All "Is U2 Breaking Up" Discussion

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It seems that Bono is artificially trying to manufacture a crisis to launch another spurt of creative development, but it doesn't happen like that.

The way I see it, the crisis itself is not artificial. However, the crisis Bono is seeing is the wrong one.

The real crisis, of course, is that U2 have failed to reinvent themselves when everyone was expecting them to. ATYCLB and HTDAAB were not what fans were hoping for and NLOTH took only a marginal step in the direction of reinvention. Fans, I think, now want to hear something genuinely new.

The crisis Bono is seeing, however, is one of 'relevance', of airplay and of U2's music not being played in clubs. I fear that the answer to that 'crisis' can only be a movement further away from reinvention and towards U2 coming to sound like Jay-Z or Rihanna.

On the upside, I agree with most here that U2 are not likely to quit at this moment; on the downside, I fear that if Bono does not start seeing the real problem, the new album will make people wish they'd quit after all.
 
There's a new USA Today interview as well with more of the latest round of Bono existential angst:

"We don't know what we want to do next," he says. "It feels a bit like 1990, where we have to dig a very deep well. I'm very proud of our last album. It was very rich. I want to go airborne on the next one. But we have to have very good reasons to put out a new U2 album. There are 150 million of them out there. Why would anyone want another one? I don't know if it will be a year or five years."

All this talk about 1990 seems a little too contrived to coincide w/the AB reissue, IMO. And if it's genuine, it sounds to me like Bono's fighting the last war, and making the (wrong) assumption that what worked 20 years ago will work now.

And the Q magazine interview has a quote about getting songs "on the radio" that is sure to make a lot of fans grumpy (though I'm not one of them):
I don't know if it's possible for us to make something current that is meaningful, not just to our audience but to the times we live in. But that's kind of the job for me and I'm not ready to give it up. I think it's unlikely that we'll pull it off, but then so has the last 20 years been unlikely.

Getting songs played on the radio is very important to us. I'm not sure that we'll ever be number 1 on the pop charts [again], but we need songs that go outside of our audience.

Anyone who's followed U2 at all should not be surprised by this second quote. I think it's the most genuine thing Bono's said, because it reflects how they've operated pretty much form the beginning. Whether what he wants is achievable is another matter.

Finally, for those wishing to hear the Songs of Ascent stuff anytime soon:

Bono: "We thought there was more material left over from No Line... we now feel a long way from that material."

Anyway, all this has got to be driving the rest of the lads crazy (especially Larry). Luckily, I doubt this Bonophase will last much longer than any of his other public displays of crisis. And this one feels half somewhat genuine and half manufactured.

I really wish they'd just go away and not let us hear from them for a while, which will hopefully happen after this Achtung Baby stuff is done. We'll still be here when they've got it all together and are ready to come back.
 
The real crisis, of course, is that U2 have failed to reinvent themselves when everyone was expecting them to. ATYCLB and HTDAAB were not what fans were hoping for

I never understood this. How can you possibly think you know how all U2 fans hope for? I know quite a few fans where ATYCLB was exactly what they were hoping for... :shrug:

I fear that the answer to that 'crisis' can only be a movement further away from reinvention and towards U2 coming to sound like Jay-Z or Rihanna.
Well sounding like Jay-Z or Rihanna would be quite a reinvention now wouldn't it?

I think what you mean is a reinvention that YOU are envisioning.

I never understood this obsession with constant reinvention. Most bands get maybe one good reinvention in their career. Are you doing reinvention for reinvention sake? Are you reinventing to the point where your catalog is so disjointed that there is no cohesiveness?

What U2 really needs to do is just go in the studio make an album without thinking about the outcome. Just make an album of those MOS type of songs, the ones that "just come together", and then step away from them, don't tinker with them too long and record as many as you can. Don't think about hits, don't think about how you'll play it live(just yet), don't think about the overall album. Just record. See what you have and shape the album around that...

And stick with Danger Mouse :wink:
 
All this Bono talk about "we feel like it's 1990" again is pure PR BS because it's simply not true, it just feels cool saying it now and it will probably be his catch phrase for the next year or so.

In 1990 they had a real crisis because band members were on different ends where to go musically, they were 30 year olds somewhat on the road and unsettled, Edge's marriage was breaking up.

Everyone has a family now, they are living fantastic lives, they still have Larry who cautions them NOT to go all 1997.

But that's it. Their state of mind is nowhere near 1990 and all this talk will be gone before the next album.
 
I never understood this. How can you possibly think you know how all U2 fans hope for? I know quite a few fans where ATYCLB was exactly what they were hoping for.

This. I had been a casual fan for a while, but ATYCLB was the album that really turned me on and Elevation was my first tour.

Come on! Fans that say they don't like this album are like Beatles fans saying they don't like the White album. It's the F'n bloody Beatles White album.

Not to say Bono is disingenuous, but much of this angst is for publicity sake. Look at the timing.
 
Come on! Fans that say they don't like this album are like Beatles fans saying they don't like the White album. It's the F'n bloody Beatles White album.

Hey, I respect your right to like the album, but the Beatles never released any songs as crap as New York or Grace. IMO ATYCLB WAS their weakest album ever. I don't think you'll run into any Beatles fans who'll say that about the White album.
 
Bono: Man in crisis

:doh:

Seriously, he might have a depression and should go to see a therapist. I mean that in a good way. Everyone has phases like this. BUT it's not healthy to run around making the same annoying comments over and over again.

Unless you're promoting an upcoming album, even if it's just a re-release, of course.

He's not stupid.


The only thing I REALLY don't like is the comment about the NLOTH leftovers. This can't be true. I think they are just looking for an excuse not to put out Songs Of Ascent. Next thing they'll come up with will be another story about Edge losing the tapes.
 
I never understood this. How can you possibly think you know how all U2 fans hope for? I know quite a few fans where ATYCLB was exactly what they were hoping for... :shrug:

Well, I didn't say all fans, did I? On this message board, certainly, fans tend not to be very positive about ATYCLB and, to a lesser extent, HTDAAB. That is not to say ATYCLB was a disappointment for all fans, of course. Reading U2-related message boards, talking to fans and reading the papers I just get the idea that the last three albums have not exactly been the big reinvention some had been anticipating after Pop.
Well sounding like Jay-Z or Rihanna would be quite a reinvention now wouldn't it?
In my opinion, it would be more like a continuation of a trend set in 2000.
I think what you mean is a reinvention that YOU are envisioning.
Fair enough.
I never understood this obsession with constant reinvention. Most bands get maybe one good reinvention in their career. Are you doing reinvention for reinvention sake? Are you reinventing to the point where your catalog is so disjointed that there is no cohesiveness?
There's no need for constant reinvention. There is need for reinvention when things go downhill in one way or another.
In 1990 there was a need for reinvention because the success of the American / back-to-the-roots approach was fading. TJT had made them the biggest band in the world, but they lost critical acclaim and self-confidence after R&H.
In 2000 there was a need for reinvention because the continued exploration of electronic music didn't bring continued critical and commercial success. Pop received a mixed critical reaction and is by no means one of their best-selling albums.
And now, in 2011, I feel there is a need for reinvention because I reckon this quest for commercial success is actually inhibiting the artistic creativity of the band. Sure, if you want to be (and remain) a big rock band, you cannot ignore the fact that you will have to sell albums in order to do that. But that shouldn't keep you from experimenting and following your musical instinct.
In U2 by U2, Larry says about AB: "it didn't matter if it was successful or if people didn't like it, we thought this is great. And if this is the last record we make, it would be a great way to go."
What a contrast to Bono's remarks in last Saturday's Irish Times: '[Bono] wonders whether U2 can still be relevant. “We can play the big music in big places. But whether we can play the small music, meaning for the small speakers of the radio or clubs, where people are living, remains to be seen,” he says. “I think we have to go to that place again if we’re to survive”' and in Hot Press: "the reason we didn’t put out Songs Of Ascent was we felt that the next thing that people need to hear from U2 is not an art project".
After making AB, U2 basically said: we've done something quite experimental and we think it's great, and if the people don't like it, too bad. Now they're saying: we've got to make music that's successful on radio stations and in clubs, so although we've done some experimental stuff lately, we're not going to put that out.
That's not the right way to go, in my opinion.
What U2 really needs to do is just go in the studio make an album without thinking about the outcome. Just make an album of those MOS type of songs, the ones that "just come together", and then step away from them, don't tinker with them too long and record as many as you can.
I'm not sure "don't tinker with them too long" is such a good advice. Many of U2's most beloved songs actually took quite a long time to get right. Brian Eno famously tried to erase the Streets tape out of frustration over the time it took to make something out of it that sounded good.
 
WalkOn21 said:
Well, I didn't say all fans, did I? On this message board, certainly, fans tend not to be very positive about ATYCLB and, to a lesser extent, HTDAAB. That is not to say ATYCLB was a disappointment for all fans, of course. Reading U2-related message boards, talking to fans and reading the papers I just get the idea that the last three albums have not exactly been the big reinvention some had been anticipating after Pop.

In my opinion, it would be more like a continuation of a trend set in 2000.

Fair enough.

There's no need for constant reinvention. There is need for reinvention when things go downhill in one way or another.
In 1990 there was a need for reinvention because the success of the American / back-to-the-roots approach was fading. TJT had made them the biggest band in the world, but they lost critical acclaim and self-confidence after R&H.
In 2000 there was a need for reinvention because the continued exploration of electronic music didn't bring continued critical and commercial success. Pop received a mixed critical reaction and is by no means one of their best-selling albums.
And now, in 2011, I feel there is a need for reinvention because I reckon this quest for commercial success is actually inhibiting the artistic creativity of the band. Sure, if you want to be (and remain) a big rock band, you cannot ignore the fact that you will have to sell albums in order to do that. But that shouldn't keep you from experimenting and following your musical instinct.
In U2 by U2, Larry says about AB: "it didn't matter if it was successful or if people didn't like it, we thought this is great. And if this is the last record we make, it would be a great way to go."
What a contrast to Bono's remarks in last Saturday's Irish Times: '[Bono] wonders whether U2 can still be relevant. “We can play the big music in big places. But whether we can play the small music, meaning for the small speakers of the radio or clubs, where people are living, remains to be seen,” he says. “I think we have to go to that place again if we’re to survive”' and in Hot Press: "the reason we didn’t put out Songs Of Ascent was we felt that the next thing that people need to hear from U2 is not an art project".
After making AB, U2 basically said: we've done something quite experimental and we think it's great, and if the people don't like it, too bad. Now they're saying: we've got to make music that's successful on radio stations and in clubs, so although we've done some experimental stuff lately, we're not going to put that out.
That's not the right way to go, in my opinion.
I'm not sure "don't tinker with them too long" is such a good advice. Many of U2's most beloved songs actually took quite a long time to get right. Brian Eno famously tried to erase the Streets tape out of frustration over the time it took to make something out of it that sounded good.

I'm perplexed by how you think u2 sounds like JayZ :huh:

It's real easy to say you didn't care about the success after the fact, don't fall for that, of course they cared.

I think u2 have become better musicians and writers since the day of the JT sessions, and they need to realize and have faith in that. These days when they spend too long on a song we end up with something watered down and too consciously thought out.
 
he could be saying it to prepare the U2 fans in case they all do decide to call it a day in the near future, rather than a shock announcement.


Of course it all depends, given time anything can happen, but perhaps these guys do feel like they've given us their best, and feel they cannot go beyond the last album and their latest massive tour, esp the fact they have families they prob wanna settle down and devote time to.

Keep in mind, though, that Bono is the only one questioning U2's relevance; the rest of the band has been telling him to shut up about it (see Rolling Stone article). If they were all agreeing with Bono's bummer sound bytes, then I'd be concerned.

Also, we've had three articles now (RS, Q, and USA Today) where Bono seems to be making a specific effort to bring the issue up again each time. Either he's really depressed, or it is a PR thing.
 
Hey, I respect your right to like the album, but the Beatles never released any songs as crap as New York or Grace. IMO ATYCLB WAS their weakest album ever. I don't think you'll run into any Beatles fans who'll say that about the White album.

Yes, the Beatles have weaker songs than NY or Grace. And ATYCLB is not their weakest effort.

“We can play the big music in big places. But whether we can play the small music, meaning for the small speakers of the radio or clubs, where people are living, remains to be seen,” he says. “I think we have to go to that place again if we’re to survive”' and in Hot Press: "the reason we didn’t put out Songs Of Ascent was we felt that the next thing that people need to hear from U2 is not an art project".

Those are all valid points from post-"best record/we need the hits/11 singles" ATYCLB/Bomb era U2.

The 1990 comparison stands. Except it's one thing to reinvent yourself in your early 30's, and quite another in your 50's.
 
I'm perplexed by how you think u2 sounds like JayZ :huh:

That's not quite what I am saying. Since 2000 U2 have (purposely) pursued a more mainstream style of music. I was using Jay-Z and Rihanna as a metonymy for present-day mainstream music. What I meant is that U2 becoming even more mainstream than they already are is not a reinvention, it's a continuation of something that began in 2000.

It's real easy to say you didn't care about the success after the fact, don't fall for that, of course they cared.
There's a difference between not caring for success and success not being your main goal while making an album. Of course they cared for success: fading success in the late 80s was a major reason for the early 90s reinvention. But with AB, their main strategy seemed to be "let's experiment with these exciting new things and see if this will be a commercial success". That's quite different from what Bono seems to be saying now: "let's see what will get us airplay and model our next album after that".
I think u2 have become better musicians and writers since the day of the JT sessions, and they need to realize and have faith in that. These days when they spend too long on a song we end up with something watered down and too consciously thought out.
Wouldn't you say the realization that good music doesn't have to be thought through too much and shouldn't be over-produced is a reinvention in itself?
 
That's not quite what I am saying. Since 2000 U2 have (purposely) pursued a more mainstream style of music. I was using Jay-Z and Rihanna as a metonymy for present-day mainstream music.

Rhianna maybe, Jay-Z no.

There's a difference between not caring for success and success not being your main goal while making an album. Of course they cared for success: fading success in the late 80s was a major reason for the early 90s reinvention. But with AB, their main strategy seemed to be "let's experiment with these exciting new things and see if this will be a commercial success". That's quite different from what Bono seems to be saying now: "let's see what will get us airplay and model our next album after that".
How does one see what will get them airplay before they release it? And how does one look at NLOTH and think that's how they approached that album? They had one song that sounded like it may have been an obvious hit, and it wasn't.
Wouldn't you say the realization that good music doesn't have to be thought through too much and shouldn't be over-produced is a reinvention in itself?
No. At least not the reinvention that people in here are talking about or that you are talking about... They could approach the next album that way and it still may have the same sounds of NLOTH. You wouldn't have called AB a reinvention if Wild Horses was the same exact song except recorded with the same guitar sounds of Rattle and Hum.
 
By copying the musical style of present-day artists who are getting airplay.

I think you are overstating the quality of present day radio airplay.
Not to say there isn't some good music out ther but there are so many groups that have obivious U2 influence and otherwise there's only a few others that are worth listening to.
imo, of course. :D


Bono: Man in crisis

:doh:
Next thing they'll come up with will be another story about Edge losing the tapes.

:applaud:
or they were hacked and erased by a virus. :wink:
 
It's very possible that this is all a PR thing. Non-U2 sites are posting articles with headlines like "U2 going on indefinite hiatus" and "U2 likely to break up in 2012". Obviously these people are taking Bono at his word (never a good idea) and then exaggerating to make for attention grabbing headlines. But this is going to get people wondering if U2 is really over...

then BAM! They release a great new album. Bono starts talking about how U2 almost broke up and how they found their reasons to make another album, they found what they were looking for, and figured out how to be relevant while still being true to themselves, etc etc. The first single is a carefully chosen gem, and the album is a hit, etc.

(at least this is what I'm going to tell myself... I lost REM this year, and it just made me realize how much I don't want U2 to retire yet)
 
^ Agreed. I believe they'll release another album in 2013 with a world tour in 2014-15, and then another album/tour cycle at the end of this decade, to end their touring contract with LiveNation, and end their career at a nice, neat 40 year mark, with the band members being at or around 60.

At this point we only have 2 new albums left, and 3 at absolute BEST case scenario. Then, hopefully, the vaults will be opened!
 
It's very possible that this is all a PR thing. Non-U2 sites are posting articles with headlines like "U2 going on indefinite hiatus" and "U2 likely to break up in 2012". Obviously these people are taking Bono at his word (never a good idea) and then exaggerating to make for attention grabbing headlines. But this is going to get people wondering if U2 is really over...

then BAM! They release a great new album. Bono starts talking about how U2 almost broke up and how they found their reasons to make another album, they found what they were looking for, and figured out how to be relevant while still being true to themselves, etc etc. The first single is a carefully chosen gem, and the album is a hit, etc.

(at least this is what I'm going to tell myself... I lost REM this year, and it just made me realize how much I don't want U2 to retire yet)

This actually ins't a bad theory. Whether a "great" new album come out of it is of course not a given. And indeed if this is what Bono's doing it would be kind of sad (pathetic, really) that he'd try to replicate the genuine crisis the band was in 20 years ago with a PR stunt now.

I tend to think the band isn't in as much real crisis as Bono is trying to let on....if they were, it wouldn't be this public, and Bono would not be talking so glibly about it. I believe there IS a crisis going on, but it's Bono's, not the bands, and it's all about his own insecurities and need for relevance and has little to do w/what the rest of the lads are thinking.

I can just hear Larry now..."Bono, we love you, but would you please just STFU."
 
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