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Old 01-15-2002, 10:21 PM   #1
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Want to Read Something Disgusting?

http://www.goacta.org/Reports/defciv.pdf

I'm going to sleep and will have to defer any discussion until tomorrow, but I find this document to be simply disgusting.

Especially revolting are the various quotes that the paper claims to be indicative of the liberal point of view. These are so nauseating for one of two reasons: 1) The quote is either complete extremism ("I cheered when the Pentagon was hit") and not at all representative of the anti-war opinion in general. 2) Many quotes are at best, correct (in my opinion, of course), but at worst completely innocuous! ("We offer this teach-in...as an end to the cycle of global violence")

I've seen some trash since the attacks, but this ranks as the worst. I'd love to hear any debate--in the form of support, argument, or personal threat against my physical well-being
Melon, if you're around, could you chime in?




[This message has been edited by mug222 (edited 01-15-2002).]
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Old 01-15-2002, 11:38 PM   #2
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This takes the cake Mug.

Unbelivable.

DB9

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Old 01-16-2002, 12:20 AM   #3
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In academia, just as in the rest of the world, you'll find plenty of instances of sharp-but-well-researched opinions, and plenty of instances of complete idiocy. Simple as that.
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Old 01-16-2002, 12:43 AM   #4
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Let me ask for a clarification: is the report itself "disgusting"? More disgusting than the instances of extremism it documented?

Yes, the comments are (hopefully) the VERY minority opinion. The article says so:

"Although most faculty presumably shared America's horror and condemnation of the terrorist attacks, some did not."

That doesn't mean that the article is any less right in pointing out the idiocy.

After all, Jerry Falwell's comments were CERTAINLY not representative of the Christian view. Does that make criticisms of Falwell "disgusting"?
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Old 01-16-2002, 01:43 PM   #5
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I will reserve total comment until I read it all. Nonetheless, it seems to be written by a reactionary conservative group, and I will likely be very disgusted with it.

It is my hope that it is really just relegated to a minority opinion and that it doesn't find its way into the mainstream. I have trouble when any group wants to regulate people's thoughts. Just as the majority has a right to applaud the campaign in Afghanistan, the minority has a right to condemn it. It is that right that angers this organization.

Melon

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"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time
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Old 01-16-2002, 01:52 PM   #6
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Okay...call me crazy, but I mostly agree with it. Why I say "mostly" is that I think they are amplifying a non-existent problem. While professors are certainly stating disapproval, I really doubt that most students didn't have an opinion on it.

But what I do agree with is that we need to encourage people to think for themselves. Both sides needed to be heard, both in regards to the patriots and the dissidents. The obvious problem is that we have an academic world that is a "do what you're told" world, with free thought unencouraged.

If you look at the polls on page 6, why I would say it is flawed is that college campuses are typically more international and diverse than in typical American society. The international community is less unanimous in support, just as much as you'd expect Americans abroad not to jump on a nationalist bandwagon, since they don't share the same sentiments.

Plus, if you read on, it states that, even though Harvard was less supportive of the war in September, they are now firm in support as of November. Like I said, this report simply amplifies a fairly non-existent problem, but it does open a fair debate on the objectivity of universities.

And, as for the history requirements they advocate, I am guarded on support with that, due to the fact that most history books I have run into are heavily slanted towards one ideology or another in dealing with the last century. I fear that an improperly taught history bordering on propaganda may be worse than teaching none at all.

Melon

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"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time

[This message has been edited by melon (edited 01-16-2002).]
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