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Old 05-12-2010, 09:44 PM   #106
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i remember i missed the finale of 90210 because i went to my cousin's high school graduation. but i taped it
I don't have a VCR or a PVR at my home, otherwise I would. I think I've figured everything out, so I should be able to see the episode that night.

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Help me remember who has seen the the young versions of Jacob/MIB

Sawyer is the only one I can think of but I think there are others.
Richard has definitely seen him.

Ben, maybe? I can't remember who else.
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Old 05-12-2010, 10:06 PM   #107
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Nobody has seen the young MiB, just to clarify. We've seen a blond Jacob and a dark-haired Jacob. Same actor.
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Old 05-12-2010, 10:22 PM   #108
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It's really interesting how the show is so different for each type of viewer. There are the casual fans who only watch week to week and then there are the totally rabid fans who could probably tell you how many times Ben blinked during any given episode. I would fall somewhere in between. Sometimes I forget that not everyone remembers a lot of the smaller details.
I've only watched almost all episodes once. I've watched a handful from the first season twice, but that's about it. I do read about it voraciously online though, read several message board, blogs and recaps, and follow the theories. My daughter's a huge fan too, and we discuss it ad nauseum during each season. She started a huge rewatch a month or so before the season started, while she was still away at school. When she came home, she asked if I wanted to join her, and I said no, I'd rather wait till after this season's over and watch the whole series from start to finish.

She has a much better memory for minute details and timing and sequences of events than I do, and I once commented on this, and told her she makes me feel dumb, because I have to look things up usually. She told me it's because she's seen most episodes two or three times. That made me feel better.

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Help me remember who has seen the the young versions of Jacob/MIB

Sawyer is the only one I can think of but I think there are others.
MIB - no one.

Jacob - Flocke, Sawyer and Desmond have seen him. He appeared to Flocke while Richard was there, but Richard didn't see him.
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Old 05-13-2010, 02:02 AM   #109
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There is one thing I think that was really brilliant about this episode that I haven't seen anyone touch on yet, unless I missed it. But I like that the writers actually managed to finally fuse the science vs. faith concept. With the cave (and other places on/under the island): the cave seems to be (maybe) one of many pockets of electromagnetic energy. To the ancients this would be seen as a magical mystical place, even though they had managed to grasp at it's importance to life and the Earth, it was still a mystical thing that needed to be protected for the Earth's/man's safety. Dharma saw the electromagnetic pockets too, but from a scientific viewpoint, but again realizing it's importance and danger as well. I don't have every detail of this thought through in relation to every thing we've seen over the years... but this concept as a whole just made sense and seems to click and feel right.
MIB seems to be the bridge in the gap between faith and science... maybe one of the first scientists/genius minds of his time... he "got" it, from the scientific POV. His "mother" asked how he knew this wheel would work... she looked at him like she could never understand this. He answered, "because I'm special." I think he was.
Or I could be totally wrong!!!
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Old 05-13-2010, 03:45 AM   #110
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I might also add that smockey is the most overdue character from the original first episode to get his flashback!
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Old 05-13-2010, 08:09 AM   #111
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ok. don't know if this clip is really part of the finale. so i'm adding spoiler tags:

 

don't click unless you REALLY want to be spoiled

 

i'm serious. once you watch it you can't go back

 

jack was able to go back, but you won't be able to

 

last chance




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Old 05-13-2010, 09:54 AM   #112
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^ Not sure what's funnier, the clip or me having to admit that I couldn't resist peeking.

Did you make that clip tho? It seems to mirror a crazy comment made a while back about them having a basic premise and then using viewer feedback to wing it as they went along..I guess more than a few people felt that way at times.

Have to agree with bonocomet, I think they've found a way to fuse the science + religious mysticism part that was becoming frustrating to reconcile, even if MIB's "discovery" of a way to harness/tamper with the island's power is a bit of a stretch in terms of believability. I liked this episode, anyways.
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Old 05-13-2010, 10:18 AM   #113
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i didn't make the clip. i found it this morning
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Old 05-13-2010, 01:19 PM   #114
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From an interview with Cuse and Lindelof:

Getting back to Adam and Eve for a second, can you talk me through the thought process of including that flashback to "House of the Rising Sun." Was there ever a thought of not having it in there and hoping the viewer could fill in the blanks, or did you just feel that the skeletons were too obscure a mystery to not have that extra context?

DL: The reason that we put it in certainly wasn't because we thought it was too obscure and we wanted to hit people over the heads with it. It was more a matter of, here's an episode where our characters don't appear in it at all, and we wanted to make it clear to the audience that this little family drama, this dysfunctional relationship between these three people is really responsible for everything that's happening to the passengers of Oceanic 815. We wanted to illustrate that by, at the very end of the show saying, "Oh, right, Jack and Kate and Locke are affected by the fact that Mother decided to raise her kids this way, and Jacob ended up bringing these people to the island." The idea was to say that this chapter of the series is significant to the story we've been telling you, and that the series is about the survivors of Oceanic 815. To have an episode that they did not appear in at all was never our intention.

CC: We also liked the juxtaposition of what those characters were like in "House of the Rising Sun" versus where they are now. We felt it was interesting for the audience to see the growth, the change, the evolution, the degree to which these characters had been affected by their time on the island. And we felt that the most effective way to do that was to recontextualize the Adam and Eve discovery by replaying that scene. It really provided a contrast that shows you how these characters have evolved.


I can buy that.

The whole interview:

Exclusive interview: Lost producers Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse talk Across the Sea - HitFix.com
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Old 05-13-2010, 01:33 PM   #115
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I'm incredibly pleased that so many people far and wide are so incredibly angry about that interview. Some good questions and some rarer good answers, too, but like what douche bags they perhaps unintentionally sound. Somewhat concerned that they are so vehemently pre-apologizing for the finale, but I remain hopeful. All this could still work. Maybe.
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Old 05-13-2010, 01:55 PM   #116
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Sorry, that picture just makes me laugh.

But anyway, I don't agree. I think they are basically saying you can't please everyone.
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Old 05-13-2010, 02:12 PM   #117
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I think I also think about LOST like this. The show asks a a lot of questions that mankind has basically been asking since the beginning. No one has all the answers and this includes the makers of LOST. The show hasn't been about getting these answers, but about exploring the way we ask, think about, and answer them individually. But most importantly they've done it in a way that's been FUN for 6 years.
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Old 05-13-2010, 02:34 PM   #118
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I remember when Lost first started telling my wife something along the lines of "this will be one of those shows that never answers anything and will keep dragging out as long as ratings are OK, then it will die off without any true revelations and a small hard core group of fans will start petitions to keep it on the air"

I'm glad they're resolving/answering things. They may not be what everyone wants out of it, but the writers are in a damned if they do, damned if they don't position.

There's no way they'll come up with something that makes everyone happy, in fact even if they come up with something that makes 50% of the viewers happy they'll be doing well.

I'm sad it's coming to an end, but I've enjoyed the ride, and nothing that comes in the finale will make me think it's been nothing short of a brilliant tV show.

The Seinfeld finale sucked, but it doesn't take away from what the show was.

My pre-order for Seasons1-6 Blu-Ray is already on the books.
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Old 05-13-2010, 02:43 PM   #119
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I'm incredibly pleased that so many people far and wide are so incredibly angry about that interview. Some good questions and some rarer good answers, too, but like what douche bags they perhaps unintentionally sound. Somewhat concerned that they are so vehemently pre-apologizing for the finale, but I remain hopeful. All this could still work. Maybe.
Who are all these people you're talking about? Are you in some whiner support group?

I thought they were speaking as objectively as possible and giving examples about other shows they enjoyed, and while they acknowledged their responsibility to the fans, they wanted to make it clear they were doing this on their own terms.

You're so obsessed with making them your antagonists that everything you experience with the show is through that biased filter. It's sad, really.
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Old 05-13-2010, 03:26 PM   #120
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Who are all these people you're talking about? Are you in some whiner support group?
I'm sorry IYS, but this made me laugh.

I have been surprised at the amount of negative reaction online (other sites, not here) to this episode. Just stunned. I don't get where it's coming from, because I felt like this one provided so many answers! This series has never been one that spoon feeds you information, or takes you by the hand and walks you from point A to point B, and I'm not sure why people would expect them to do so at this point.

I wonder if it's because some of these questions have been left hanging for so long that people have created their own answers, so they're just not happy when the ones we've been given are different from what they've already formed in their own minds. I theorize, but I don't become so invested in my own theories that I'm pissy when they turn out to be wrong. It's more like on the rare occasion when I am right, I go "yay, I got one." I realize that I'm not the one telling the story, and I'm willing to sit back and let them tell it, and enjoy the journey they're taking me on.

A lot of the objections to, and questions about the episode that people still have can be easily answered if you listen carefully to dialogue from this episode, or think back to episodes from the last season. It's like the majority of Lost viewers have taken a stupid pill, and they can't comprehend the simplest of things.

Also, people have been bitching about them spending time on this episode, period. In my view, it was necessary - they needed to tell this part of the story, it's essential. Many are saying it should have come last season, or earlier this season. Uh, no. That would have ruined the ambiguity of the two brothers. I think the timing was ideal.

Anyway, coming back to read this thread after going elsewhere online is like a breath of fresh air. I'm glad you guys are so reasonable about everything. Even IYS's objections are far more intelligent than the vast majority out there.
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