranteed or only because they are of a particular gender is just ridiculous. There are so many intangible factors that play into any type of interpersonal behaviour there is no way to be so certain.

My advice, is talk to the guy(or girl) like they are person and find out what is going. They are a person, not an animal. Sure, there are circumstances that do require descretion (like Aprils workplace deal). But for the most part just ask. The answer may not be what you want to hear (then again, it may be), but at least you know then. :shrug:



that is good advice.

however, i am not selling books. i am not on TV. i do not call myself Dr. i am just having some fun, hoping maybe i can be of a little bit of help since my comments seemed to be appreciated in April's thread.

anyone who thinks this is science ... well, i've got some beachfront property in nebraska i'd like to sell you.
 
anitram said:
The qualifier that the opinions stated in this thread may not be applicable to every case is tacitly stated, IMO.



yes, exactly. well said.

i mean, do people ever read Savage Love? did you read Dear Abby? Ann Landers?

those columns are all for entertainment purposes.

so is this thread.
 
financeguy said:


I agree with you to some extent in that the idea that a gay guy is somehow better qualified to be an 'agony uncle' and offer advice on male psychology is possibly mildly presumptuous. But it's no big deal to be honest. Irvine is a very intelligent poster, if he wants to offer his perspective, then let him I'd say.



i agree with mildly presumptuous.

but considering how much time i spend giving both women and men relationship advice -- and the fact that the whole gay-guy-gives-straight-girl-advice is almost at this point a stock character in stupid romantic comedies -- i think it's fair to say that the presumption is not without foundation and precedent.

at the end of the day, just trying to have a little fun. take it for what it is. of course all of this is a series of generalizations. there's only so much information i have to go on -- the questions are presented as generalizations and simplifications to begin with. such is the nature of anything akin to an advice column. what advice columnists, and maybe radio shrinks, do is they hear someone's situation and they try to pick out what recurring patterns/template of human behavior they see, and then take those patterns, elucidate them so that the viewer/reader can see them and give them a name, and then try to apply what they know to the situation.

i am sorry if i come off as presumptous, or know-it-all. but for people to feel so put-off by that that they start attacking me in the beginning -- this is not directed at Blue Room -- really speaks more about someone else's insecurities and pessimistic attitudes than does it belie whatever presumptions i might be making.
 
No problem with it, perhaps I misunderstood. Just seemed like some people were taking it fairly seriously. If its just entertainment. Thats cool, go for it. :up:
 
Irvine, can you please address the subject of porn and why *in general* men tend to use it more than women. Are men more visual when it comes to sex?

As a related question, why do *some* men (not all but some) find an anonymous woman walking down the street more exciting than the women they are in a relationship with?
 
causalitycalls said:
hmmm--I'll try it. I think he's trying for the element of surprise, he wants to act romantic but for me not to know why or think he's just doing it for sex. He's like a puppys: young & sweet, but still needs some training
:rolleyes: :)


I've seen several articles and interviews that support that the method of training men in such a way, so you are actually dead on.
Not that men are dogs or anything :uhoh:
:wink:



Irvine511 said:



why do men do this? well, putting aside the possibility that women are creating a false reality, it might be that men can be just as flightly (though, in masculine terms, that would be impulsive) as women. it seems like a good idea at the time, but when you step back and take a good look at the situation, maybe it isn't a good idea.

I agree



=


Are men more visual when it comes to sex?

Yes, they are, in general...
 
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Irvine511 said:

i think you and your sister are taking things too seriously if you think that this is just happening to you, or that you two are somehow the only people who have to deal with this. it happens all the time, and i think you're beating yourself up too much to think that "everyone else" is able to turn a brief encounter in a club into a relationship.

Well, there I have to stop you and say this is a real misunderstanding of our characters. Neither of us think this at all, or imagine anyone meets Mr. Right in a club or a bar. The only thing I hope to get in a bar is a free drink. And...well, I never do, but whatever. :wink: What I meant, rather, was that most of the people we know seem to actually end up with something fairly reliable (even if only for a month or two) after the same round of phone calls, movies, coffee bars, etc., that Sarah did. I'm not saying that everyone does, or that no one gets shunned after doing the rounds...does anyone really expect happily ever after?

I think what it boils down to is "emotional fuckwittage." If things were kept more casual, let's-feel-things-out, no implications, I would say she'd blown things out of proportion, but to jump into full blown, all-night conversations and bags of candy....and then to decide there's no spark?

There has to be more to it!

I should add, I'm not trying to seem defensive or anything, I'm just puzzled as to how the signals get *so* crossed.
 
Irvine, do you think some men suffer from the Peter Pan syndrome and will never grow up? The reason I ask is that aside from the guys who seem like super-serious old souls, it seems that once men start to get older, they settle down or basically stop living their lives like they're 18 year old college freshmen. And then you have the group who seemingly never grow up. I worked with one who at the age of 29 went partying with college girls, and couldn't remember a single moment between Thursday-Saturday night because he was sauced out of his mind. And otherwise, he was relatively successful, he was well educated, had a good job as a legal editor, was attractive, intelligent and so on. But when you heard the stories of his weekends or saw how he behaved in a social setting, it was just pathetic for a guy of his age, at least to me.
 
Calluna said:
Irvine, can you please address the subject of porn and why *in general* men tend to use it more than women. Are men more visual when it comes to sex?

As a related question, why do *some* men (not all but some) find an anonymous woman walking down the street more exciting than the women they are in a relationship with?



most men look at porn in some form of another. the reason is, i think, because the nature of porn does correlate to the simpler stimulus-response of male sexuality. naked bodies = sexual possibility, this is exciting, and an erection happens. i think there are differences between what might be called soft core porn, and hard core porn. soft core porn is probably more aesthetically pleasing, and meant to induce an overall feeling of sexiness -- those that produce it will put money into creating sets that have many of the traditional signifiers of sexiness like fireplaces, chocolate, champagne, art, etc. soft core porn is often enjoyed by couples, since it's attention to details beyond skin can be as alluring to women as it is to men. it provides a sexy, sometimes romantic escapist fantasy.

hard core porn is more designed for one purpose -- as a masturbatory agent. hard core generally shows genitalia, and often fucking or other sex acts, and it's this down-and-dirty, "show the pink" (something Hustler was willing to do before Playboy, and even today, Playboy is a much more aesthetic depiction of women and Penthouse or Hustler) attitude that makes it even less about having sex (let alone making love) and more about fucking; or, even more direct, it's about ejaculating. as has been discussed, since male and female sexuality is aroused by different things, hard core porn is almost like an erection delivery system for (as always, SOME) men. they see it. they get aroused. they masturbate. it's over. i think the vast, vast majority of men are able to separate fantasy from reality; they know that most women don't look like they do in the pages of Penthouse; they know that the "interviews" with these women are designed to make them aroused and have nothing to do with reality. these women aren't people, they are 2-D images, total product. most men know this, and most men wouldn't trade their girlfriends and spouses for these women on the magazines. think of hard core porn as akin to, say, vaseline or any other masturbatory lubricant a man might use. they are of equal use for men.

as for the woman walking down the street ... i think you're misreading it. if a man is walking with you down the street and he sees a gorgeous woman walk by and he turns his head (perhaps even in mid-conversation) to look at her, this doesn't mean that he's more interested in her than in you. it means that he was distracted; she caught his attention for a brief moment, and he was probably thinking that she was beautiful, and perhaps had a brief (like, 2 second) sexual fantasy about her. but that's all it was, fantasy. i think many men are able to see people walking down the street and instantly imagine having sex with them. this isn't a good thing, or a bad thing, it's simply that many men have an ability -- and it is exciting, and sexy, and a fantasy -- to look at someone and see their sexuality, in a very carnal way, in almost an instant. remember the Sex and the City episode when Carrie and Charlotte sit in a sidewalk cafe and watch men go by and say whether or not they'd sleep with them? i think men do this a lot. and it's totally fleeting. and not in any way, shape, or form a sign that the woman he's walking down the street with is in any way lacking in any quality that he finds important. i think it's simply a function of how men's brains and sexual equipment are wired a bit differently.
 
i don't see what some people's problem with this thread is. it's all in good fun. like irvine said....it's the same deal as with dan savage, ann landers, etc. the advice here is not set up to be set in stone correct. it's just a bunch of women and some men looking for advice re: current situations in love life....nothing more nothing less.

who outta of all of us doesn't consult someone else regarding our love lives or lack there of??? yes...if your in the situation you are probably one of the best people to figure otu what's going on but sometimes your just too involved in the drama of it all you can't see straight and that's where an unbiased objective opinion can help. everyone here has a mind of their own and at the end of the day do what they want or what they think is best and anything said here won't change someones mind.

so that being said...leave it be. i'm having a great time reading this thread. keep it up irvine and if i come up with a question to ask i'll definately post it here. you have already answered the one that i had already. :up:
 
AvsGirl41 said:


Well, there I have to stop you and say this is a real misunderstanding of our characters. Neither of us think this at all, or imagine anyone meets Mr. Right in a club or a bar. The only thing I hope to get in a bar is a free drink. And...well, I never do, but whatever. :wink: What I meant, rather, was that most of the people we know seem to actually end up with something fairly reliable (even if only for a month or two) after the same round of phone calls, movies, coffee bars, etc., that Sarah did. I'm not saying that everyone does, or that no one gets shunned after doing the rounds...does anyone really expect happily ever after?

I think what it boils down to is "emotional fuckwittage." If things were kept more casual, let's-feel-things-out, no implications, I would say she'd blown things out of proportion, but to jump into full blown, all-night conversations and bags of candy....and then to decide there's no spark?

There has to be more to it!

I should add, I'm not trying to seem defensive or anything, I'm just puzzled as to how the signals get *so* crossed.


i'm sorry if it came across that i missed the point. i don't think you and your sister go out to clubs in order to (only) meet men. the overarching point i was trying to make is that contrived meeting places -- like a bar, a club, a coffee house, even match.com -- often don't have very high success rates. generally speaking, i think the best way to meet people is through other friends.

as for your sister, i really don't know. it does sound like this guy was the one who was confused, perhaps there was another girl he was playing along as well, and suddenly made a decision and that was that. i think many men -- and this is where the expression "a player" comes along -- try to keep their options open, so to speak, and to lead a few girls along before making a decision (or never making a decision). gay men are notorious for this -- having a boyfriend, perhaps another fuck buddy, perhaps a trick, perhaps a soul mate, etc., and giving off "no i'm really interested" romantic signals that aren't sincere, but actually really rather manipulative.

how to know when a man is doing this? i can't answer that ... i have the sneaking suspicion that i was one of two or three people once upon a time when i was dating someone, and then it seemed like he chose me because he was suddenly much more available, both to do things as well as emotionally. of course, i only realize this now in retrospect, but one lives and learns ...
 
anitram said:
Irvine, do you think some men suffer from the Peter Pan syndrome and will never grow up? The reason I ask is that aside from the guys who seem like super-serious old souls, it seems that once men start to get older, they settle down or basically stop living their lives like they're 18 year old college freshmen. And then you have the group who seemingly never grow up. I worked with one who at the age of 29 went partying with college girls, and couldn't remember a single moment between Thursday-Saturday night because he was sauced out of his mind. And otherwise, he was relatively successful, he was well educated, had a good job as a legal editor, was attractive, intelligent and so on. But when you heard the stories of his weekends or saw how he behaved in a social setting, it was just pathetic for a guy of his age, at least to me.



well, your friend in particular sounds like he might have a bit of a drinking problem, though i don't think it's totally inappropriate for a 29 year old to be hanging out with college-aged kids. if he were 40, that would be different. i like the 10 year rule -- you should date within 10 years of your age. for the most part. there are of course exceptions, particularly as people start to get older, but for the majority of people in their 20s and 30s, i think 10 years is a good rule of thumb because you're dating people who are at the same general place in life as you are. this does not mean, though, that if you are 24 you can date a 14 year old. it starts at 18. ;)

as for your specific questions ... i'm not totally sure, but i do know that the group of people who tend to have the shortest lifespans are unmarried men, whereas the people with the longest lifespans are unmarried women. go figure. i think the Peter Pan complex stems from a fear that youth is slipping away. that the days of partying hard are gone. a refusal to ever stop the party. i think college-aged men have not only a license, but an expectation, that they should be drunk most weekends, trying to hook up with every girl they lay eyes on, fill-in-frat-boy-sterotype-here, etc., and how well they fufill these tasks are a measure -- in the eyes of their friends -- of just how much of a man they are. i also think that men are less concerned, in general, with their behavior when drunk, and the consequences of being very drunk are lesser -- i.e., there's no "whore/slut" label that men have to worry about, usually -- than they are for women. i also wonder if he might not enjoy the attention and ego-stroking he might be getting from women who are obviously younger than him who are paying attention to him. he probably has more money than they do (since they're in college), and since he has more experience in life he might come off, in his mind at least, as wise and knowing. it also startles me how, even amongst my peer group (26-29) that it's seen as a sign of major stud-dom to be dating a 21 year old. in fact, one of my friends is dating Larry Hagman's (JR of "Dallas") 21 year old granddaughter. and though he gets looks, it's more of a "oh, you devil!" look, whereas the double-standard for women might be, "don't let yourself be taken advantage of, dear."

other than settling down because you are in a relationship with someone, what incentives are there for a man to stop the party? i can't think of any incentives (though i can think of consequences ... such as how much worse hangovers get when you get older ... i used to drink like a fish, and then get up and go swim 6,000 meters at practice when i was 19; these days, i can barely get out of bed if i'm hungover).
 
Why are some men seemingly so blinded by looks/whatever else you want to label it as and can't see what a woman is really like when everyone else who observes the woman can see it-they can't seem to realize that the woman is so fake around them. Maybe they just don't want to realize it, for whatever reason.

Why do nice women always finish last?

Why do some men stop liking you after you assert yourself - about anything really..
 
I don't know about the 10 year age difference thing, Irvine. I think it's fine if you are 49 and 39, because then life experience is more equal. But to me, the difference between 19 and 29 is HUGE. And although I think it's possible to have successful relationships with a significant age difference, when I see a 29/30 year old guy in a bar surrounded by a dozen college freshmen, to me that looks like "gonna get a piece of ass tonight" and not "I might have a lot in common with these girls, like our shared love of literature, so why not try dating them."
 
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