POP is good, but here's how it could've been great

[OrARoundabout]

I feel confident in saying I'd put POP's lyrics against those of any other album. No contest. Few, if any groaners (though I recognize detractors of The Playboy Mansion don't like the cultural references), light on the cliches (something even JT has in abundance), and the variety of subject matter is extremely impressive

Where on JT are there cliches? Just curious...

 

[namkcuR]

I think the exact opposite. To me, music is so much better now than it was in the late '90s, but to each their own. I have no idea who Hinder is, and I assume Daughtry is the American Idol, right? But no one takes that very seriously. Bands like She Wants Revenge, White Lies, Joanna Newsom, Interpol, Arcade Fire, White Stripes, Of Montreal, Neko Case, the Decemberists, Mars Volta, the Kills, hell, even My Chemical Romance... these seem to eclipse most of what the mid-to-late '90s had to offer.

I'm not saying there weren't good underground bands in the late '90s, like Neutral Milk Hotel, Olivia Tremor Control, Stereolab, et al. There were some good mainstream albums too, like Soft Bulletin and OK Computer. But by and large, I just find today's music to be a lot more interesting than the late '90s. "Californication" was like the last straw for me. I felt like all the alternative bands that I was into in the '80s and '90s were about as interesting as Boston or Foreigner. Except, of course, U2 and Pop.

You don't like RHCP's Californication? I think it's a brilliant album. It's probably my favorite RHCP album a lot of the time.

 

[lazarus]

Where on JT are there cliches? Just curious...

Well, the most obvious example is "slight of hand and twist of fate" which sounds cool but doesn't really mean anything.

 

[allbecauseofu2]

CALI sux???????? how so? rhcp is another band that has reinvented it self once or self since its half hearted attempts at white boy funk in 1984. whats more ironic about it is that, i have been on those message boards, and they have the same exact discussions about rhcp that we have here about u2. they reinvent themselves too much, thier too mainstream,not mainstream enough, thier somehow both, lyrics stink, they don;t stink,. oh, they def have the same gripe about the chili peppers not playing album cuts and older songs. i mean u could cut and paste the posts. and it would fit. and the chili peppers may even be worse. because thier guitarist john frustante, won't play stuff from the dave narravo album One hot minute. oh yea, OHM is the chili peppers POP. the fans will debate OHM forever like POP will be here. hated , loved. they also won;t play really too much from the 80;s at all. They cater too much to mtv and young fans (HEY SOUND FAMILIAR?LOL) you get the idea. anyway, i love californlcation.

 

[Earnie Shavers]

The last 2-3 years of the 90s were atrocious.

 

[ozeeko]

Well, the most obvious example is "slight of hand and twist of fate" which sounds cool but doesn't really mean anything.

At least that sounds good, haha.

I remember Michael Stipe saying in an interview somewhere that he didn't have the slightest clue what he was going on about in the band's early songs. He just liked lyrics that "sounded" good. I agree that it doesn't always have to make sense. But if you can make it sound good, then that's good enough in my opinion.

 

[ozeeko]

CALI sux???????? how so? rhcp is another band that has reinvented it self once or self since its half hearted attempts at white boy funk in 1984. whats more ironic about it is that, i have been on those message boards, and they have the same exact discussions about rhcp that we have here about u2. they reinvent themselves too much, thier too mainstream,not mainstream enough, thier somehow both, lyrics stink, they don;t stink,. oh, they def have the same gripe about the chili peppers not playing album cuts and older songs. i mean u could cut and paste the posts. and it would fit. and the chili peppers may even be worse. because thier guitarist john frustante, won't play stuff from the dave narravo album One hot minute. oh yea, OHM is the chili peppers POP. the fans will debate OHM forever like POP will be here. hated , loved. they also won;t play really too much from the 80;s at all. They cater too much to mtv and young fans (HEY SOUND FAMILIAR?LOL) you get the idea. anyway, i love californlcation.

I willl admit i haven't heard all the last 3 RHCP albums in their entirety. I'm limited to only the singles. But, based on those singles, i have to say that their songwriting skills have greatly diminished. I find their singles to be quite boring these days. It started with Scar Tissue. What a boring ass song.

 

[allbecauseofu2]

listen to thier 80's albums and then get back to me on diminished songwriting skills. i mean i can find enjoyment in thier 80's stuff, but at the same time they were so immature and just way fucked up on bad stuff. the first two albums for sure. i mean they were way behind u2 as far as early periods go. took em 7 years and 5 albums to reach major success. and band changes. they have things in common. but this isn;t one of em. u2 debut FAR FAR above rhcp's debut. commerical and critically.

 

[ozeeko]

listen to thier 80's albums and then get back to me on diminished songwriting skills. i mean i can find enjoyment in thier 80's stuff, but at the same time they were so immature and just way fucked up on bad stuff. the first two albums for sure. i mean they were way behind u2 as far as early periods go. took em 7 years and 5 albums to reach major success. and band changes. they have things in common. but this isn;t one of em. u2 debut FAR FAR above rhcp's debut. commerical and critically.

I'm not a hardcore RHCP fan. I only own Blood Sugar Sex Magic, but i have heard Mother's Milk and One Hot Minute, and both those albums were pretty interesting.

I'll take their zany funk songs about fucking any day over their boring "we're songwriters now" shitty singles they've been putting out for the past decade.

 

[namkcuR]

I'm not a hardcore RHCP fan. I only own Blood Sugar Sex Magic, but i have heard Mother's Milk and One Hot Minute, and both those albums were pretty interesting.

I'll take their zany funk songs about fucking any day over their boring "we're songwriters now" shitty singles they've been putting out for the past decade.

Scar Tissue is gorgeous, imo.

Californication has plenty of funk, imo.

 

[ozeeko]

Scar Tissue is gorgeous, imo.

Californication has plenty of funk, imo.

I'm a little out of my depth on this subject, cuz i don't know the peppers' discography inside and out like U2. But their singles ever since the Californication album have been fricken boring. It's like being dropped in a maze you can't get out of, these songs.

"cut my throat it's all i evahhh" - songs like that, it's like the same banal melodies thruout.

Put any of their post 2000 songs up against "Suck My Kiss". Now that's a damn fine song!

 

[Earnie Shavers]

From '91 on: Blood Sugar Sex Magik >>>> Californication >> One Hot Minute >>>> By The Way >>>>>>>> Stadium Arcadium

 

[Saracene]

Blood Sugar Sex Magik = great singles + whole load of filler. One of the most overrated albums ever IMO. I rarely feel like listening to a whole RHCP album anyway but I much prefer their stuff from Californication onwards.

 

[believer75]

I had my IPOD on random yesterday and Californication came on......I hadn't heard the song in a while and I was thinking this song is much better than I remembered. I was getting into the lyrics and the sound and really digging it.

I also saw them in concert a few years back and it was definitely (outside of U2) one of the best concerts I have been to.

And Scar Tissue is an amazing song as well....they have several stand-out tracks.

 

[65980]

"Californication" (the song) is a frickin' masterpiece in my opinion. Amazing lyrics, unique vision, timeless melody, and little bit o' funk. Agree with NamkcuR that the album is their best, also...

 

[Mr Sarajevo]

Discotheque shouldn't have been the lead off single; or even probably a single at all. QUOTE]

Did Discotheque not get to No.1 in the UK in its first week of release?

 

[The Passenger]

The "Discotheque" single & video were such curveballs, that I'm sure it turned many people away from giving the rest of the album a chance. Even as a huge fan, when I first heard/saw it, I was like, "WTF was that?". It is about as far away from The Joshua Tree as you could get. Still, after many listens, I think "Discotheque" is a great song, and very innovative for U2. I do think it was the wrong choice for a first single though. I do think U2 make too many excuses about Pop though, like they ran out of time. It was 4 years between Zooropa & Pop (yeah I know the did Passengers too), but they already extended the deadline once. The album was originally supposed to come out before Xmas 1996. I have a feeling if it sold like the previous 4 albums, there wouldn't have been any excuses as to why it didn't meet sales expectations, or that it was unfinished. I think Pop is one of their best albums. I love every song. I prefer the remixes of "Last Night On Earth" & "Gone" because they come closer to the dynamics of the live versions IMO, but other than that, I wouldn't change a thing about it. And either should they. The Best of mixes were awful except "Gone", and I don't think the single remixes improved any songs except for "LNOE". "LNOE" & "Gone" really came alive in concert. So did "Please" & "Mofo". So in the end, I wouldn't change anything about Pop except the remixes on the 2 tracks I mentioned.

 

[allbecauseofu2]

disco turned some people off, yet also was a hit single. far more GOYB. if GOYB had the equal of disco now, the album would have proly double the sales it has so far. and chili peppers double album stadium arcadium, is awesome piece of work. thier may not be a classic classic hit on thier, but thiers no bad or even mediocre songs on thier. thier all decent to great. 2 hours of music. perhaps u2 should have released ascent and no line together as one.

 

[believer75]

I thought this song is FINE as is. They should sing it live again

Yes, why not bring this one back (Last Night on Earth)? I think the crowd would dig it. That song along with a couple more in the setlists could bring some "justice" to Pop once and for all. Mofo, LNOE, Please would bring it back. People need to hear those.

 

[Brian-C]

You don't like RHCP's Californication? I think it's a brilliant album. It's probably my favorite RHCP album a lot of the time.

No.

 

[ultraviolet7]

The Best of mixes were awful except "Gone"

The Best Of mixes were indeed awful ESPECIALLY "Gone", which makes me sick at the mere thought of it.

 

[lazarus]

Agreed. Every time someone mentions that mix positively I cringe. I can't stand the Edge "Doowwwwwn!" backing vocals, and the whole soul and atmosphere of the original recording is missing.

 

[AtomicBono]

I listened to the new mix of Gone the other day, and then realized why I hadn't listened to it in years. The album version tramples all over it. I can see them wanting to re-record some songs for whatever reason, but why Gone? I guess because it's closer to the live version, and I do love Gone live, but leave the album version alone plzkthx. I really don't like Bono's vocal delivery in the new mix. It's just not as good. And, minor point, but "just was greed" bugs me. It sounds much better as "is just greed."

But yeah, I seem to remember a quote from Bono about a ghost coming in the room when they recorded Gone? Why would you EVER change that? does anyone know what I'm talking about or did I just make that up?

 

[mikal]

I listened to the new mix of Gone the other day, and then realized why I hadn't listened to it in years. The album version tramples all over it. I can see them wanting to re-record some songs for whatever reason, but why Gone? I guess because it's closer to the live version, and I do love Gone live, but leave the album version alone plzkthx. I really don't like Bono's vocal delivery in the new mix. It's just not as good. And, minor point, but "just was greed" bugs me. It sounds much better as "is just greed."

But yeah, I seem to remember a quote from Bono about a ghost coming in the room when they recorded Gone? Why would you EVER change that? does anyone know what I'm talking about or did I just make that up?

i think they butchered Discotheque even worse. talk about taking all the energy out of a song.

 

[Earnie Shavers]

Yep, album version of Gone is lightyears ahead of the Best Of version. The soul of Gone was torn out on the Best Of.

 

[allbecauseofu2]

the dvd mix of last night is great. not a fan of the other remixes on the best of cd. let the techno oriented stuff on pop BE JUST THAT. its a dance song. thats what it is. .

 

[lazarus]

But yeah, I seem to remember a quote from Bono about a ghost coming in the room when they recorded Gone? Why would you EVER change that? does anyone know what I'm talking about or did I just make that up?

I've mentioned this over and over. Bono said when he recorded the vocal he felt someone had walked over his grave or something to that effect. Shame on them for trying to revise something so unique and powerful.

Also, I'm convinced that the only reason Edge's "dowwwwn" vocal was added was because Bono couldn't hit that "hoooo" falsetto after "I'm not coming down" anymore.

 

[Salome]

I think the remixes should kill all the "just one more month" talks
because they really weren't great improvements (though I do think they make the 90s best of a more coherent listening experience)
the songs worked a lot better live, I think cause of the band's sheer energy
but they never did figure at all how to translate that to record IMO

 

[monsieur fly]

The best of mixes turned Discotheque and Gone into ATYCLB clones- what a dreadful fate for two great songs.

 

[monsieur fly]

I think the remixes should kill all the "just one more month" talks
because they really weren't great improvements (though I do think they make the 90s best of a more coherent listening experience)
the songs worked a lot better live, I think cause of the band's sheer energy
but they never did figure at all how to translate that to record IMO

Exactly- U2 songs sound great in their supposedly "unfinished" state. Unfortunately Lilliywhite (or some chap called Mike Hedges) then comes in and ruins things.