Mac_Fly
War Child
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Now you can add Phoenix to the mix.
It looks terrible.
To think, all those people wondering why Phoenix wasn't added for so many months.
Now you know.
Will U2 sell the remaining tickets to make this tour a complete sell out?
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Now you can add Phoenix to the mix.
It looks terrible.
To think, all those people wondering why Phoenix wasn't added for so many months.
Now you know.
Wide Awake n AZ
The Fly
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Could, maybe, the issue with Phoenix be that the city was not announced in the original listing, so many of us went to Pasadena for the Rose Bowl. Then, in the next drop of shows, the tour was taken through San Diego and then out of the US, and that really appeared to be it for North America, with some rumors about New Orleans and Atlanta out there that appeared true when New Orleans was announced. So we bought tickets for San Diego. Then, after that, Phoenix was announced in what appears to be an unintended show that pivoted off the Atl stadium issues.
How many tickets are the Phoenix area fans supposed to buy? I know I am off to San Diego on Thursday for the Friday show, and I can't sell my tickets because they are fan club. I would not have bought San Diego, especially given the time of year (very busy personally) if I had even an inkling that Phoenix was a possibility. And I follow these boards...the average fan does not analyze gaps in the tour, etc, and even if they did, the answer pointed to Atlanta.
Phoenix has done very well for U2 over the years. But there is a point of fatigue for the fan who was overwhelmed by this tour idea, and chased it like I did to every point it came within 500 miles of me. Only to then, after purchasing all the tickets and travel that comes with those tickets, be told "hey...we are gonna do a Tuesday show too in the west Valley were most of you don't live. Did you take time off to come see us in Pasadena and San Diego the following Friday? Now come over to the stadium built across town in rush hour to see us on a work night and get back to work the next morning, even though you are going to see us in 3 days. Sorry for the late notice. We love you, Phoenix...err, Glendale".
If Phoenix had been added at the beginning of this tour, the place would have sold out without much effort. And it still may...this is June and the show is in September. But, yeah...this has been a bit frustrating for fans here like me who have expended greatly to make two trips to expensive areas for shows. There is impact there. If not Pasadena in May, then San Diego the same week. We thought that was our only chance.
How many tickets are the Phoenix area fans supposed to buy? I know I am off to San Diego on Thursday for the Friday show, and I can't sell my tickets because they are fan club. I would not have bought San Diego, especially given the time of year (very busy personally) if I had even an inkling that Phoenix was a possibility. And I follow these boards...the average fan does not analyze gaps in the tour, etc, and even if they did, the answer pointed to Atlanta.
Phoenix has done very well for U2 over the years. But there is a point of fatigue for the fan who was overwhelmed by this tour idea, and chased it like I did to every point it came within 500 miles of me. Only to then, after purchasing all the tickets and travel that comes with those tickets, be told "hey...we are gonna do a Tuesday show too in the west Valley were most of you don't live. Did you take time off to come see us in Pasadena and San Diego the following Friday? Now come over to the stadium built across town in rush hour to see us on a work night and get back to work the next morning, even though you are going to see us in 3 days. Sorry for the late notice. We love you, Phoenix...err, Glendale".
If Phoenix had been added at the beginning of this tour, the place would have sold out without much effort. And it still may...this is June and the show is in September. But, yeah...this has been a bit frustrating for fans here like me who have expended greatly to make two trips to expensive areas for shows. There is impact there. If not Pasadena in May, then San Diego the same week. We thought that was our only chance.
Mac_Fly
War Child
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Yes good point and that is exactly what I expected would happen when Phoenix wasn't announced -- that anyone interested living in Phoenix and able would go to Pasadena for this tour.
I know since I&E didn't come to Miami I chose to fly to Phoenix for that one, so it happens.
Though I must say, even though I went to Phoenix and Chicago for I&E, I would have never passed up seeing them in Miami had that been added at a later date.
Wide Awake n AZ
The Fly
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And I am going to the Phoenix show. But I can see why some might, especially with San Diego tickets, say "ehh...Tuesday on the West Side, I-10 through downtown after work? Traffic after the show? Screw it...I am seeing them 3 days later."
More than 80% of the fans that would go to a stadium show will not attempt to travel out of state for a concert. The fact that U2 were there in 2015 is a bigger impact than any California shows on this tour.
Lets be honest about Phoenix. The stadium show there on ZOO TV only had 35,000, POPMART was even less. They did get to 50,000 for 360.
The glory of the Joshua Tree in Arizona at the end of the tour in 1987 with two soldout shows with 55,000 per night at Sun Devil Stadium was largely due to the low ticket price of just 5 dollars per ticket. Another factor was that it was the end of the tour and there were contest around the country to win free tickets to the event.
Typically, Phoenix is a two arena market. U2 have never done 3 arena shows in a row or close together in the Phoenix area. The only time they got stadium attendance above 40,000 for a show under normal circumstances and ticket prices was the 360 show.
Phoenix is really a lot more like Pittsburgh when it comes to filling a stadium.
Spot on.
If I were a casual fan I would have gone to Pasadena or San Diego if I couldn't make the Pasadena show and called it a day, as most casual fans probably don't have the money/time/desire to see the same show on the same tour.
Phoenix was the last US show announced, most fans have already picked their travel shows, and a Tuesday show in 100 degree Phoenix may not be at the top of everyone's pick for a destination show. And as @wideawake pointed out, if you've already seen them in one of the earlier announced SOCAL shows, a late night with rush hour traffic and work the next morning may not be as appealing as a SD escape from the heat that very same Friday.
But seeing as I'm not a casual fan, I did RB, and I'm heading to SD, Phoenix and Detroit LOL!
It is still very early, I'm sure Phoenix will be well represented, and even if it's not, more room for me on the floor!
See you there.
I don't think there is more than a thousand people in the Phoenix Metro area that would be willing to drive 6 hours or fly on an airplane to either San Diego or LA for a U2 show. It means staying overnight in a hotel and other expenses. If air travel is chosen it gets even more expensive. There is simply to much extra time an money involved with doing all of that. The U2 ticket soon becomes a fraction of the cost of the whole thing.
The easiest on money and time would be of course to drive home right after the concert. Imagine driving for 6 hours after a concert that finishes close to midnight. No casual fan is willing to do that. Only a die hard would do that. Only die hard fans bother to read and post on a U2 message board.
The maximum impact of announcing Phoenix late like this is probably about 800 tickets not being sold, that's it. Bottom line, its not relevant.
Even when cities are only two hours apart, like Cleveland and Pittsburgh or Washington D.C. and Philadelphia, the impact is still only a small fraction of the total possible attendance.
The easiest on money and time would be of course to drive home right after the concert. Imagine driving for 6 hours after a concert that finishes close to midnight. No casual fan is willing to do that. Only a die hard would do that. Only die hard fans bother to read and post on a U2 message board.
The maximum impact of announcing Phoenix late like this is probably about 800 tickets not being sold, that's it. Bottom line, its not relevant.
Even when cities are only two hours apart, like Cleveland and Pittsburgh or Washington D.C. and Philadelphia, the impact is still only a small fraction of the total possible attendance.
You make a valid point but you have to consider the other cities around Phoenix too don't you?
Salt Lake City, Denver, Las Vegas, Tucson, Albuquerque, SoCal, Mexico? All those fans may have ended up in Phoenix if it had been announced earlier. Phoenix and NO were literally the last two NA shows announced and they're both slow to sell. Is that coincidence? I don't know.
If you only have time and/or money for one show and Phoenix wasn't a consideration until the very end, that would obviously have an impact on ticket sales.
Salt Lake City, Denver, Las Vegas, Tucson, Albuquerque, SoCal, Mexico? All those fans may have ended up in Phoenix if it had been announced earlier. Phoenix and NO were literally the last two NA shows announced and they're both slow to sell. Is that coincidence? I don't know.
If you only have time and/or money for one show and Phoenix wasn't a consideration until the very end, that would obviously have an impact on ticket sales.
I think if your willing to spend x amount of dollars to travel to another state to see u2 then if they announce a gig in your hometown you are gonna find another 80 dollars for a GA ticket on your back door step. If your willing to travel then your a big fan. Nothing's gonna stop u buying a ticket in your home town
Wide Awake n AZ
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We've talked about this before. The Joshua Tree in particular has a resonance here. Not 360. Not U2 specifically. U2 and the Joshua Tree. The show here will drive a series of local media look backs to that moment, to the Mecham debacle and U2's response, to the $5 show, and to a certain extent, the Zoo TV show and Public Enemy's refusal to perform related to the since-resolved MLK mess. Not every show is the same. There will be free promotion that you couldn't buy if you wanted to locally. Pure numbers can get you so far, but they can also tell you Hillary was going to win. And I say that as a risk manager who depends upon trend analysis and numbers to make decisions. The mistakes people in my position make time and again is to fail to consider environmental impact.
That media cycle will heat up prior to the show, but delaying the show announcement until two area shows were sold, and really not planning to play here/no reason for people to think they were going to play here is a large impact. This town supports huge music events, even when there were 1/5th the number of people here. The Rolling Stones "Let's Spend the Night Together" was also filmed here, and most major stadium tours have included a stop here with perfectly good results.
You cannot overstate the specific significance U2's Joshua Tree album and tour have here. You also cannot overlook the impact of the housing crisis and the local economy on the 360 results. Those are all real factors. Phoenix was a "hardest hit" community, and the local economy is largely driven by the real estate market, builders, and banking/mortgage. This city was destroyed. Everyone was impacted, but Phoenix, Las Vegas, and the Orlando, FL area were gutted. We have recovered, and the local economy is smoking.
And, yeah, if you have expended on major shows out of town, your show is a Tuesday, and you have tickets to a show THREE DAYS LATER, it can impact buying in your own home town. If it was just Pasadena, no, a show in May is not going to impact you buying a ticket for the hometown show in September. But when your show wasn't announced until after the purchase of Pasadena and San Diego, and you have to travel on Thursday to get to a Friday show in San Diego, and a show is announced for that Tuesday? Yes, most definitely, that can impact buying a ticket to your local show. We are hardcores and will see the same show over and over. Most rational people do not pay hundreds of dollars to see the exact same show on a Tuesday and a Friday. That is gonna stop u from buying a ticket in your hometown...unless you are a hardcore (like me, so I am going to both, though I did only purchase $35 tickets for the Phoenix show, when I would have bought the $160 option if San Diego wasn't 3 days later and bought).
That media cycle will heat up prior to the show, but delaying the show announcement until two area shows were sold, and really not planning to play here/no reason for people to think they were going to play here is a large impact. This town supports huge music events, even when there were 1/5th the number of people here. The Rolling Stones "Let's Spend the Night Together" was also filmed here, and most major stadium tours have included a stop here with perfectly good results.
You cannot overstate the specific significance U2's Joshua Tree album and tour have here. You also cannot overlook the impact of the housing crisis and the local economy on the 360 results. Those are all real factors. Phoenix was a "hardest hit" community, and the local economy is largely driven by the real estate market, builders, and banking/mortgage. This city was destroyed. Everyone was impacted, but Phoenix, Las Vegas, and the Orlando, FL area were gutted. We have recovered, and the local economy is smoking.
And, yeah, if you have expended on major shows out of town, your show is a Tuesday, and you have tickets to a show THREE DAYS LATER, it can impact buying in your own home town. If it was just Pasadena, no, a show in May is not going to impact you buying a ticket for the hometown show in September. But when your show wasn't announced until after the purchase of Pasadena and San Diego, and you have to travel on Thursday to get to a Friday show in San Diego, and a show is announced for that Tuesday? Yes, most definitely, that can impact buying a ticket to your local show. We are hardcores and will see the same show over and over. Most rational people do not pay hundreds of dollars to see the exact same show on a Tuesday and a Friday. That is gonna stop u from buying a ticket in your hometown...unless you are a hardcore (like me, so I am going to both, though I did only purchase $35 tickets for the Phoenix show, when I would have bought the $160 option if San Diego wasn't 3 days later and bought).
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sunnysideoflove
The Fly
good afternoon,
my friends have dropped out at the last minute. i have a spare two tickets next to eachother, great location. i definately want a fan to go. please email me at dsm@starcutouts.com if you are interested. they are
U2 - The Joshua Tree Tour 2017 - Seated
Twickenham Stadium - U2, London,
Sat 8 Jul 2017, 18:00
Type: Wires Group Presale Ticket
Details: M35, Row 59, Seats: 318-319
Ticket Price: £170.00 x 2 = £340.00
would like to get as close to the face value as possible. they are tickets i can email as a pdf.
my friends have dropped out at the last minute. i have a spare two tickets next to eachother, great location. i definately want a fan to go. please email me at dsm@starcutouts.com if you are interested. they are
U2 - The Joshua Tree Tour 2017 - Seated
Twickenham Stadium - U2, London,
Sat 8 Jul 2017, 18:00
Type: Wires Group Presale Ticket
Details: M35, Row 59, Seats: 318-319
Ticket Price: £170.00 x 2 = £340.00
would like to get as close to the face value as possible. they are tickets i can email as a pdf.
I understand what your saying, but the number of people who are actually willing to travel outside of their state for a U2 show is tiny. Again, at best a few hundred for a city like Phoenix. So by announcing the Phoenix show late, Phoenix lost a few hundred people in ticket sales because they went to LA or San Diego already. Losing 500 in ticket sales is not a relevant loss and that's assuming all these people were unwilling to see U2 again in their hometown.
Bottom line, Phoenix and Southern California do not have any significant impact on each other when it comes to concerts. Each are separate markets that are not impacted by the other.
Could a show in San Diego impact LA or LA impact San Diego, that might be possible. But Phoenix is too far away.
DRay9911
Rock n' Roll Doggie FOB
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- 8,308
Thanks for spelling Tucson, correctly. Seriously.
Kinda sucks that Phoenix got dicked around and ended up being a fall back plan. Things are probably much different if it's a first leg show or an original second leg stop.
I always knew the 3 days when the show could be were going to be tough to make due to work. I have a GA ticket and I live on the east side of town. So east Tucson to west Phoenix on a weeknight when I'm leaving for San Diego 2 days later...
Unless something crazy happens, I wont be going. But according to the latest ticket map, it doesn't look like anyone else is either.
This is a really good point. Any major city that isn't included in the itinerary is going to have a decent handful of fans who will travel to another. And any city that is added late to the itinerary is going to miss out on many of those fans, who will already have plans - tickets, hotels, flights - to go somewhere included in the original announcement. Some really hardcore fans are obviously adding Phoenix to their JT30 jaunt, but most people from Las Vegas, SLC, or wherever who have decided to travel somewhere for this tour will have already chosen a show elsewhere. That's an obvious hit to Phoenix's sales that probably accounts for a good thousand or two tickets.
Born and raised. Bear Down!
This is the exact scenario I had in my head.
Cons:
Approximately 3 hour drive each way once you account for rush hour traffic and stadium mess.
Need another day/half day off, unless you've got seats and leave right after work.
Work the next morning.
Just spent $1000-1500 (maybe more, maybe less) for the upcoming show in SD.
Or:
Just enjoy the SD weekend you've already planned and spent the money for that's just 3 days later without any additional hassles. Repeat this algorithm for people from SLC, Denver, Vegas, etc.
I live in Phoenix now, and I'll be at the show. Don't get me wrong, as a Tucsonan it pains me to defend Phoenix, but I think if there is any criticism to be levied about how slow the show is selling, it's not the fans, it's the late announcement that is hurting ticket sales right now.
Going to be a great show, there will be plenty of fans. I have faith.
Edit: Forgot to mention, from one fan to another, get your ass to the show! I'll buy you a beer
Wide Awake n AZ
The Fly
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Bear Down, indeed.
Though I never got the Phoenix/Tucson battle. I went from Flag to Tucson, loved it, and have never really minded Phoenix.
The UA/ASu battles? Those, I get. The Phoenix/Tucson battles for those not around when the school/ASH were handed out? I don't participate in those.
As for the impact of LA/SD...People who do not really know the west/southwest don't understand that LA is not a big trip to people from Arizona. We go to LA for shows that skip Phoenix all the time. This show is considerably bigger and appeared to be a once in a lifetime show that was definitely not going to Phoenix. Not "may not"...definitely was not. There were definitely more than 500 Phoenix area people who bought LA1, LA2, or SD. People from areas developed before the advent of cars cannot imagine driving 6 hours for a concert. People from older nations can't imagine driving 2 hours for a concert. Arizonans think nothing of jamming over to LA or Vegas for a show. And San Diego is basically Arizona-West (of course, they hate us Zonies, but that's their problem).
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Just spent $1000-1500 (maybe more, maybe less) for the upcoming show in SD.
beer
The average ticket for this show is $120 dollars and your expense in going to San Diego from Arizona is as much as $1,500 dollars. That's more than 10 times the average ticket price. You are a special type of fan when you can put down that much money toward a concert. There are only a few hundred people in most of these cities that would be willing to spend that much money for a single U2 concert.
So there are more than 500 people in the Phoenix area who spent up to $1,500 dollars to go to a single U2 concert in LA or SD? How much more? I was being generous when I said 500 and I think it might be lower than that.
Remember, just because you travel and its what you do and its normal for you does not mean it is for other people. Just think, how many people can you actually name that traveled from Phoenix to LA or SD for this show.
When U2 charge an average ticket price of $100 or $120, it because that is what they feel that market will be able to support in that available city. Charging more than than that will lead to a decline in sales.
So people that are willing to travel 6 hours in a car put down up to $1,500 dollars in other expenses to see a single U2 concert are a very, very, small group of people.
LOL ya. I'm using the concert as an excuse to take the family to SD and spend a few days there. So yes, it will end up about that much +/- few hundred. I imagine that most people that would travel to SD on a Friday for a U2 concert would end up spending the entire weekend there and just make it a weekend.
Here's what my mom and I spent to go to the RB (and I will grant you that it could have been a lot less had we planned it better but still):
Tickets $350/ea. I missed the presale and it sold out before I knew about the show. These were cheap(er) resale seats.
Motel 6 Pasadena $150/one night.
Ubers to and from airport, to and from show etc approx $150.
Flights $350/ea.
That's $1700 for two people for a one night stay.
I could have saved money on the tickets and the flights or even driven with enough time but it just worked out that way. I don't regret it at all, it was a gift between my mom and I and it was a spur of the moment thing, so obviously the cost was higher.
By contrast, I'm flying solo to Detroit and doing GA and sleeping on a friend's couch, total cost should be about $300.
Let's just pretend for one minute I'm from SLC. I'm looking at shows because I have to travel to find one. I see that there's a show in San Diego and I'm able to get everything reasonably priced ahead of time.
2 U2 tickets $200-250
2 airline tickets $400 ($200/ea)
2 nights hotel $400 ($200/ea)
That's $1000 right there and we're not including food, ground transport, etc.
You book the trip. Now Phoenix is announced. You might have gone to Phoenix, but since it was the VERY LAST show announced, you already have plans for SD. Now repeat that for Vegas, Denver and every city in the southwest that might have increased turnout for Phoenix. Is that number 500? Or is it 500/city? I don't know, but it's more than zero.
The_acrobat
Rock n' Roll Doggie VIP PASS
OK, so I was feeling nostalgic and watching through some clips of the 2011 Pittsburgh show that I attended. I came across this, which shows how empty the upper sides were during 360. On this year's tour, they blocked off sections and corralled people into a few different sections, whereas on 360 they seemed to just kinda let people sprawl out wherever. They still had 55,000 there in 2011 whereas they only had 41,000 this year, but just interesting for a comparison.
ChargedVT
Refugee
Same here.. I'm coming to the SD gig all the way from Australia but going to spend a week there and see the sights. Expensive gig but what can you do when they keep skipping your country!
So even if its done cheaply, were talking a price that is somewhere between 5 to 10 times the price of the average ticket at $120. Yes, there are definitely people that do this. I'm one of them. I went to Ireland in 2005 to see the a show in Dublin. I sort of justified that expense though because I then did a 10 day tour of Ireland. But I'm in a very small minority of people that would do that.
So lets take this to the extreme. By not announcing Phoenix early, they lose 500 people from Nevada, 500 from Utah, 500 from Colorado, 500 from New Mexico, and 500 from West Texas who book trips to California instead. That's a total of 2,500 people assuming they would all have preferred to travel to Phoenix instead of southern California which I highly doubt.
If the Phoenix show only sells 32,500 tickets, if they had announced the show early instead of late, they would have sold 35,000 tickets. Is the difference between 32,500 tickets and 35,000 tickets really significant or relevant? Would it impact a journalist or average fans view on how well attended the show was? Looking out across a stadium, can you really see the difference between 32,500 and 35,000?
Numbers like 10,000 or 20,000 make a difference, but not 2,500. Plus I'm sure the real number Phoenix is losing is probably less than half of the 2,500 figure as many people would prefer San Diego and LA over Phoenix for this type of travel.
At several of the 360 shows, many seats were initially empty because people were still going to the bathroom and getting refreshments as the first song started. I think the same video of the stadium lit up might show more people if taken at the mid-point of the show.
standrums
War Child
Still a lot of tickets available for both Twickenham gigs
We're just making up numbers here ?.
I'm sure we can both agree that it would be better for all of us if these shows sell out or at the very least have great turn outs.
I'm still convinced the late announcement hurts. Phoenix is the 5th largest city in the country. Maybe it's fatigue, maybe it's the Tuesday show, maybe it's the late announcement, maybe it's all of the above. And maybe it's July and there's 2 months left but we will see.
You have to realize that the majority of the people going to these concerts buy the average price tickets and that is it. Most live within one hour drive time of the stadium. Die hard's who travel and stay overnight are a tiny minority.
Phoenix by the way is only the 12th largest metro area in the country not the 5th. Its also hurt by the fact that its rather isolated out there in the Desert. Not a lot of small communities like you have in the North East going from one major metro area to another in the southwest.
womanfish
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
How can you tell the amount left? The first show looks like very few left. i could only pull up limited tix at the highest price point.
Hard to tell on the second, but definitely no cheaper tix left, or GA
The first one sold out so they are probably production tickets going on sale.
The 2nd date at one point you couldn't get any tickets but a couple of months ago the only thing available were the most expensive seats
Catman
Rock n' Roll Doggie
As a Louisiana native, I can assure you I wouldn't have made the trip to Tampa lol (encountered a few fans from New Orleans while there, too). Considering the band's reluctance to tour here at all this century, it was a bit baffling to see they'd announce the N.O. date after we'd already flocked out of state to see them o_0
The_acrobat
Rock n' Roll Doggie VIP PASS
I definitely think the late announcement hurt sales. Had this Phoenix show been announced with all the first leg JT shows, it probably would've sold out just because it would've been part of the wave of that initial hype and enthusiasm for the event. These 3rd leg shows aren't selling as well partly because of that reason. I also believe this is why Denver 2015 sold so poorly, it was just tacked on as an afterthought after they realized they weren't going to be able to add anymore Los Angeles shows.
They're going to have to do some price slashing in the upper levels at some of these shows, but they'll still have over 40,000 at all of the shows I would imagine.
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