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Old 09-30-2008, 12:56 PM   #721
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We'll try the ones we have enough evidence (they killed soldiers) and keep the rest until the war is over. At some point they can't hold them forever because the war won't last forever.
But McCain said it could last for 100 years.

Why are they detained if we don't have enough evidence to try them?

I love how you easily label everyone a socialist, yet some of your answers border on dictatorship.
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Old 09-30-2008, 12:59 PM   #722
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Wow. Chretien slashed spending and provincial transfer payments, and eliminated the huge deficit left over from the Conservative government, and then ran five consecutive budget surpluses, while implementing tax cuts.

But he was a socialist, right?

I don't know where this myth that conservatives and republicans are the fiscally responsible parties came from, because recent history doesn't demonstrate that, for either nation.
With Green Shift the Liberal party are going to the left. We either have to raise taxes or go into a deficit. The question is how much % of GDP should be in the hands of the government?

Paul Martin was the reason for the control in spending (hence the divide between Chretien and Martin camps within the party). The reform party pushed for balanced budgets (since Alberta's popularity in that area) and the liberals had to act to stay in power. If they didn't they would lose a lot of seats.
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Old 09-30-2008, 01:00 PM   #723
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But McCain said it could last for 100 years.

Why are they detained if we don't have enough evidence to try them?

I love how you easily label everyone a socialist, yet some of your answers border on dictatorship.
Dictatorship would be right if I was saying U.S. citizens should be detained in Guantanemo Bay for their opinions. I don't put U.S. citizens and enemy combatants in the same level.
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Old 09-30-2008, 01:02 PM   #724
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Regardless of whose faction of the party was responsible for it, that's the way it happened, thus undermining your essential argument that's been going on for days that Liberals = socialists. It's simply not true.

You seem to engage in typical neo-con black and white thinking, and that world isn't that simplistic.
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Old 09-30-2008, 01:03 PM   #725
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You gotta love it, only conservatives can turn the word "compassion" into a bad word.
That's becuase "compassion" can be in quotation marks and show a sign of pretention. It's like "fair trade". Some people don't think it's that fair. Compassion via social programs could be a lack of compassion for tax payers.
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Old 09-30-2008, 01:06 PM   #726
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Dictatorship would be right if I was saying U.S. citizens should be detained in Guantanemo Bay for their opinions. I don't put U.S. citizens and enemy combatants in the same level.
But if there is no law or any kind of checks and balances how do we know who's in there? Haven't you and others just been making up the defintions of "enemy combatants" and "battlefield" as you go?
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Old 09-30-2008, 01:12 PM   #727
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Regardless of whose faction of the party was responsible for it, that's the way it happened, thus undermining your essential argument that's been going on for days that Liberals = socialists. It's simply not true.

You seem to engage in typical neo-con black and white thinking, and that world isn't that simplistic.
The left is more socialist than the right. Right? The conservatives want to spend less than the liberals. It just shows that if the right adopts left wing arguments then the left wing parties can start talking about fiscal responsibility. The republicans spent too much in recent years in congress, and the democrats have been no different in the past 2 years so yes the republicans let the conservative wing of the party down.

It now looks like McCain and Palin want to control spending more than Bush wanted to and Republicans in congress in years past. If they don't then they will be no different than Democrats. I would rather have Obama and let the republicans rethink their mission. It's up to them to have enough leadership to say no.
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Old 09-30-2008, 01:13 PM   #728
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With Green Shift the Liberal party are going to the left. We either have to raise taxes or go into a deficit. The question is how much % of GDP should be in the hands of the government?
Now I'm starting to get mad.

Have you even read the Conservatives fucking platform!

They want to do the same thing as the NDP on enviroment. You have no idea what you're saying anymore. You don't have to argue a point you don't know alot about. If something came up that I don't understand, or is a bit over my head, I'd step back let others debate and learn from it. Or go research it.

You follow the Conservatives blindly. Though your good traget practice for some of the liberals on this site. You make all sane thinking conservatives look like back water idiots. Do your friends a favour and stop now.
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Old 09-30-2008, 01:20 PM   #729
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But if there is no law or any kind of checks and balances how do we know who's in there? Haven't you and others just been making up the defintions of "enemy combatants" and "battlefield" as you go?
We do have law and a military tribunal but the civil lawyers think it's too secret and want it to be more public. The difference is that the military wait until they can find the proper time to release them as POW's when the war is done. If the war in Afghanistan, and Iraq is complete then they can be released there. If they want then to join Taliban then they are shit out of luck in those two countries. The war was being run like those in the past. It's recently that people want to extend these rights to POW's before the war is over.

If we have to engage Iran or some other country in the future we would have to face the same dilemma. Should we release POW's when the war isn't over yet? We don't have to hold them until the war on terror is over, just until the war is done with the particular countries in question. If the U.S. can't win it, it will be a huge disaster. At that point they would probably release people anyways and cut and run.
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Old 09-30-2008, 01:29 PM   #730
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Now I'm starting to get mad.

Have you even read the Conservatives fucking platform!

They want to do the same thing as the NDP on enviroment. You have no idea what you're saying anymore. You don't have to argue a point you don't know alot about. If something came up that I don't understand, or is a bit over my head, I'd step back let others debate and learn from it. Or go research it.

You follow the Conservatives blindly. Though your good traget practice for some of the liberals on this site. You make all sane thinking conservatives look like back water idiots. Do your friends a favour and stop now.
I'm not afraid of you. The Conservatives are doing cap 'n trade because of the pressure from the U.N. and the U.S. which believe in man made global warming. Their cap 'n trade requires other countries to follow suit and won't happen until all countries get involved. The overall tax burden under Green Shift will simply push money from the west to the east, (as usual). The liberals wanted to do it whether China and India were involved or not. Harper stomped on that. Dion also wanted carbon taxes on top of that. I have to pick the lesser of two evils.

As you can tell I don't believe we have the evidence yet over global warming being mostly man made. The climatologists aren't unianimous and geologists are also critcize the assumption that CO2 is all we need to study. What about water vapour in the atmosphere? Shouldn't we understand how that affects weather before we go in this direction?

The question I would ask all politicians is "are all the green collar jobs going to be replaced by jobs lost from in the energy sector?"
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Old 09-30-2008, 01:30 PM   #731
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Go and search cap and trade and start researching its horrible effects all over the world.
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Old 09-30-2008, 01:31 PM   #732
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Its been a very rough 5 days in the polls for John McCain. Today he is down by 49% to 43% in the new Gallup poll, but was behind 50% to 42% in the two previous Gallup polls. He went into the debate on Friday night down by 5 points. With Monday's failure of the bailout package, it was assumed that Obama's lead over McCain would grow from 8 points to 10 or more, but it is back down to 6. Today's gallup poll also represents the first time that all of the days of the 3 day tracking poll have come after the debate. Unfortunately, given that McCain was behind by 5 points going into the debate, the fact that he is behind now by 6 points shows that most of the public thought Obama won the debate.

The intrade numbers for Obama VS. McCain have never been this bad for McCain with Obama's figures nearly double that for McCain. Just two weeks ago, McCain was ahead.

The situation in the states based on intrade numbers does not look good, despite the fact that McCain is tied or in the lead in some polls of the major battleground states. North Carolina and Virginia are starting to look like they are in serious trouble.

With the only scheduled potential game changers being the debates, its going to be difficult for McCain to turn things around, but there have been some wild swings in the polls in just the past 4 weeks, so its still possible, but time and opportunities are starting to run short.

At the very least, hopefully McCain can avoid and Obama electoral Tsunami.
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Old 09-30-2008, 01:33 PM   #733
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We do have law and a military tribunal but the civil lawyers think it's too secret and want it to be more public. The difference is that the military wait until they can find the proper time to release them as POW's when the war is done. If the war in Afghanistan, and Iraq is complete then they can be released there. If they want then to join Taliban then they are shit out of luck in those two countries. The war was being run like those in the past. It's recently that people want to extend these rights to POW's before the war is over.
And what if they are not from Afghanistan or Iraq? Do they have to wait till the war on terror is over or do they have to wait until a future war with their country is over? See, this is why you are hard to take seriously, you don't seem to really know what you're talking about a lot of the time. None of what you said holds any water. Civil lawyers aren't worried about it being too secretive, we aren't just waiting to let them go, where do you come up with this stuff?
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Old 09-30-2008, 01:36 PM   #734
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I also like Stephen Harper's approch to try and focus on visible pollutants that cause acid rain and actually clean up the air, especially when we have the technology for it. How to eliminate C02 from the energy sector without crippling the economy will have to take some major changes in technology in the upcoming 20 years. Harper can't completely ignore the global warming issue because the population believes it is man made and will punish him in the election if he doesn't acquiece. I'm not going to start a splinter faction party that has no chance of winning.
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Old 09-30-2008, 01:38 PM   #735
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Its been a very rough 5 days in the polls for John McCain. Today he is down by 49% to 43% in the new Gallup poll, but was behind 50% to 42% in the two previous Gallup polls. He went into the debate on Friday night down by 5 points. With Monday's failure of the bailout package, it was assumed that Obama's lead over McCain would grow from 8 points to 10 or more, but it is back down to 6. Today's gallup poll also represents the first time that all of the days of the 3 day tracking poll have come after the debate. Unfortunately, given that McCain was behind by 5 points going into the debate, the fact that he is behind now by 6 points shows that most of the public thought Obama won the debate.

The intrade numbers for Obama VS. McCain have never been this bad for McCain with Obama's figures nearly double that for McCain. Just two weeks ago, McCain was ahead.

The situation in the states based on intrade numbers does not look good, despite the fact that McCain is tied or in the lead in some polls of the major battleground states. North Carolina and Virginia are starting to look like they are in serious trouble.

With the only scheduled potential game changers being the debates, its going to be difficult for McCain to turn things around, but there have been some wild swings in the polls in just the past 4 weeks, so its still possible, but time and opportunities are starting to run short.

At the very least, hopefully McCain can avoid and Obama electoral Tsunami.
The democratic party has succeeded in making Bush completely responsible for the financial meltdown and equating McCain to Bush. If the public continues to believe this then McCain will probably lose.
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