What if God forgives everyone?

[coemgen]

According to the Rev. Carlton Pearson's "Gospel of Inclusion," we're all going to heaven. Period.

http://www.thislife.org/pages/descriptions/05/304.html

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/127/story_12772.html

According to Jesus himself though, we're not all going to heaven.

John 14:6 "Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

and

John 6:40 "For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."

 

[Dreadsox]

According to Jesus himself though, we're not all going to heaven.

John 14:6 "Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

Of all of the Gospels I dislike John the most.

I also believe with my heart that this is one of the most abused scripture verses EVER.

 

[Irvine511]

them hindus are gonna fry!

 

[BVS]

I also believe with my heart that this is one of the most abused scripture verses EVER.

I got into the bar the other night through the bouncer Larry, and I didn't even know him.

No one ever tells me what "though" means.

 

[Dreadsox]

I got into the bar the other night through the bouncer Larry, and I didn't even know him.

No one ever tells me what "though" means.

It makes more sense to me this way. Rather than using it to condemn other faiths and the my faith is better than yours.

 

[Dreadsox]

Why is it that we have to hold what we believe to be true above others revelations of the truth?

God know's my heart better than anyone other than myself. Isn't that enough when we face judgement?

 

[Ormus]

Why is it that we have to hold what we believe to be true above others revelations of the truth?

God know's my heart better than anyone other than myself. Isn't that enough when we face judgement?

No.

 

[coemgen]

Here's the thing though. If God went through all that trouble to come down here, live a sinless life among us, died one of the most horrible deaths, and then rose again from the dead -- all to allow us to be forgiven for our sins and to spend eternity with God, do you really think he'd just let us say "Ah, that's not for me," and still let us get to heaven?

 

[BVS]

Here's the thing though. If God went through all that trouble to come down here, live a sinless life among us, died one of the most horrible deaths, and then rose again from the dead -- all to allow us to be forgiven for our sins and to spend eternity with God, do you really think he'd just let us say "Ah, that's not for me," and still let us get to heaven?

I don't think anyone is saying that. But can you say someone who lives a life of love will be denied heaven because they didn't at one time in their life claim Jesus as their saviour?

 

[coemgen]

It makes more sense to me this way. Rather than using it to condemn other faiths and the my faith is better than yours.

Think about what he's saying though. "I am the way" -- to what?
"I am the truth" what does this say about others? "I am the life" what does this mean? "Nobody gets to the father but by me." To me, you could reword that to say "You must go through me to get to God." I know it's a hard thing to swallow that it's an exclusive statement, but how else do you interpret it? It sounds kind of final to me.

 

[Irvine511]

muslims, too. gonna fry!

 

[BVS]

"You must go through me to get to God."

But what does that mean? What does "through me" mean?

 

[coemgen]

I don't think anyone is saying that. But can you say someone who lives a life of love will be denied heaven because they didn't at one time in their life claim Jesus as their saviour?

That's a great question to ask and an important one.

If you're going to go that way, then we have to come up with a standard of "good" or a standard of "loving."

Let's do that now. We'll put God at the very top, because the Scriptures tell us he IS love and he is holy and pure. I think he deserves the top spot.

Now, who's at the bottom? How about Hitler?

So then we have
God
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
Hitler

(how do you like my visual?) Now let's think of someone really good on Earth. Mother Theresa comes to mind. Heck, if people live a good life where they serve other people, they're called a "Mother Theresa." She lived a humble life serving the poor. She even accepted a life of poverty to help those who were lonely, sick and near death. Where would she go on the visual there? Before we decide that, we need to keep in mind she called herself a sinner who was in desperate need of God's grace.

God
I
I
I
I
How about here: Mother Theresa
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
Hitler

What about someone else who's good. Billy Graham? He said the same thing about himself. He's a sinner. He needs God's forgiveness for all the junk in his life. I personally think he should go one or two notches below Mother Theresa. Where do you think he should go?

OK, now what about you? How do you measure up? Where would you put yourself? I'd put myself closer to Hitler. (I know many of you would put me there, too. Now, what about Christ. He lived a sinless life and claimed to be God. If this is true, he's sharing the top spot with God.

So now what's good? What's good enough? Is "good" enough?

Through his sinless life, death and ressurrection, Christ conquered death. He overcame it. The Bible tells us "death is the wages of sin." Since he was God, too, his sacrificial death and resurrection created "the way" to God. A window in the skies. If we believe in what he did and let him be lord of our life, then his righteousness or perfectness is credited to us. Instead of our sinful life (which the Bible says we all are sinful), God sees his sinless life. This is how we get eternal life with God "the life."

So again, he said "I am the WAY, the truth and the LIFE. Nobody gets to the father but by me."

All we have to do is decide if he's the truth like he said he was and then turn our lives over to him if we think he is.

(Sorry this is long and includes a visual)

 

[BVS]

I know people who would be up there with Mother Terresa but would be damned to hell due to some of the posters in here because they never went "through" or knew the "through" due to geography, upbringing, etc...

That's not the God I want to spend time with...

 

[coemgen]

Well, that's your decision. You're free to believe what you will.

I should've added that the chart is where we'd place people and ourselves. The truth is we're all much, much lower and we're all closer together than that if God truly is pure, holy and love himself. We may live by the law, do "good" things, but what about our hearts? How often do we have jealousy, hate, rage, lust, envy, deceit, etc. in us? That's where we really should be looking. That's where we're all more alike than different. That's where we all fall short.

 

[coemgen]

I know people who would be up there with Mother Terresa but would be damned to hell due to some of the posters in here because they never went "through" or knew the "through" due to geography, upbringing, etc...

That's not the God I want to spend time with...

I should add, too, that God is seeking us all out. He's also fair and just.

 

[Irvine511]

That's a great question to ask and an important one.

If you're going to go that way, then we have to come up with a standard of "good" or a standard of "loving."

Let's do that now. We'll put God at the very top, because the Scriptures tell us he IS love and he is holy and pure. I think he deserves the top spot.

Now, who's at the bottom? How about Hitler?

So then we have
God
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
Hitler

(how do you like my visual?) Now let's think of someone really good on Earth. Mother Theresa comes to mind. Heck, if people live a good life where they serve other people, they're called a "Mother Theresa." She lived a humble life serving the poor. She even accepted a life of poverty to help those who were lonely, sick and near death. Where would she go on the visual there? Before we decide that, we need to keep in mind she called herself a sinner who was in desperate need of God's grace.

God
I
I
I
I
How about here: Mother Theresa
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
Hitler

What about someone else who's good. Billy Graham? He said the same thing about himself. He's a sinner. He needs God's forgiveness for all the junk in his life. I personally think he should go one or two notches below Mother Theresa. Where do you think he should go?

OK, now what about you? How do you measure up? Where would you put yourself? I'd put myself closer to Hitler. (I know many of you would put me there, too. Now, what about Christ. He lived a sinless life and claimed to be God. If this is true, he's sharing the top spot with God.

So now what's good? What's good enough? Is "good" enough?

Through his sinless life, death and ressurrection, Christ conquered death. He overcame it. The Bible tells us "death is the wages of sin." Since he was God, too, his sacrificial death and resurrection created "the way" to God. A window in the skies. If we believe in what he did and let him be lord of our life, then his righteousness or perfectness is credited to us. Instead of our sinful life (which the Bible says we all are sinful), God sees his sinless life. This is how we get eternal life with God "the life."

So again, he said "I am the WAY, the truth and the LIFE. Nobody gets to the father but by me."

All we have to do is decide if he's the truth like he said he was and then turn our lives over to him if we think he is.

(Sorry this is long and includes a visual)

so, like, what aobut Ghandi, or does he get demoted a few noches for not being Christian?

 

[coemgen]

No, that diagram is just based on the "good" we do in life and the "goodness" we have in our hearts. I'd place Ghandi up high, too. I'd say between Mother Theresa and Billy Graham. He still wasn't a perfect person though.

 

[A_Wanderer]

so, like, what aobut Ghandi, or does he get demoted a few noches for not being Christian?

Surely you saw that episode of Bullshit where they went after Ghandi, Mother Theresa and the Dalai Lama.

 

[Dreadsox]

Here's the thing though. If God went through all that trouble to come down here, live a sinless life among us, died one of the most horrible deaths, and then rose again from the dead -- all to allow us to be forgiven for our sins and to spend eternity with God, do you really think he'd just let us say "Ah, that's not for me," and still let us get to heaven?

Yes, I do. I find Christ that incredible.

 

[Dreadsox]

No, that diagram is just based on the "good" we do in life and the "goodness" we have in our hearts. I'd place Ghandi up high, too. I'd say between Mother Theresa and Billy Graham. He still wasn't a perfect person though.

Nor would he claim to be.

But Christ as gatekeeper would not let him in?

This is about forgiveness, not Christianity.

 

[jacobus]

What if God forgives everyone?..then perhaps you sit next to Hitler, Stalin, Saddam, Sharon, Nero, Idi Amin, George W. Bush and other idiotic monsters at breakfast or diner in heaven.

 

[Ormus]

What if God forgives everyone?..then perhaps you sit next to Hitler, Stalin, Saddam, Sharon, Nero, Idi Amin, George W. Bush and other idiotic monsters at breakfast or diner in heaven.

And if you did, would you tell God that you want nothing to do with heaven?

Human justice and vengeance should not be confused with God's idea of justice.

 

[jacobus]

@ormus: i don't believe in GOD...i only trust my conscience. if there is any GOD then such monsters like Hitler, Stalin, G.W. Bush never ever have walked on our blue planet.
which GOD is the true GOD???

 

[A_Wanderer]

And if you did, would you tell God that you want nothing to do with heaven?

Human justice and vengeance should not be confused with God's idea of justice.

What wouldn't those characters like about a cellestial DPRK?

 

[BVS]

I should add, too, that God is seeking us all out. He's also fair and just.

You wouldn't know it from some of his followers in here.

 

[BVS]

Yes, I do. I find Christ that incredible.

 

[coemgen]

You wouldn't know it from some of his followers in here.

Unfortunatley this is the case with all of us Christians — me included. To varying degrees, we tend to mislead people or misrepresent Christ — I would say mostly unintentionaly. Being Christian doesn't mean your perfect.

 

[BVS]

Being Christian doesn't mean your perfect.

I agree, I'm just sick of "believers" who place limits on God due to geography or upbringing...

 

[coemgen]

Yes, I do. I find Christ that incredible.

Even when his statements suggest otherwise?

Here's the thing. Another element to God's goodness can be seen in the idea of free will. In his love for us, God didn't make us robots. He gave us minds to make our own decisions and the ability, to varying degrees, to carry those out. Free will is something he holds sacred. In considering this, he's not going to force anything on us. He's not going to force us to go to heaven. He's not going to force us to go to hell (contrary to popular belief). He's going to present the necessary information to us, and then let us make the decision. The thing is to chose Christ, or reject him. He doesn't send us to hell as a punishment for being bad. It's not like that at all. Hell is simply the total absence of God. The imagery we get in the Bible I think is to create the feeling of what that's like. I don't see it as a litteral place as much as a state of existence. Therefore, I don't see it as somewhere he sends us to, but rather a state we chose to exist in. If you don't want to spend eternity with God, then he won't let you.
I don't think it's just a matter of what bad you did in life or what good you didn't do, but also did you do it your way, or his way. At the root of all our sin is greed. To become a Christian, you are to die to self.
Does that make sense?