Salome
you are what you is
I love nloth but...
- Thread starter DaHowler
- Start date
The friendliest place on the web for anyone that follows U2.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Roland of Gilead
Gunslinger
It is hypothetical because, in the end, you/we are basing thoughts on something we can't hear, but only be subjected to the opinions of.
Remember the quote "punk rock from Venus?" This was about Vertigo, I believe (correct me if I am wrong, I thought it was a Bomb song). Well, using this quote as an example, imagine we never hear the song that this quote is based on. We only have thoughts about what the quote actually means, without experiencing the sound of the music ourselves. When U2 suggest they have this "punk rock" sound (that we haven't heard), how can you/we make the bases of an assumption on this sound and pass it off as being purely "factual" (as in punk rock - Dead Kennedys, the Damned, Sex Pistols, the Cramps, etc...), when U2 are well known masters of hyperbole. Everthing spoken by U2 and their associates, must be kept in relevance by the historical sound of U2. We just don't know until we hear it. Especially, when it comes to this band.
MooMoo!
New Yorker
Thats the thing, do they really need safe albums at this point? Or ever for that matter?
You dont start out making "safe" albums. Safe albums didnt get them where they are today, and arnt what we love them for. They dont need to be careful damnit!!
I look forward to this next one with interest though. Its evident they can still do the edgy (lolz) stuff, you can hear it, but they need to smooth down less and explode more.
Or something.
purpleoscar
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
This is one of the best albums of the decade. 'Nuff said. 
Salome
you are what you is
I think the album is perfect
if this is the result of dumbing down then call me dumb enough
if this is the result of dumbing down then call me dumb enough
Roland of Gilead
Gunslinger
last unicorn
Blue Crack Addict
I think they shouldn't experiment just for experimentation's sake, I wouldn't like that. I like that there is a lot of "U2" on the album, mixed with a couple of new and more couragous sounds. For me, this mixture is perfect. Of course there will always be critics who say it's too experimental and not accessible enough, there are not enough U2 "hymns" and melodies, while others will say it's too much U2, too typical, nothing new, etc. No matter what they'll decide to do, there will always be people complaining. I think at this point of their carreer they've made a very good record with some classical U2 and some new stuff.
I am with eas on this. I am not dissing the album, I just happen to think that for whatever reason(s) they decided to give us iteration 2 of their album. Heres to hoping we get a release of some of the left over tracks during their world tour.
Iskra
War Child
What?
They DID find a new sound. There is nothing in their catalog that sounds as crappy as Crazy Tonight!
I too wish they would have stayed the course. Fez/Being Born should have set the tone and they should have stayed in that direction.
As long as they remain worried about having a hit single, we'll never get their best work.
They DID find a new sound. There is nothing in their catalog that sounds as crappy as Crazy Tonight!
I too wish they would have stayed the course. Fez/Being Born should have set the tone and they should have stayed in that direction.
As long as they remain worried about having a hit single, we'll never get their best work.
mikal
Blue Crack Addict
i guess i still don't understand how some of you were able to sneak into the studio and hear the early versions of these songs. the next time U2 records a new album, could you please take me with you?
nathan1977
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Both albums are great. Couldn't stop listening to VLV when I bought it; can't stop listening to NLOTH now.
standrums
War Child
the album is brilliant to me...no point in experimenting for experimenting's sake - there's a good vibe to this album.
They needed a departure for AB, U2 are a different band now, we know they changed and expanded. The album had some sublime moment on it...I just really love it the way it is.
This album had connected to me more than any other U2 album to date...it's been a great companion of mine over these past couple of weeks.
And that's all I can ask of it.
They needed a departure for AB, U2 are a different band now, we know they changed and expanded. The album had some sublime moment on it...I just really love it the way it is.
This album had connected to me more than any other U2 album to date...it's been a great companion of mine over these past couple of weeks.
And that's all I can ask of it.
Niceman
Rock n' Roll Doggie VIP PASS
This album is far more experimental that its getting credit for in this thread. Why don't you go listen to Radiohead, who get called experimental even though their last 4 albums all sounded the same? It isn't as simple as switching genres, or getting called experimental because you have an industrial sound. This album IS as big a departure as Achtung. White As Snow???? Unknown Caller? Moment of Surrender? Stand Up Comedy doesn't sound like anything they've ever done before...
"You just don't get it, do you???"
"You just don't get it, do you???"
rihannsu
Refugee
Eno if he had his way would have U2 recording songs they could never play live and he hates rock songs. Their has always been a tension between where Eno wants them to go and where they want to go. Eno has also said that it is good that they don't always listen to him. They got away with the drastic change in sound from JT to AB because they were still young. Like it or not people in general are not prepare to allow men of their age to make great rock music. If they got too experimental they would be written off faster than they were with Pop and at this stage it is unlikely that they would be able to come back from that. They want their music to reach as wide an audience as possible and that means they can't get too far out there. Since U2's supposedly "safe albums" sound better than the majority of what's out there I have no problems with that. I'd rather them do this than go out on an experimental limb and end up disappearing because they loose their audience.
Dana
Dana
bathiu
Refugee
This album is far more experimental that its getting credit for in this thread. Why don't you go listen to Radiohead, who get called experimental even though their last 4 albums all sounded the same? It isn't as simple as switching genres, or getting called experimental because you have an industrial sound. This album IS as big a departure as Achtung. White As Snow???? Unknown Caller? Moment of Surrender? Stand Up Comedy doesn't sound like anything they've ever done before...
"You just don't get it, do you???"
especially the Radiohead part 
Laura M
Blue Crack Addict
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I don't think there's anything remotely as radical on NLOTH as the transition from the 80's U2 into AB. All the elements on NLOTH have appeared in some shape in U2's music.
doctorwho
Rock n' Roll Doggie VIP PASS
I disagree with your accessible comment. I feel NLOTH is one of U2's least accessible albums ever and that it will take time for fans, U2 and casual, to really enjoy.
I feel that TUF was a far, FAR bigger departure - perhaps the biggest U2 ever did - than anything else. U2 established a post-punk new wave sound with their first three albums. These were definitely rock albums.
With TUF, suddenly there came a completely new U2. A song like "Pride" stood on TUF just the way GOYB stands on on NLOTH. It's a rocker, while most of the other work on TUF is ambient. I compare NLOTH to TUF because remove that fast rock song and the rest of the album is a bit tougher for the masses. That is, there are no "instant hooks" or obvious hit songs. There are great tracks on TUF - which is why it ranks as one of my top U2 albums. But it's not like it's an album full of hit songs.
AB is often described as this "great departure". Yes, there are some new elements on AB that U2 hadn't tried before. For the first time ever, we hears Bono's voice modified. We heard him sing a song in a high/low format. We heard him "speak" a song. We heard some new interesting sounds in the beggining of songs. And, compared to the atmospheric sound established on TUF and JT, and the darker songs on R&H, clearly AB was a departure.
But AB was also, IMO, the first time U2 tried this "album full of hit singles" style. Songs like "One", "Mysterious Ways", "Even Better Than..." leap out as instant hit songs with big hooks. And indeed, all three of those songs were Top 40 hits in the U.S., the first two being Top 10 hits! Other songs like "Wild Horses" (another Top 40 hit in the U.S.) and "Until the End..." (a Top 15 hit on the U.S. Modern Rock charts, which is impressive as it was never released as a single!) also leap out as songs that were instantly likeable.
In other words, U2's big departure was more in style than in sound. Gone was the image of this long-haired Bono and cowboy boots and ripped jeans. In came the "rock star" image and a "less than holy" attitude. The show was flashy, the image was flashy, and it worked well with an album full of great hit songs.
With NLOTH, I see the style returning to that of TUF in many ways. If one is disappointed only because there appears to be a bit of a regression, I can accept that. There are several tracks on NLOTH that I feel could have worked very well on TUF. Of course, I like that, so I'm very happy. But there are 80's elements to the songs - sounds that I hadn't heard for a while.
The good news is that it's the GOOD 80's sounds. NLOTH isn't an album full of crappy synthesizers or corny pop music.
NLOTH is a departure for U2. And like with AB, they do explore new areas. There are new sounds, new ideas, and areas U2 hadn't tried before. I read a post from a person that stated Bono never shut up on HTDAAB. On NLOTH, there are great expanses of music where Bono doesn't say a word.
So NLOTH, to me, is definitely a departure from ATYCLB and HTDAAB. There are some elements of those albums on NLOTH. But this is true for all of U2's work. Fans often consider "Pop" this radical departure, but if you listen closely, it's almost an album of U2's "greatest hits". They took elements from all of their past albums and incorporated them onto "Pop". I wrote about this on WIRE back in 1997. And, much to my surprise, Billy Corgan did an interview with U2 and stated the exact same thing! So I knew it wasn't just me who heard it. NLOTH is the same - we have elements of U2's past, especially a heavy TUF influence, but incorporated for a future direction.
Therefore, going back to my original point, the only time U2 really changed styles was "War" to TUF. And even then, they had a few "transition songs". The other changes were really more in style or album focus (AB being about the different types of love, while JT was truly about America and Africa).
I always ask people what they want when they say "a new change" or new "innovative sound". Keep in mind this is U2. They won't suddenly leap into a completely new genre as they have their own sound. It's that sound that made us U2 fans.
Would you accept an album full of synthesizers? Would you accept an overly ambient album (there's a reason OS1 was released under the Passengers moniker)? Would you accept a country album? Would you accept a heavy metal album? And if you say "yes" to any of that, is this truly "innovative"? After all, it's just U2 trying a new genre of music.
NLOTH is one of U2's bigger departures. We haven't heard these sounds since TUF. This isn't an album "full of singles" like AB, ATYCLB and HTDAAB were (and arguably "Pop" belongs there too). U2 have tried some odd sounds, much as they did on "Zooropa", but different and bolder.
Is that innovative? Given what U2 has done, I would say it's just the next step forward for them. For other bands, NLOTH would be wildly innovative. For U2, it's not. So I can accept that critique. But it is a departure. And given the "hate" for the rest of the work released this decade on this board, I would think U2 fans would love NLOTH. And, given that the rest of the world really enjoyed U2's output this decade, I can see NLOTH struggling a bit (in sales) as it isn't accessible. But this time, NLOTH should not see the backlash "Pop" did. This is U2 being U2, not U2 trying to incorporate sounds of other bands.
Niceman
Rock n' Roll Doggie VIP PASS
Including White As Snow?
And I suppose we'd have to decide what we mean by an "element" which would make sense and yet allow for Achtung to have done something which hadn't yet been done.
I haven't heard their "Greek Chorus" before.
Or Bono's lyrical style as used in Breathe.
He's certainly doing new vocal techniques that I've never heard him use before.
What song is like Moment of Surrender with its expanding structure? Or even its length?
The satirical high notes in Crazy?
I could go on. I think its as simple as this: for a lot of people, experimental doesn't actually mean experimenting anymore. It means sounding like Kid A. The term has become an indicator of a specific stodgy impotent style which was fully explored 10 years ago rather than the organic exploration that the term is supposed to mean.
Nothing in U2's catalogue has the feel of Cedars of Lebanon. Yes, I can recognize its lineage. It exists in a literature, but its an entirely new country we have never been to before.
U2's had acoustic songs on an album before. What's so different about White as snow ? The french horn or that they took an old Christmas tune ?
"Greek chorus" ? In Unkown Caller ? Maybe, but the opening guitar is very much like Walk on/JT era U2.
Bono is using some new vocal styles, but Breathe (tempo of the song aside) could have easily come from Bomb. MOS sounds similar to Your Blue Room specifically at the start. Crazy tonight ? ATYCLB. Stand up comedy - I always thought it's the more fun, loose sister song to Crumbs from your table. Cedars of Lebanon - sounds like slow U2 songs in the 90's, down to Bono doing his Lou Reed impersonation again.
It may be a "departure" from the last two albums, but it's not the leap they were hinting at.
"Greek chorus" ? In Unkown Caller ? Maybe, but the opening guitar is very much like Walk on/JT era U2.
Bono is using some new vocal styles, but Breathe (tempo of the song aside) could have easily come from Bomb. MOS sounds similar to Your Blue Room specifically at the start. Crazy tonight ? ATYCLB. Stand up comedy - I always thought it's the more fun, loose sister song to Crumbs from your table. Cedars of Lebanon - sounds like slow U2 songs in the 90's, down to Bono doing his Lou Reed impersonation again.
It may be a "departure" from the last two albums, but it's not the leap they were hinting at.
gweeps
War Child
Since Pop, the band has tried to please everyone. And it's a shame. Not that I'm complaining, but you can definitely tell, especially with NLOTH. Hopefully, if they do indeed release that ambient "pilgrimage" album within a year, it is so low-key that only the truly adventurous will hear it.
Salome
you are what you is
Niceman
Rock n' Roll Doggie VIP PASS
The Greek Chorus appears prominently in 3 songs, and to a lesser extent in others.
I think the opening guitar in UC is an intentional reference to Walk On/Peace on earth. He starts off by playing notes like would have fit on that album, and then after a bar or two the sound changes to something that absolutely WOULD NOT have fit on ATYCLB. It's intentional. It's an FU back at their previous sound.
What's so different about White As Snow? They've never recorded any song in that one's neighborhood before! Wow....
Breathe's tempo makes it a BOMB song? There's so much more going on there. The frenetic Stipe-Dylan verse style is completely new for him, and the meshing of that with the wide and round chorus is breathtaking, yes, and new! Could he have written this song if he hadn't written Gone and Original of the Species already? I don't think so.... but it's a long walk from those parents. Brian Eno refered to the voice, character Bono uses in the song as "Big Jim Burly" and it is a new way for him to sing. Was tempo the reason why The Fly was a departure? Not for a band that had written I Will Follow, and Electric Co.
Crazy Tonight is NOTHING like anything on ATYCLB. yes, it has a light and positive feel. maybe they're using the same instruments? But the cadence, singing style, and frankly the intelligence of the song put it shoulders above that album, which lumbered its way forward based solely on the power of sincerity.
I love Crumbs, but how could any song sound less like it than Stand Up Comedy? That sexy riff, those circular spinning lyrics. Are you just hearing some of the same notes? The song is about twice as fast, far groovier, and really is as unique in the U2 cannon as a song probably could be at this point. Can you dance to Crumbs? maybe waltz.... but I groove down the street listening to Stand Up....
I respectfully disagree with you.
I am listening to u2 on the tv at the moment they are going through all their era's showing videos of the songs and it just hit me if I want them to sound like they did in the Joshua tree I just go and listen to the Josha tree
if I want to listen to them sounding like atchung baby zoorpa I should listen to those albums
the same with ATYCLB and HTDAAB
and on top of that I get the treat to hear their latest release, an added bonus
I can't complain really I can't, because there is going to come a time they are not going to be around anymore so I am just thankful they are still making music even if it isn't as groundbreaking as some people expect it to be
yes they all sound like U2 but its a unique u2 that don't sound like anyone else at that time and era they were released in, they are still all different to my ears
so I am happy with all they have done and listening to it all now reminds my why I love them
if I want to listen to them sounding like atchung baby zoorpa I should listen to those albums
the same with ATYCLB and HTDAAB
and on top of that I get the treat to hear their latest release, an added bonus
I can't complain really I can't, because there is going to come a time they are not going to be around anymore so I am just thankful they are still making music even if it isn't as groundbreaking as some people expect it to be
yes they all sound like U2 but its a unique u2 that don't sound like anyone else at that time and era they were released in, they are still all different to my ears
so I am happy with all they have done and listening to it all now reminds my why I love them
yenlard
War Child
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- Nov 6, 2004
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- 511
from what i can hear of the beach clips the changes are not that extreme. perhaps breathe is a little slower and they added the "these days" part. as for magnificent it does pretty much sound the same. again....we cant hear the little details for the most part. it would be much clearer if the beach clips were demos. then we would definitely know.
quadcaster
Refugee
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2004
- Messages
- 1,700
but the album is a "complete departure" from HTDAAB.
at some point you need to accept that U2 will still sound like U2.
TOTALLY agree!
U2 are U2 and will always, to some degree, sound like U2.
They said that this is a depature like achtung baby, but that the album did not sound like achtung. This is a depature from the last two albums.
So many of the songs sound completely left field compared to the last two albums.
You wont find riffs like Stand Up Comedy and Boots anywhere else in the U2 cannon. Edge isnt really a riff player, and yet he's pulled afew awsome riffs together for this album.
Larry is playing in his usual style, but he is going outside of the norms at times.
Adam, cant fault him on this one. His bass lines range from imaginative and original through to intricate. He is playing his instrument in a way he has not done in years and looking at the last two albums where he tended to just plod along to the beat of everybody elses drum, he has done something completely different this time around.
Bono has been doing different things aswell. Look at breathe, the way he almost rants his way through it. Look at magnificent where he is singing quite mid-range notes during the verses and in between each midrange line, he dips down low. He is singing like a lead singer should, skirting around the rhythms and really messing with melodies.
Although it still sounds like U2, this album has brought foward many different aspects of this band that we have not seen bofore, or that we have not seen in a long time.
RANT END.
Niceman
Rock n' Roll Doggie VIP PASS
TOTALLY agree!
U2 are U2 and will always, to some degree, sound like U2.
They said that this is a depature like achtung baby, but that the album did not sound like achtung. This is a depature from the last two albums.
So many of the songs sound completely left field compared to the last two albums.
You wont find riffs like Stand Up Comedy and Boots anywhere else in the U2 cannon. Edge isnt really a riff player, and yet he's pulled afew awsome riffs together for this album.
Larry is playing in his usual style, but he is going outside of the norms at times.
Adam, cant fault him on this one. His bass lines range from imaginative and original through to intricate. He is playing his instrument in a way he has not done in years and looking at the last two albums where he tended to just plod along to the beat of everybody elses drum, he has done something completely different this time around.
Bono has been doing different things aswell. Look at breathe, the way he almost rants his way through it. Look at magnificent where he is singing quite mid-range notes during the verses and in between each midrange line, he dips down low. He is singing like a lead singer should, skirting around the rhythms and really messing with melodies.
Although it still sounds like U2, this album has brought foward many different aspects of this band that we have not seen bofore, or that we have not seen in a long time.
RANT END.
Well said!
quadcaster
Refugee
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2004
- Messages
- 1,700
This album is far more experimental that its getting credit for in this thread. Why don't you go listen to Radiohead, who get called experimental even though their last 4 albums all sounded the same? It isn't as simple as switching genres, or getting called experimental because you have an industrial sound. This album IS as big a departure as Achtung. White As Snow???? Unknown Caller? Moment of Surrender? Stand Up Comedy doesn't sound like anything they've ever done before...
"You just don't get it, do you???"
That is too true. They have never done a song like WAS with those Sergio Leone (spaghetti western director) landscapes, UC (chants), or SUC which is very Peppers. They've done nothing like GOYB, Breathe or NLOTH even. Its a huge departure from what everyone else is doing as well.
I love the debate. It's fun to talk about.
But until U2 plays classical music like Billy Joel to me it all sounds like U2 to me.
This new album isn't full of singles -- GREAT POINT.
But when the 4 band members and the people behind most of their albums are the same -- to me it's just the same difference.
It's different, but it's the same.
To me STUCK IN A MOMENT = SOMETIMES YOU CAN'T MAKE IT = MOMENT OF SURRENDER... (same, but different).
That is why I laugh at when bands talk about reinventing themselves and finding new sounds when at the end of the day, most artists are just rewriting the same songs over and over -- even if they don't notice it.
I'm a screenwriter so I understand it. I find myself writing "new" scripts that I think is new terrority, but the more you look at it, you know it's me.
U2 is U2. And that's a good thing. This album is a bit tougher to get into too as they took some chances, but the core concept of a them as a band is always present. Bono's voice, the hope, Edge's guitar, Adam's bass lines and Larry driving the ship... it's there. On every album.
I think we should judge the album on what "it is" not what "it could be" or what "you would like it to be"
And once again, U2 gave us a great album. It might take a little longer to get into it, but it's classic U2.
But until U2 plays classical music like Billy Joel to me it all sounds like U2 to me.
This new album isn't full of singles -- GREAT POINT.
But when the 4 band members and the people behind most of their albums are the same -- to me it's just the same difference.
It's different, but it's the same.
To me STUCK IN A MOMENT = SOMETIMES YOU CAN'T MAKE IT = MOMENT OF SURRENDER... (same, but different).
That is why I laugh at when bands talk about reinventing themselves and finding new sounds when at the end of the day, most artists are just rewriting the same songs over and over -- even if they don't notice it.
I'm a screenwriter so I understand it. I find myself writing "new" scripts that I think is new terrority, but the more you look at it, you know it's me.
U2 is U2. And that's a good thing. This album is a bit tougher to get into too as they took some chances, but the core concept of a them as a band is always present. Bono's voice, the hope, Edge's guitar, Adam's bass lines and Larry driving the ship... it's there. On every album.
I think we should judge the album on what "it is" not what "it could be" or what "you would like it to be"
And once again, U2 gave us a great album. It might take a little longer to get into it, but it's classic U2.
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