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Old 10-21-2013, 08:37 AM   #841
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So the answer is no then. Gotcha.
Whatever works best for you.

You already had your answer before you asked the question.
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Old 10-21-2013, 10:36 AM   #842
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So the answer is no then. Gotcha.
Since we’re citing the “special code words” divined by the tin foil hat crowd at MSNBC, the answer must be “no”.

The left’s explanation for our economic woes fall into the same tired categories: it’s the GOP’s fault (those terrorists) and the racist Tea Party folks are extremists. Bush can be held responsible for any economic downturn, but Obama is merely a victim.

And I thought we were talking about big government vs limited government. Instead, the dialogue is redirected since
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Having one’s opponent rebut charges of racism is far better than discussing joblessness.
If the Democrats rely on the youth vote, they aren’t doing a good job meeting their needs.

Youth Unemployment: 15 Percent Of American Youth Out Of School And Work, Study Finds
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Old 10-21-2013, 11:21 AM   #843
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Wait, why is it the Democrats' fault that I can't find work?
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Old 10-21-2013, 11:30 AM   #844
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Whatever works best for you.

You already had your answer before you asked the question.
Sadly, I suppose I did. I'm not sure why I wouldn't -- after all, you're the one who attempted an incredible feat of intellectual acrobaticism by arguing that the Tea Party's resentment of taxation has to be racist, because what else could it possibly be? After all, it's not like Americans have had a scornful perspective on taxation going back to -- oh, I don't know -- the Revolutionary War? And how practically every President since has had a platform that includes lowering taxes?

You're smarter than arguing that the Tea Party's raison d'être is racist. It is however a convenient way of explaining away the ideological purposes for which your neighbors and fellow citizens have any right to be angry, without having to engage in any significant way. But whatever works best for you

I do agree with you about the disgusting people who are almost professional race-baiters out there, who exploit race for their own ends and use it as a wedge issue.

Al Sharpton in particular is a real problem.
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Old 10-21-2013, 11:52 AM   #845
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But what is it that Tea Party people think wasteful spending is? Isn't it welfare?

Also:
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I do agree with you about the disgusting people who are almost professional race-baiters out there, who exploit race for their own ends and use it as a wedge issue.

Al Sharpton in particular is a real problem.
Yes, there are no race-baiters on the right, just Al fucking Sharpton.
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Old 10-21-2013, 12:09 PM   #846
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And I thought we were talking about big government vs limited government. Instead, the dialogue is redirected since
One only needs to listen to know this isn't true. It's about which big government? One claims to be limited government and fiscally responsible, but they don't count military as big government, or infringing on civil rights, or reproductive rights as big government. Whoops And their fiscal policies don't make any real solutions to the issues at hand.

The other big government has it's issues as well. The monitoring and implementation to its solutions have been mishandled and allowed for out of control abuse of the systems.
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Old 10-21-2013, 12:17 PM   #847
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You're smarter than arguing that the Tea Party's raison d'être is racist.
Where did Irvine state that?
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Old 10-21-2013, 01:03 PM   #848
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Where did Irvine state that?
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Originally Posted by Irvine511
the leaders of the Tea Party absolutely feel as if race motivates their constituents.
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Originally Posted by Irvine511
The anti-tax impulse has historically had racism as one of its motivators.
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Originally Posted by Irvine511
We have a black president now.
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Originally Posted by Irvine511
It's not that shocking. We have a black president.
.
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Old 10-21-2013, 01:06 PM   #849
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Where did Irvine state that?

All Nathan and NBC can do is pretend -- as I predicted earlier -- that I'm saying that race is the ONLY motivator, or go in full on denial that this is some "tin foil hat" conspiracy. There's an entire industry of political strategists who would beg to differ.

One only needed to have paid a modicum of attention to Tea Oarty rallies, and even the Oalin events in late 2008, to see exactly what I'm talking about.

Creating a caricature or denying everything is easier than having to actually present arguments.

Or admit that, yes, shockingly, race does play a part in American politics.

It's not like we fought a Civil War or anything over race.
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Old 10-21-2013, 01:08 PM   #850
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All Nathan and NBC can do is pretend -- as I predicted earlier -- that I'm saying that race is the ONLY motivator, or that this is some "tin foil hat" conspiracy.
You've said what you've said. That's just in the last three pages of one thread.

Quote:
Creating a caricature or denying everything is easier than having to actually present arguments.
Oh I agree.

"BECAUSE RACISM" is not an argument, any more than "BECAUSE SOCIALISM" is.

Edited to add:

I don't deny that race is a factor. As you have rightly pointed out in other posts, race is never something you can ignore. However, race-baiting happens on both sides, and it's disgusting when it happens, in part because it's far easier to demonize something that is less apparent than it is to honestly engage with the facts at hand. We've had some good substantive debate and discussion in this thread about how to go about reducing debt as a percentage of GDP, as well as some actual hard numbers on the effectiveness (or to some, lack thereof) of the ACA thus far, as well as the tax ramifications on states, the rising costs of healthcare, etc.

All of those are far more intellectually honest and substantive than "the Tea Party hates our black president."

And it's sure as hell just easier to post stupid pictures of stupid people with stupid signs at rallies.
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Old 10-21-2013, 01:10 PM   #851
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.
Nathan, none of those show what you say they show.

In fact, there is the explicit statement that racism is "one of" the motivators.

Strawman.
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Old 10-21-2013, 01:11 PM   #852
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Right. I never present arguments.

But, yes, BECAUSE RACISM is why we had the Birther crowd, why we had the Palin rallies pining for "real Americans," and why many counties in Appalachia and the Deep South are redder in 2012 than they were in 2004.

I could also say BECAUSE HISTORY.

But then some of us would have to admit we're in bed with some nasty people.
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Old 10-21-2013, 01:15 PM   #853
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Since we’re citing the “special code words” divined by the tin foil hat crowd at MSNBC, the answer must be “no”.
Put down the Koran.
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Old 10-21-2013, 01:24 PM   #854
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From Tea Party rallies:















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