A provocative question as usual...

[melon]

And, yet, we don't have a rash of atheists creating a large crime wave. Clearly, the host was oversimplifying the issue.

Melon

 

[BrownEyedBoy]

I think some people are mixing up the belief in God and religion.

You can believe in God and not participate in any religion. Honestly, I agree with what Bono says aout religion. Religions stir up hate,catalyze that we judge other people, and separate us whereas God brings us together.

 

[daygloeyes2]

I think some people are mixing up the belief in God and religion.

You can believe in God and not participate in any religion. Honestly, I agree with what Bono says aout religion. Religions stir up hate,catalyze that we judge other people, and separate us whereas God brings us together.

That's how I feel. I'm not a fan of religion. But I do believe in God.

 

[BonosSaint]

I had to think a lot about your thread, Macfist. Although I have run into a few evangelizing athiests who try to convert you to their nonbelief, I think most athiests I've met would have no answer to the benefits of athiesm. To them, it is a nonissue. They just do not believe.

 

[A_Wanderer]

Well it has not done anything for me one way or the other, and I have no problem with that.

 

[A_Wanderer]

I was listening to the radio some time ago, and the host hypothesized that if there were a way that science could prove without a shadow of a doubt that God didn't exist, the very day they announced their findings would be the day masses of people started looting stores and breaking laws, because they'd have no reason not to. If it were true that there were absolutely no God, no higher being to be held accountable to, no ramifications upon death...why not be selfish?

-Miggy D

Because you want to work for the betterment of mankind and the preservation of society.

 

[indra]

I had to think a lot about your thread, Macfist. Although I have run into a few evangelizing athiests who try to convert you to their nonbelief, I think most athiests I've met would have no answer to the benefits of athiesm. To them, it is a nonissue. They just do not believe.

Agreed.

Atheism (and agnosticism) isn't something one believes in order to "get" something. They aren't reward based beliefs.

But I do like being able to call myself a heathen, so maybe that's my benefit (although I'm agnostic, not atheistic).

 

[BonosSaint]

Agreed.

Atheism (and agnosticism) isn't something one believes in order to "get" something. They aren't reward based beliefs.

But I do like being able to call myself a heathen, so maybe that's my benefit (although I'm agnostic, not atheistic).

Heathen. I like that.

 

[trevster2k]

My grandparents thought I was a heathen or as they would pronounce it, heden. My history with religion is crazy, I went to a Catholic school until Grade 5, Pentecostal school until graduation, baptized as a baby under United, went to Sunday school at Pentecostal and Salvation Army Church, one set of grandparents were strict Salvation Army, one of my best friend's was Muslim and my dad is a Buddhist. So like many others, I was exposed to quite a bit of doctrine. But I didn't go for it.

Atheism hasn't done anything for me and I haven't benefited from it in tangible terms. I am not looking for a reward for my non-belief in God or deitys. I just live my life with the concept that by living a decent life, the world will be a better place. What I consider to be decent behaviour is derived from life experiences and yes, has similarities to some religious doctrine but not all.

I read this a few years back:

"the world will be a better place if we all believe whatever we wish, but behave as if there is no deity to sort out humankind's problems"

I like this idea since as mentioned by previous posters, many conflicts have arised which are rooted in differences in religion and beliefs. But if our resources were used to help each other instead of trying to influence or conquer than perhaps the earth would be a much better place.

I guess one benefit is I save money during the religious holidays, I don't buy all the religious paraphenalia either, sleep in on days like Saturday and Sunday, eat whatever I want with no rules attached, dress however I want, be friends with whomever I wish, and evaluate life based on the merits of the situation or person, not on what someone or some writings tell me to do. Actually, these aren't benefits persay, more like things I don't have to do in my life as a result of being an atheist.

 

[Miggy D]

"the world will be a better place if we all believe whatever we wish, but behave as if there is no deity to sort out humankind's problems"

I like this idea since as mentioned by previous posters, many conflicts have arised which are rooted in differences in religion and beliefs. But if our resources were used to help each other instead of trying to influence or conquer than perhaps the earth would be a much better place.

I guess one benefit is I save money during the religious holidays, I don't buy all the religious paraphenalia either, sleep in on days like Saturday and Sunday, eat whatever I want with no rules attached, dress however I want, be friends with whomever I wish, and evaluate life based on the merits of the situation or person, not on what someone or some writings tell me to do. Actually, these aren't benefits persay, more like things I don't have to do in my life as a result of being an atheist.

It's important to remember that the same religions that were used to justify wars were also the inspiration for immeasurable amounts of goodwill and charity.

Some people paint religions up to be these horrible institutions that have driven people to do horrific things. Yes - people have bastardized the teachings of religions in the name of greed and power. But religion has also been the source of inspiration for artists and philanthropists the world over.

-Miggy

 

[trevster2k]

I didn't mean to insinuate that religion is bad, sorry if it came across that way. I think that religion has many positive effects on people which help them live better lives, deal with sorrow and yes, inspire great achievements. Like I said, not for me.

The comment about behaviour stems from an attempt to see people not act like the afterlife is more important than our lives we live each and every day. Some actions are in total contradiction of what is good for humankind or intolerant because it goes against a specific religious doctrine. I wasn't specifically referring to wars although there have been some of those too, I meant conflicts like differing opinions.

 

[ILuvLarryMullen]

I was listening to the radio some time ago, and the host hypothesized that if there were a way that science could prove without a shadow of a doubt that God didn't exist, the very day they announced their findings would be the day masses of people started looting stores and breaking laws, because they'd have no reason not to. If it were true that there were absolutely no God, no higher being to be held accountable to, no ramifications upon death...why not be selfish?

-Miggy D

Why not be selfish? Because you still have the ability to empathize. Some people lack this ability, but I think they are fairly evenly divided amongst the religious and the non-religious. Maybe some people would commit crimes if they suddenly discovered that there was no god, but only if there were no consequences. The law would still be there to punish them. If you had a society of atheists, it wouldn't suddenly be a lawless society, everyone has a stake in having a functional society where they can feel safe.

Religion doesn't = morality or having a concious. I am an agnostic and I think that I have pretty high moral standards, it all boils down to the fact that I have empathy for others and foresight to protect my physical/emotional integrity. You don't have to believe in Jesus' divinity in order to appreciate and follow the golden rule.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

trevster2k:
I guess one benefit is I save money during the religious holidays, I don't buy all the religious paraphenalia either, sleep in on days like Saturday and Sunday, eat whatever I want with no rules attached, dress however I want, be friends with whomever I wish, and evaluate life based on the merits of the situation or person, not on what someone or some writings tell me to do. Actually, these aren't benefits persay, more like things I don't have to do in my life as a result of being an atheist.

I suppose that is mildly comforting in a way that you don't feel obligated.

Miggy D
It's important to remember that the same religions that were used to justify wars were also the inspiration for immeasurable amounts of goodwill and charity.

Some people paint religions up to be these horrible institutions that have driven people to do horrific things. Yes - people have bastardized the teachings of religions in the name of greed and power. But religion has also been the source of inspiration for artists and philanthropists the world over.

Excellent points.

 

[Saracene]

I was listening to the radio some time ago, and the host hypothesized that if there were a way that science could prove without a shadow of a doubt that God didn't exist, the very day they announced their findings would be the day masses of people started looting stores and breaking laws, because they'd have no reason not to. If it were true that there were absolutely no God, no higher being to be held accountable to, no ramifications upon death...why not be selfish?

Not that I find this scenario at all realistic, but wouldn't it be more likely that the people who start all the looting and general misbehaving would not in fact be the atheists, but the believers who had the rug pulled from under their feet? After all, science wouldn't be telling atheists anything they didn't know already; if you don't believe there's a higher being you're accountable to, the discovery that there's no God isn't going to shake -your- world.

As for the reasons why anyone would feel better about absence of God... well perhaps many people don't automatically think of God as loving and aren't sure what God's plans towards mankind might be.

 

[Miggy D]

Not that I find this scenario at all realistic, but wouldn't it be more likely that the people who start all the looting and general misbehaving would not in fact be the atheists, but the believers who had the rug pulled from under their feet? After all, science wouldn't be telling atheists anything they didn't know already; if you don't believe there's a higher being you're accountable to, the discovery that there's no God isn't going to shake -your- world.

I never insinuated that the long-time atheists would be the ones committing the crimes. The revelation that God did not exist would not be a shock to them. I was obviously referencing the believers.

-Miggy D

 

[80sU2isBest]

I guess one benefit is I save money during the religious holidays, I don't buy all the religious paraphenalia either, sleep in on days like Saturday and Sunday, eat whatever I want with no rules attached, dress however I want, be friends with whomever I wish, and evaluate life based on the merits of the situation or person, not on what someone or some writings tell me to do. Actually, these aren't benefits persay, more like things I don't have to do in my life as a result of being an atheist.

Unless by "religious paraphenalia" you mean Bibles, I don't buy them either, I sleep in on Saturday and until 9 on Sunday, I eat whatever I want with no rules attached, dress however I want, be friends with whomever I wish.

And I'm a Christian - a conservative Christian at that.

 

[BorderGirl]

Like Bono I believe that God exists. I too wait for Him to walk into my room;ie. inspire my life. Because of free will he allows us to invite Him even though he constantly seeks us.
Bidden or not, God is present.
We see God in the faces of those we meet everyday. It's in this reflection of the divine that we are given an opportunity to serve Him.
Some things to ponder as far as organized religion-
What if God gave a party and nobody came? God is in our communities and these communities;our churches, come together to give praise to God as well as to offer leadership and recognize that we do nothing on our own.

 

[indra]

Unless by "religious paraphenalia" you mean Bibles, I don't buy them either, I sleep in on Saturday and until 9 on Sunday, I eat whatever I want with no rules attached, dress however I want, be friends with whomever I wish.

And I'm a Christian - a conservative Christian at that.

Slacker!

 

[madroseka]

I say why not believe in something. In doesn't necessarily have to be "God" so to speak. If you do believe in something and then you die and you were right then you reap the benefits. If you die and there is no God, then so what? Your dead and it doesnt matter. What did you lose?

 

[Saracene]

I'm sure God would distinguish between genuine belief and just-in-case insurance belief.

 

[A_Wanderer]

So pascals wager will get your legs broken

 

[Saracene]

"Suggestion was put forward by the Quirmian philosopher Ventre, who said, 'Possibly the gods exist, and possibly they do not. So why not believe in them in any case? If it's all true you'll go to a lovely place when you die, and if it isn't then you've lost nothing, right?' When he died he woke up in a circle of gods holding nasty-looking sticks and one of them said, 'We're going to show you what we think of Mr Clever Dick in these parts..."

- "Hogfather"

 

[Anthony]

Ah, Mr. Pratchett.

Ant.

 

[AcrobatMan]

rather the question should be ..what is that atheism hasnt given the atheists ?

the answer would be a long one...

- war
- terrorism
- prejudice
- irrationality
- fear
- set of rules
- head-ache ( thanks Melon!! )
- wasting time doing useless things
- stubborness
- delusion of mind
- belief in vague stories
- belief in unproven stuff
- false comfort

 

[Miggy D]

rather the question should be ..what is that atheism hasnt given the atheists ?

the answer would be a long one...

- war
- terrorism
- prejudice
- irrationality
- fear
- set of rules
- head-ache ( thanks Melon!! )
- wasting time doing useless things
- stubborness
- delusion of mind
- belief in vague stories
- belief in unproven stuff
- false comfort

I'm agnostic, and I must say - this list is total bullshit.

War can be caused by religion, yes, but it can also be caused by a multitude of other things. One only needs to open up a history book to realize this.

Terrorism can be caused by people for reasons other than religion. Again - read a book.

Prejudice? Atheists live without prejudice? I'm not sure if you got the memo, but religion really isn't the root of prejudice. In fact, Christianity (and other religions, but I was once a Christian so I'm using this as a reference) promotes the equality of all peoples. The advent of religion did not signal the beginning of racism, for instance. You can say some have abused religion to damn people of other religions, but racism is something entirely of its own. We are all prejudiced - religious and non-religious alike.

Irrationality? All humans are capable of irrational thoughts. You'd have to be awfully conceited to think you'd never had an irrational idea.

Fear? Are you just writing words down now? Atheists are without fear? A practicing Christian can take comfort in their belief that they are safe from death. An atheist believes that death brings an end. I would think an atheist would fear death more than a practicing Christian. Death scares me shitless. There are many things besides death that scare me. Will I succeed in life? Will I ever really find my soul mate? Will I be a good father? Hell - will I be able to find a job when I move down to LA in a few months? Everyone has fears.

Wasting time doing useless things? You mean atheists are safe from posting ignorant rhetoric on the internet when they could be outside flying a kite or painting a picture? Thank goodness!

Atheists aren't stubborn? Stubborness is a personality trait, pal. I've met stubborn believers and non-believers alike. You don't eliminate stubbornness by eliminating religion. A person can be stubborn about a whole host of topics - religion, movies, food, clothing, politics. And stubbornness can sometimes be a good thing. What about when you're actually right? Isn't it a good thing to be stubborn in the face of adversity? Think about some of history's greatest leaders - Martin Luther King, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Abraham Lincoln, Ghandi. Stubbornness can be a pain in the ass, but it can also be a great quality, and its presence, or absence, is not dictated by religion.

Everyone is capable of 'delusion of mind.' I've met quite a few people with delusions of grandeur. There are all kinds of delusions and we have them all the time. I'm sure you're under the delusion that your post was intelligent and thoughtful.

Belief in vague stories? Have you even cracked the the Bible? Say what you want about the it - true, untrue, whatever, but many of its stories are quite detailed and well-written. I don't think you're entirely sure what the word 'vague' means. If someone wrote, 'a man rode a horse to a town,' that would be vague. The Bible often gives specific details and elaborate backstory to its characters and events. Disagree with the validity of the stories, and disagree with the theology, but calling the stories 'vague' shows an ignorance of the text. I've studied the Bible objectively in school from a strict literary standpoint and it is an impressive historical document. It's a good idea to at least read a book before you comment on its literary merits.

Belief in unproven stuff? I believe in evolution but I still recognize that it is called 'evolutionary theory' and not 'evolutionary fact.' Keep that in mind. There are many things humans believe in, religious or not, that are not always backed up by concrete, unrefutable evidence.

What exactly is false comfort? Christians believe they're right. Muslims believe they're right. Jews believe they're right. Atheists believe they're right as well. Atheists take comfort in the fact that there is no God and what they do here has no consequence in the afterlife. But surely atheists at least entertain the possibility that they may be just as wrong as the Christians, Muslims, Jews, etc. Just because one believes there is no God does not make it true. Those with a religion have looked at their literature and the world and decided that there is a God. Atheists have done the same and decided the opposite. We won't know who's right until we kick the bucket.


You do atheists and believers alike a disservice with these kinds of posts. If you're going to comment on this forum, please try and refrain from writing something so ignorant and offensive next time.

-Migdilio

 

[AcrobatMan]

Your inference is extremely poor.

Unfortunately I cannot do anything about it.

My post is not offensive - I am extremely sorry if you find it offensive. My intention wasnt that anyway.

Does this mean you agree with the "headache" thing ? I want to make things clear and not assume as you have unfortunately done.

Sorry Miggy... but I didnt mean to offend you or anyone.

 

[trevster2k]

Hey Miggy,

I think you should tone it down. Acrobat Man posted an opinion not a thesis for critical analysis. It is a bullet list of their thoughts, not exposition looking for validation by others. People just post their thoughts and don't expect to be ridiculed or insulted for these thoughts. If you don't agree with Acrobat's post, fine, no need to insult the person's intelligence or be condescending. If we all went around criticizing each other for what is opinion, no one would post anything or we would all be banned from the site. Debate is wonderful but ridicule of another person's ideas is not cool.

 

[Angela Harlem]

Blanket denial of God/s is comforting. It removes doubt and questions. It is one solution as opposed to religion bringing many unknowns. It is black and white as opposed to greys. It puts all onus back on individuals, rather than 'right' for sake of something else. It comes guilt free, and has no accusations or judging of self or other people.

 

[AcrobatMan]

insult the person's intelligence

I dont think he or she is doing this !

I dont feel insulted...just a little sorry

Here is a prayer

"God give everyone the wisdom to understand things better "

 

[Se7en]

as others have mentioned, i don't think atheism is supposed to provide benefits or be a comfort.