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Old 05-13-2010, 03:56 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by VintagePunk View Post
I'm sorry IYS, but this made me laugh.

I have been surprised at the amount of negative reaction online (other sites, not here) to this episode. Just stunned. I don't get where it's coming from, because I felt like this one provided so many answers! This series has never been one that spoon feeds you information, or takes you by the hand and walks you from point A to point B, and I'm not sure why people would expect them to do so at this point.

I wonder if it's because some of these questions have been left hanging for so long that people have created their own answers, so they're just not happy when the ones we've been given are different from what they've already formed in their own minds. I theorize, but I don't become so invested in my own theories that I'm pissy when they turn out to be wrong. It's more like on the rare occasion when I am right, I go "yay, I got one." I realize that I'm not the one telling the story, and I'm willing to sit back and let them tell it, and enjoy the journey they're taking me on.

A lot of the objections to, and questions about the episode that people still have can be easily answered if you listen carefully to dialogue from this episode, or think back to episodes from the last season. It's like the majority of Lost viewers have taken a stupid pill, and they can't comprehend the simplest of things.

Also, people have been bitching about them spending time on this episode, period. In my view, it was necessary - they needed to tell this part of the story, it's essential. Many are saying it should have come last season, or earlier this season. Uh, no. That would have ruined the ambiguity of the two brothers. I think the timing was ideal.

Anyway, coming back to read this thread after going elsewhere online is like a breath of fresh air. I'm glad you guys are so reasonable about everything. Even IYS's objections are far more intelligent than the vast majority out there.
I agree 100% here.

Note to self : Do not log onto Lostpedia again until 1 year after finale.
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Old 05-13-2010, 03:59 PM   #122
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I ( inadvertently) saw [ NOT Posting ] The TITLE for next weeks ep!

Of course, this is part of what would more or less BE expected but to see it as a title.....
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Old 05-13-2010, 04:23 PM   #123
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I ( inadvertently) saw [ NOT Posting ] The TITLE for next weeks ep!

Of course, this is part of what would more or less BE expected but to see it as a title.....
Next week's title is so ambiguous, it could be in reference to many many different "options"
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Old 05-13-2010, 04:29 PM   #124
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As I told my Lost fan friends-- i had to print out these pages cause i didn't have time to read them yesterday ( I don't have Net @ home yet) So here's some reactions (inseveral up coming posts) to stuff people have posted......
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Originally Posted by lazarus View Post
I just want to say that I've maintained all along that Jacob is a grade-A BITCH, and I feel vindicated for cheering when he died. He did EVERYTHING WRONG in this entire episode. Momma's boy, tattletale, wouldn't believe the story about his true parentage, wouldn't listen to MIB explaining that the mother slaughtered all the "others", and then puts some crazy-ass curse on his brother and turns him into a monster.
Sometimes some people DO react intensely when their WHOLE World View is suddenly turned upside down.

Each of those things (except the tattle telling) was a world shaker for Jacob.
I'm not excusing him beating the crap out of his Bro/MIB. Tho after killing their "mom" that..... as they sometimes say.... "a jury wouldn't convict .."

The term "mama's boy" did flash through my mind.... but....then I stopped myself.... there re levels and aspects even to that being labeling a boy/man just so.

What ever in Jacob's make-up at that time ... MIB seems to be smarter, more ?speculative, ?skeptical, and he COULD see their real mom.... ya know ...
..... if all he has had (till the boys see the other men hunting)..... is his mom and his bro to compare/model after/NOT model after etc......
.... that's NOT exactly.... a BIG POOL of Examples to work with.

I just think maybe ( and i certainly hope to get the dvd's for this out of the library one day (after i return a book I can't find! ).... Jacob deservers more that a "flipant" "mam's boy" label.
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Old 05-13-2010, 04:42 PM   #125
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The only rebuttal is that the Adam and Eve thing might be the oldest "mystery" in the show's existence. While it's something that big fans wonder about all the time, I imagine the non-obsessed but steady viewers may have forgotten about it.

Basically, I agree with you though. That "remember THIS?!" device is always tacky.
What about the Tawet Statue? I want to know about that.

I'm pretty obsessed with the show, but I jumped on in a regular way some when around the last half or third of Season Four(4) when I finally got my own TV (vs a roommate hogging the one in the living room) and because of other things didn't see all of S5 ( most of it, tho) in first run. I have watched almost all the eps they've been repeating 2/per Sat night for the last 2 plus years.

So my viewing of these characters/situations etc are somewhat skewered compared to all of you who have watched it all or mostly from the beginning. And my DVD portable broke around 3 years ago, and didn't have the $ to replace it- so that nixed them from the library.

SO I"D FORGOTTEN about "Adam & Eve", I've had so many other things to tie & piece together, react to etc!
I'm glad they did reference it.
As soon as they started to mention it I said.."oh, yeaaahhhhhh!"
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Old 05-13-2010, 04:55 PM   #126
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I'm still not happy that to illustrate a character's past or change of heart, they show them or turn them into whiny bitches--Richard, Ben, MIB, Jacob, etc. I don't remember this from any early episode, even with Nikki and Paulo.
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........Jack = Luke, as in whiny bitch and "I've got to save you!"..........
What IS it with you two, poeple?

I don't know what you're like in real life........but it seems for the Lost Characters you're mentioning here.......

....Are you subscribing them to the "stiff upper lip"/ "suck it up" way of living for the male characters ?

There are some times (for safety's sake at the time) you might have to do that. With all these things each character has gone through they sometimes DO have a right to complain-- at least sometimes!

OIf course again with my piecing this show together in a shorter & mixed up tway.....
..I'm sure you feel the annoyance at the characters during some of the complaining because it could be subscribed to "you MADE your bed, now LIE IN it!" feeling.

Even then one should maybe sometimes have some compassion for such situations.
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Old 05-13-2010, 05:16 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by UnforgettableLemon View Post
I was generally satisfied. We've known for some time that electromagnetism was going to be the source of everything; they've just attributed some of its mystery to a metaphysical doorway between life and death/life force. This is something that people have speculated about the island for some time anyway. It is a little rushed, but I guess that's the cost of prolonging the ambiguity.

I think the only thing I find disappointing was the MIB being able to conceptualize the Donkey Wheel; no matter how special he is, I don't think he or even Daniel MFing Faraday/Widmore could have arrived at that idea in 43 A.D.

Beyond that, I'm okay. As I said, tying the life-force to the exotic matter seems to me like it was bound to happen in order to explain the apparitions and ghosts. I'm guessing we might get more elaboration on how MIB's soul/spirit was separated from his body/combined with the light, but either way I'm okay.

What I really liked about the show was the undermining of the black/white dichotomy just after we'd been led to believe that MIB was straight up evil. The mommy-issues approach might be a bit trite, but again, we've known it was coming. What I find more interesting is the light this sheds on Jacob's motivations. Despite being the quintessential momma's boy (or in my wife's words, "sissy" and "pussy"), he is still out to prove her wrong. That he snapped and went apeshit on his brother just makes it more personal. He needs to prove the possibility of good in humanity to himself as much as to his brother. It ties him into the show's redemption theme and humanizes what I was concerned would be a simple demigod figure.

My wife, on the other hand, was a bit devastated. I'm content to let this be about characters and relationships, but she wants explanations. I like the explanations; though they're a bit new-agey, at least they're not going the midichlorian route.
1>
didn't MIB say more or less "we've got some brilliant minds here (in the village)". So it wasn't just hjim thining the donkey wheel up?

2>
Like your idea of tying into the redemption theme and Jacob trying to prove her and his(then) actions wrong - so he is thinking somewhat for himself once he gets on that POV.

3>
I very much like the relationships back-storying explanations, but I'm also with your wife as I DO want as many explanations as I can get! It's the Science Fan & Science Fiction fan in me!
When you World Build (in just about any story telling endeavor) it should try to be as consistant as possible, and provide explanations so it's believable WITH IN it's own framework.

I'm partly a "new agey" person myself, but they could have done some more even with in that POV explanation-wise.
I HOPE some more of that will be shown/explained before it ends!

4>
at least they didn't go "the Midichlorons route"
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Old 05-13-2010, 05:17 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by toscano View Post
Next week's title is so ambiguous, it could be in reference to many many different "options"
True!
It's still a pretty intense as a title, I'd say!
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Old 05-13-2010, 05:22 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by VintagePunk View Post
The stones from the game at the beginning didn't make me think of Adam and Eve. Honestly, I'd forgotten that the stones were connected with them. For me, it brought to mind the whole Locke and Walt backgammon thing, and Jacob and MIB as adults with the stones. Like Thora, Adam and Eve didn't even occur to me till the mother died. Showing it on the previouslies definitely would have ruined it for me.


ETA - Lost props to be auctioned off later this summer:

Lost Auction Preview - Profiles in History
Oh, see I also forgot about the stones in the bag part! AND maybe I didn't even really catch THAT in the first place !

I also thot of the B & W stones immediately with the adult Jacob & MIB!

AND YEAH having that IN a recap would of busted it up for me, too!
SO Glad they didn't!

OOOOO...props!
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Old 05-13-2010, 05:25 PM   #130
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oh well gotta get outt of here soon.... i'll print out pages 7 , 8 & 9

see ya's tomorropw!
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Old 05-13-2010, 05:49 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by dazzledbylight View Post
What IS it with you two, poeple?

I don't know what you're like in real life........but it seems for the Lost Characters you're mentioning here.......

....Are you subscribing them to the "stiff upper lip"/ "suck it up" way of living for the male characters ?

There are some times (for safety's sake at the time) you might have to do that. With all these things each character has gone through they sometimes DO have a right to complain-- at least sometimes!

OIf course again with my piecing this show together in a shorter & mixed up tway.....
..I'm sure you feel the annoyance at the characters during some of the complaining because it could be subscribed to "you MADE your bed, now LIE IN it!" feeling.

Even then one should maybe sometimes have some compassion for such situations.
I'll take Richard as the example, although it's been covered here before.

Richard has been one of the most interesting yet laconic characters since he was introduced (Season 2? 3?). The episode this season where he reacts to the situation with Jacob and such, he completely broke character.

And this illustrates my problem with the show this season. I'm no longer that interested in answers. I've known many of those won't be coming since Season 2. But, it has been the complexity of the characters and their relationships with each other that has been the most interesting thing to watch, as well as their reactions to the changing circumstances on the island, etc.

So, if in the interest of ending the show, Lindelof/Cuse are having characters break with their nature, that's disappointing. I know it comes from being short on time, but I think they painted themselves into a corner somewhat by setting the endpoint too early. The characters they have created and nurtured for years deserve the time to react based on their nature.

That's my 2 cents. I have been invested in the show since I watched the entire 1st Season on DVD just prior to the start of the 2nd Season. I've put in the time, so I think I'm allowed to be a little disappointed and call "whiny bitch" occasionally.
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Old 05-13-2010, 08:05 PM   #132
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I just hit play on the latest episode of Lost and the first thing I need to ask is what in the fuck is CJ Craig doing on my island? Seriously now is not the time to introduce recognized actors for bit parts.
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Old 05-13-2010, 08:20 PM   #133
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^I saw this post from the main page, and got all excited, because I thought it said it was posted by "Darlton." I thought someone created a Darlton alter to bitch us out, or something.

It was only Dalton. Sigh.
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Old 05-13-2010, 09:17 PM   #134
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i didn't make the clip. i found it this morning

I loved that clip.
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Old 05-13-2010, 09:40 PM   #135
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seems like there is a lot Lost love in this thread

I was on board before day 1

I heard about this show and anxiously waited for the debut.

Loved it. It was in a league of it's own. Unpredictable, but top notch.
(I have watched every episode, despite the deteriorating quality)

I remember at the end of season one or perhaps during season two there was pretty good discussion in here about how this would play out. Some thought it was just a dream, or purgatory, or some other non-existent place. The creators said everything was real, in the physical world and had a rational explanation.


Well, if I or anyone predicted what they are actually feeding us now, we would have been shouted down as ass-hats for suggesting fantasy - bullshit.

but, since you have been fed this one little spoonful at a time, over the last few seasons many of you are saying, ummm, delicious, this is yummy.


sorry, it is crap. Please tell me why a depiction of the era 40 AD, looks at most like the 1800s? They could have, with a little effort, made a more credible set, and costumes. And why the fuck are they speaking contemporary English, when it does not exist in any form on the planet, yet?

At least the Richard, flash back, made some effort for the proper depictions, costumes, languages, etc.

Some language that sounded like Aramaic or similar would have lent some credibility and help sell the concept, even with JJ Cregg.

She was not the problem, it was the writing and production. Crap -
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