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Old 02-15-2008, 04:39 AM   #331
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As long as it's not Die Hard 4.0 (especially in terms of aging) this could be ok.

I liked the re-introduction of the character with the old clips, and that hat/Indy's reflection on the car shot (combined with the theme) is great.
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Old 02-15-2008, 10:28 AM   #332
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Quote:
Originally posted by lazarus

And while I won't try to argue that Lucas is a better filmmaker than Spielberg (he is just as good in frame composition though), it's not like Spielberg's direction of Indiana Jones elevates the material into some kind of high artistic circle. There is a lot more import in the shots of SW than what's going on visually in Indy, because Spielberg kicks back and has fun with these films, while Lucas has a much greater agenda with his baby.


this i would disagree with. i don't think there's a thing in Star Wars on par with, say, the white horse to the truck chase in Raiders. there's a two dimensionality and flatness in SW that's nowhere near the inventiveness and dynamism of IJ. though you're right, actually, when it comes to "art" there probably is more in Star Wars, and more genuine pathos (juvenalia aside). but it's the looseness, the fleet-of-foot that is such a kick in IJ, and it's the gravitas that Lucas tried to inject into the NT that weighs the whole thing down. much of Ep. 2 is just a slog to get through.

wow, i'm not used to geeking out this much.
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Old 02-15-2008, 10:35 AM   #333
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511



wow, i'm not used to geeking out this much.

I've learned to cope with it


Last night my brother in law called me so we could have an in depth discussion of the trailer. We both loved it.

I wonder if some theaters would do some sort of rerelease of the original 3 before the 4th one comes out. That would be AWESOME.
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Old 02-15-2008, 12:11 PM   #334
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I wonder if some theaters would do some sort of rerelease of the original 3 before the 4th one comes out. That would be AWESOME.
That WOULD be awesome!!
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Old 02-15-2008, 12:28 PM   #335
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While I'd also agree that Spielberg is a greater director than Lucas, I've actually warmed up to Lucas a great deal since all my long discussions with Laz on these boards. Now, I still don't give two shits about the Star Wars films anymore, but I think you're underestimating them a bit.

So far as action set-pieces, I'd say there isn't anything in the Indy films that compares to the Trench Run, The final dual or space battle from Jedi, the Darth Maul fight in Ep. 1, the opening space battle in Ep 3, or hell, even the arena piece from Ep. 2. if I were to concede to anything from Lucas' films being superior in this debate, it would be in the action department. On top of it his films really are beautifully shot, and there isn't much in modern cinema (LOTR aside) that compares to the ambition behind the prequel trilogy. And anyone here would know how well I like to award ambition in filmmaking.

(Wow, I can't believe I'm actually defending Lucas here) But going back to the Spielberg comment, sure he's a damn talented director, but the Indy series is one of the last examples I'd point to supporting his skill. Raiders is a near-masterpiece, sure, but I still maintain that a lot of people are over-praising the rest of the series. Temple of Doom borders on "The Lost World" levels of suck, and The Last Crusade is little more than an amusing distraction in the Spielberg canon. I'd hardly call those two films showcases of Spielberg's artistic prowess, and I'd also say that Lucas' achievement even in the prequel trilogy trumps those two picture.
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Old 02-15-2008, 01:16 PM   #336
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i find far more humor and heart in "last crusade" than i do in the NT -- the father/son relationship is perfect, and it deepens the character immensely. it's worlds better written than the SW movies.

i'm not a big fan of "Doom," but i think the action sequence preceding the mining cars, as well as the opening sequence in the Shanghai night club, and the chopping of the bridge, top most of the NT. agree with some of the NT sequences you've pulled out, especially the battle with Darth Maul, and for me, that's the only moment in PM that approaches the mystery and wonder of the OT. especially the point when Obi-Wan is trapped behind the red lasers (forgive my shit descriptions) and watches Liam Nesson get killed.

i'd say nearly every action set piece in "Raiders" trumps anything in SW, except for the trench scene. and i do like the final space battle from Jedi, as well as the lightsabers in Empire. but every action sequence in "Raiders" -- from the rolling ball to the Cairo market to the guy with the sword to the amazing Nepal bar fight to the showstopping truck sequence -- is iconic. i'd say, as action movies go, it is by far the most imitated, influential, and blatantly ripped-off movie in the genre.

and what's amazing about Raiders is how, after 2 hours of perhaps the most inventive, imaginative action ever put to celluloid, it goes for a somber ending with the hero literally tied to the stake, and then it ends with what might even be the most iconic shot from the film that subverts all the action and importance that you've just watched. all that for something that winds up in a big warehouse? genius!

but, anyway, i love both series. i do. i guess i see Star Wars as a wondrous story that's mostly poorly executed, where i see IJ as examples of where pop, thrill-seeking filmmaking achieves almost artistic highs in the complexity, fluidity, coherence, and multi-dimensionality of the action.
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Old 02-15-2008, 01:42 PM   #337
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Irvine

I think I'm going to watch all three Indiana Jones this weekend to get myself pumped.
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Old 02-15-2008, 01:54 PM   #338
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can you believe that Memphis hasn't seen *any* of the Old Trilogy or the Indiana Jones movies?!?!?!

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Old 02-15-2008, 01:57 PM   #339
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I can rewatch all 3 original Star Wars films time and time again, and can say the same for Sith, a little less so for Clones and not all that much for Menace.

I can rewatch the first IJ film time and time again, and that's it.

I hate to jump into such a well argued debate with such a distilled post, but, that's what it boils down to me.

Also, IJ does not have a "what the fuck" moment that can compare to the revelation that Vader is Luke's Dad. Sorry, but if you went to see that film in the theater, upon its release, you were blown away by that. Might seem silly or taken for granted now, but at the time it was a big deal.

I love the first IJ film very dearly, but find the 2nd to be almost unwatchable for me now, and the 3rd, if I was bored and flipping around, I might land and stay on it for a bit.

All that being said, I'm a bigger Spielberg fan than some in here, and I very much hope that the fourth Indy installment is enjoyable, of course.
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Old 02-15-2008, 02:05 PM   #340
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Quote:
Originally posted by No spoken words
Also, IJ does not have a "what the fuck" moment that can compare to the revelation that Vader is Luke's Dad.
INDY! They're digging in the wrong place!
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Old 02-15-2008, 02:08 PM   #341
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INDY! They're digging in the wrong place!
I love Sala.
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Old 02-15-2008, 02:08 PM   #342
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Salsa
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Old 02-15-2008, 02:09 PM   #343
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Originally posted by elevated_u2_fan
Salsa
Seltzer
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Old 02-15-2008, 02:25 PM   #344
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Oh, it's spelled "Sallah".

Duh, me.
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Old 02-15-2008, 02:34 PM   #345
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I really want Lucas to direct another film soon. I'm curious as fuck to see what he could do outside of the Star Wars universe these days.
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