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Old 04-25-2010, 06:12 PM   #796
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Cori, we're not "interesting."

Although I think we're too accurate for some.
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Originally Posted by corianderstem View Post
Eh, I can live with it not turning into another predictable internet slap fight with the same five players.

I thought it was interesting, and that's all that mattered to me.

I didn't repost it on my Facebook because I didn't want to end up seriously considering "defriending" my mom again over it, when she posted her expected response.

ask a question

get an answer

excitable times, like these days











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Old 04-25-2010, 06:15 PM   #797
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I don't expect you to agree with or understand any such socialist thinking. Clearly there is a segment of Americans that operates completely outside of the sphere of the rest of the Western democratic world in this respect.
I support state-subsidized college education, so your generalizations can be taken elsewhere
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Old 04-25-2010, 06:25 PM   #798
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A few things I've seen in this discussion:

We need to fund state schools better, this will reduce tuition: Agree 100%. One of the best "bangs for your buck." I think state schools can make up for some of the gap between them and the elite schools in perceived level of quality, value, etc, by forming strategic partnerships with private employers. This is relatively easy when you have the backing of the state government, which employers want to keep happy.

Demand is up, so tuition is way up: Very true. I think, obviously, government policies that facilitate the borrowing of money for college have a role in increasing the demand for it. However, these are not new, they have been in place for quite some time. In fact, the money was a lot "easier" even 10 years ago before direct government and government subsidized(sallie mae,etc) loans were allowed to be given out at 8, 10, 12% interest rates(when market rates were at record lows, but I will get mad if I go further ). This was the time period I was in school, unfortunately, and the rates were WAY, WAY out of line with historical averages during this time. I was in school from 2005-09, most loans running 7-12%, whereas my mother's God daughter went to school from 1997-2001 and paid a maximum of 4% on any government related loan.

Not to mention, even since the credit crisis hit in 2007 with the resulting tightening in the private sector, tuition has not let up one little bit, it in fact has still increased by double digit percentages!

So what is it? Why, in the last 10 yrs do we all of a sudden see 30, 35, 40, $45,000 tuition bills? I think the answer is a lot more simple than most let on here. Colleges are of course businesses subject to the same economic pressures as the rest of the economy. So lets look at:

Stock market: Has not been great or even consistently decent since 2000. We all know what its been like since 2007! Obviously, colleges and universities have endowments that they have invested in stocks, bonds, etc. If the endowment is strong, they are less dependent on tuition.

Health Care and Energy Costs: Colleges pay these like everyone else, probably more so because they are generally very generous with benefits and they have many buildings used as residences, so there is a lot of energy consumption. Health care rising fast, energy rising fast, they pay, they pass the cost on.

Changing nature of the economy in general: 30 years ago, it was much easier to have a job and a middle class lifestyle without a college degree. As we all know, those days are history. So out of necessity, more people are seeking college educations. This could be more of a factor than the "easy money" argument, as college loans have thus far avoided the "hand them out of a cracker jack box" no documentation, interest only, "we don't care if you pay them back cause we're selling them to Wall Street" mentality that plagued the mortgage industry.

I don't know the answer. I think the student loan reforms this year were a step in the right direction, if we are taking the plunge as taxpayers, we may as well be doing it in house in a way that incentivizes keeping the deficit down as opposed to making a few private corporations with lobbyists whole on any losses(socialism much??!!!!!).

I think the most simple, most obvious answer is the best one: College is expensive, so people need good incomes to pay for it. So lets get to work creating the good, high paying jobs of the 21st century so that we can afford to send our kids to college! That is a starting point that we can all agree on, though we will of course differ on how to get there!
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Old 04-25-2010, 06:37 PM   #799
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Cal State Fullerton at $4700 a year
I estimated $4000 after the fees listed on their website- books, labs, and parking probably make it closer to $4700 as you've posted here. That's still an awesome deal and someone could certainly start a great career with B.A. or B.S. from this school. Also, should they excel - they would also become eligible for grants and scholarships.

I'm not saying it would be easy for someone to wait tables and pay for school on their own, but it's certainly possible. I waited tables and took advantage of the GI Bill. Someone may take another path (I had a friend that sold cars and waited tables to pay for tuition). If you want a degree from a decent school without debt, it's possible. As with most things in life, it will take hard work, times of frustration, and creativity. Do I wish my parents could have afforded to send me to USC and pay for room and board so I could have really had the full college experience? Maybe. But I somehow managed to graduate from a decent school and start a career.

Also, many medium to large sized companies will pay for a good portion of grad school.
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Old 04-25-2010, 06:40 PM   #800
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Originally Posted by U2387 View Post
A few things I've seen in this discussion:

We need to fund state schools better, this will reduce tuition: Agree 100%. One of the best "bangs for your buck." I think state schools can make up for some of the gap between them and the elite schools in perceived level of quality, value, etc, by forming strategic partnerships with private employers. This is relatively easy when you have the backing of the state government, which employers want to keep happy.

Demand is up, so tuition is way up: Very true. I think, obviously, government policies that facilitate the borrowing of money for college have a role in increasing the demand for it. However, these are not new, they have been in place for quite some time. In fact, the money was a lot "easier" even 10 years ago before direct government and government subsidized(sallie mae,etc) loans were allowed to be given out at 8, 10, 12% interest rates(when market rates were at record lows, but I will get mad if I go further ). This was the time period I was in school, unfortunately, and the rates were WAY, WAY out of line with historical averages during this time. I was in school from 2005-09, most loans running 7-12%, whereas my mother's God daughter went to school from 1997-2001 and paid a maximum of 4% on any government related loan.

Not to mention, even since the credit crisis hit in 2007 with the resulting tightening in the private sector, tuition has not let up one little bit, it in fact has still increased by double digit percentages!

So what is it? Why, in the last 10 yrs do we all of a sudden see 30, 35, 40, $45,000 tuition bills? I think the answer is a lot more simple than most let on here. Colleges are of course businesses subject to the same economic pressures as the rest of the economy. So lets look at:

Stock market: Has not been great or even consistently decent since 2000. We all know what its been like since 2007! Obviously, colleges and universities have endowments that they have invested in stocks, bonds, etc. If the endowment is strong, they are less dependent on tuition.

Health Care and Energy Costs: Colleges pay these like everyone else, probably more so because they are generally very generous with benefits and they have many buildings used as residences, so there is a lot of energy consumption. Health care rising fast, energy rising fast, they pay, they pass the cost on.

Changing nature of the economy in general: 30 years ago, it was much easier to have a job and a middle class lifestyle without a college degree. As we all know, those days are history. So out of necessity, more people are seeking college educations. This could be more of a factor than the "easy money" argument, as college loans have thus far avoided the "hand them out of a cracker jack box" no documentation, interest only, "we don't care if you pay them back cause we're selling them to Wall Street" mentality that plagued the mortgage industry.

I don't know the answer. I think the student loan reforms this year were a step in the right direction, if we are taking the plunge as taxpayers, we may as well be doing it in house in a way that incentivizes keeping the deficit down as opposed to making a few private corporations with lobbyists whole on any losses(socialism much??!!!!!).

I think the most simple, most obvious answer is the best one: College is expensive, so people need good incomes to pay for it. So lets get to work creating the good, high paying jobs of the 21st century so that we can afford to send our kids to college! That is a starting point that we can all agree on, though we will of course differ on how to get there!
Good summary and post!
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Old 04-25-2010, 06:50 PM   #801
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I worked two jobs while I was going to a state college, too.


also, in the Southern CA mix is Cal State Long Beach, similar costs as Fullerton. and U C Irvine similar costs to UCLA.
There are options, it is more of a choice.

A person needs to evaluate ,if it is worth going into (more) debt for the more expensive schools.
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Old 04-25-2010, 06:52 PM   #802
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Originally Posted by U2387 View Post
A few things I've seen in this discussion:

We need to fund state schools better, this will reduce tuition: Agree 100%. One of the best "bangs for your buck." I think state schools can make up for some of the gap between them and the elite schools in perceived level of quality, value, etc, by forming strategic partnerships with private employers. This is relatively easy when you have the backing of the state government, which employers want to keep happy.

Demand is up, so tuition is way up: Very true. I think, obviously, government policies that facilitate the borrowing of money for college have a role in increasing the demand for it. However, these are not new, they have been in place for quite some time. In fact, the money was a lot "easier" even 10 years ago before direct government and government subsidized(sallie mae,etc) loans were allowed to be given out at 8, 10, 12% interest rates(when market rates were at record lows, but I will get mad if I go further ). This was the time period I was in school, unfortunately, and the rates were WAY, WAY out of line with historical averages during this time. I was in school from 2005-09, most loans running 7-12%, whereas my mother's God daughter went to school from 1997-2001 and paid a maximum of 4% on any government related loan.

Not to mention, even since the credit crisis hit in 2007 with the resulting tightening in the private sector, tuition has not let up one little bit, it in fact has still increased by double digit percentages!

So what is it? Why, in the last 10 yrs do we all of a sudden see 30, 35, 40, $45,000 tuition bills? I think the answer is a lot more simple than most let on here. Colleges are of course businesses subject to the same economic pressures as the rest of the economy. So lets look at:

Stock market: Has not been great or even consistently decent since 2000. We all know what its been like since 2007! Obviously, colleges and universities have endowments that they have invested in stocks, bonds, etc. If the endowment is strong, they are less dependent on tuition.

Health Care and Energy Costs: Colleges pay these like everyone else, probably more so because they are generally very generous with benefits and they have many buildings used as residences, so there is a lot of energy consumption. Health care rising fast, energy rising fast, they pay, they pass the cost on.

Changing nature of the economy in general: 30 years ago, it was much easier to have a job and a middle class lifestyle without a college degree. As we all know, those days are history. So out of necessity, more people are seeking college educations. This could be more of a factor than the "easy money" argument, as college loans have thus far avoided the "hand them out of a cracker jack box" no documentation, interest only, "we don't care if you pay them back cause we're selling them to Wall Street" mentality that plagued the mortgage industry.

I don't know the answer. I think the student loan reforms this year were a step in the right direction, if we are taking the plunge as taxpayers, we may as well be doing it in house in a way that incentivizes keeping the deficit down as opposed to making a few private corporations with lobbyists whole on any losses(socialism much??!!!!!).

I think the most simple, most obvious answer is the best one: College is expensive, so people need good incomes to pay for it. So lets get to work creating the good, high paying jobs of the 21st century so that we can afford to send our kids to college! That is a starting point that we can all agree on, though we will of course differ on how to get there!
Good post
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Old 04-25-2010, 07:40 PM   #803
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ask a question

get an answer

You're the only one with guts enough to answer.

The rest aren't "interested."
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Old 04-25-2010, 07:51 PM   #804
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Good summary and post!
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Good post
maybe we can put a FaceBook like button at the bottom of posts.
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Old 04-25-2010, 08:17 PM   #805
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So lets get to work creating the good, high paying jobs of the 21st century so that we can afford to send our kids to college! That is a starting point that we can all agree on,
= *Likes this*
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Old 04-25-2010, 09:39 PM   #806
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Good summary and post!
Thank you very much!

And also to Deep, Alienvy and Bluer White!
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Old 04-26-2010, 10:47 AM   #807
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You're the only one with guts enough to answer.

The rest aren't "interested."
However, I am certainly interested in your response to Deeps' post.
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Old 04-26-2010, 02:09 PM   #808
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I saw a post on another forum from an American who said he was $140k in debt from student loans. My mortgage is only around 20k more than that.
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Old 04-26-2010, 02:34 PM   #809
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Yeah, I have to say that at times like these, I'm happy to only have gotten a Bachelor's degree.
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Old 04-26-2010, 04:01 PM   #810
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would you agree that, on the whole, the president's policies have been successful?
As I said before, the jury is still out:

Quote:
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- The recovery is picking up steam as employers boost payrolls, but economists think the government's stimulus package and jobs bill had little to do with the rebound, according to a survey released Monday.

In latest quarterly survey by the National Association for Business Economics, the index that measures employment showed job growth for the first time in two years -- but a majority of respondents felt the fiscal stimulus had no impact.

NABE conducted the study by polling 68 of its members who work in economic roles at private-sector firms. About 73% of those surveyed said employment at their company is neither higher nor lower as a result of the $787 billion Recovery Act, which the White House's Council of Economic Advisers says is on track to create or save 3.5 million jobs by the end of the year.

That sentiment is shared for the recently passed $17.7 billion jobs bill that calls for tax breaks for businesses that hire and additional infrastructure spending. More than two-thirds of those polled believe the measure won't affect payrolls, while 30% expect it to boost hiring "moderately."

But the economists see conditions improving. More than half of respondents -- 57% -- say industrial demand is rising, while just 6% see it declining. A growing number also said their firms are increasing spending and profit margins are widening.

Nearly a quarter of those surveyed forecast that gross domestic product, the broadest measure of economic activity, will grow more than 3% in 2010, and 70% of NABE's respondents expect it to grow more than 2%.

Still, the survey suggested that tight lending conditions remain a concern. Almost half of those polled said the credit crunch hurts their business
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