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Old 04-21-2010, 06:18 PM   #661
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I hold the view that only a free market approach to health care is the best possible solution. Please do not confuse today’s state-sponsored insurance cartel with the free market – for I assure you, it is far from that.

I agree with you that we haven't had a free market healthcare in decades, that's why I have to laugh at those that keep repeating that slogan.

A truly free market in healthcare would even be more of a colossal failure. We'd have all the Viagra we want but diabetics would be dying left and right.
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Old 04-21-2010, 06:26 PM   #662
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YouTube - US Senator Graham asked to Admit His Homosexuality at Tea Party Event
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Old 04-21-2010, 06:58 PM   #663
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"Speak American" , and I thought the Tea Party was about spending?

Guess how much that wall is going to cost? A LOT more than you think once you start adding the rises in produce and labor...

Wow, no hatred at all right? What a loving fucking crowd of morons...

You should all be proud.
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Old 04-21-2010, 07:08 PM   #664
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Good Lord. This guy apparently doesn't listen to himself.

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The most disturbing aspect about this is that people like Janet Napolitano right now are trying to demonize tens of millions of Americans because of their political views.
Pot, kettle, black, yadda yadda.
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Old 04-21-2010, 07:24 PM   #665
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Guess how much that wall is going to cost? A LOT more than you think once you start adding the rises in produce and labor...
Just so I’m clear - Are you suggesting it is acceptable to pay people below minimum wage if the cost of labor is too expensive to provide the good or service?
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Old 04-21-2010, 08:10 PM   #666
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Just so I’m clear - Are you suggesting it is acceptable to pay people below minimum wage if the cost of labor is too expensive to provide the good or service?
I'm saying it happens and it's a big part of our economy and those that go off on these rants better understand that... Those that bitch and moan that "they don't pay taxes" better understand that... I think if these fiscal conservatives truly looked at the issue with a fine tooth comb they would stay quiet... I think this is a hot button issue and race plays a much bigger part than any of them are willing to admit.
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Old 04-21-2010, 08:37 PM   #667
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I'm saying it happens and it's a big part of our economy and those that go off on these rants better understand that...
Do you think people would be willing to pay more for lettuce if it meant no more (or drastically reduced) illegal immigration? Or, do you think it’s necessary to keep illegal immigrants here in order to pay lower than minimum wage and keep the cost of lettuce cheap?

Personally, I would let the free market decide. The argument for what essentially amounts to slavery isn’t morally justifiable – just as you’ve pointed out that it wasn’t morally justifiable in the Confederacy.
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Old 04-21-2010, 08:42 PM   #668
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Do you think people would be willing to pay more for lettuce if it meant no more (or drastically reduced) illegal immigration?
No, I don't think people are willing to pay more. I'm pretty sure they would just blame Obama.


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Or, do you think it’s necessary to keep illegal immigrants here in order to pay lower than minimum wage and keep the cost of lettuce cheap?
I don't think this either.


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Personally, I would let the free market decide. The argument for what essentially amounts to slavery isn’t morally justifiable – just as you’ve pointed out that it wasn’t morally justifiable in the Confederacy.
I'm not justifying anything. I point it out because I don't think all these tea partiers have a clue how much it's going to cost them. I point it out because the irony shines a light upon their hypocricy.
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Old 04-21-2010, 09:43 PM   #669
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A truly free market in healthcare would even be more of a colossal failure. We'd have all the Viagra we want but diabetics would be dying left and right.
Diabetic care accounts for about all 10% of all health care spending. What in the name of greedy capitalism makes you think insulin, drug and diabetic device manufactures, health care providers and insurance companies looking to prevent having to pay for treating the many expensive complications of untreated or undiagnosed diabetes (stroke, heart failure, kidney failure, blindness, loss of lower limbs) ... would just up and abandon these patients to sell more boner pills?
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Old 04-21-2010, 09:59 PM   #670
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Well, there were stories in the news of insurance companies refusing to insure babies because they were overweight, and after the health care bill passed, there were reports of insurance companies still looking for loopholes to not have to insure children, so if they can do that...

All I know is this: Medicare/Medicaid saved my family's butt financially. My dad had to go on it after he got really sick, and it's a good thing he did, 'cause had he not done that, my family'd be in debt up to our eyeballs right now. They paid most, if not all, the cost for practically EVERY pill, hospital treatment, etc. And he'd had a good private insurance policy before then. But he couldn't stay on it 'cause he still couldn't afford to. There's still a few minor things that we had to take care of ourselves, but they weren't very expensive things and we could afford to squeak by and get those, too.

Ironically, many people who are bitching and moaning about "Obamacare" being an intrusion (a bill, which, again, incorporated a lot of REPUBLICAN ideas, so if you're going to yell at anybody...) are generally pretty happy with Medicare/Medicaid. Remember the humor people found in the phrase "Get your government hands off my Medicare!" Ummmmmm... And until private insurance companies are more affordable and willing to cover everybody, sorry, we need an alternative. I don't have health insurance at all-I'm still looking for a job back in the town I live in currently. My mom and sister work part-time at retail stores, and they do offer some health coverage, but nothing really spectacular that could help us out. And my mom, sister, and I have been having some financial ups and downs as of late, sometimes particularly serious ones (like, for instance, there were times in recent months where my mom and I were just trying to cover the rent and food for our apartment, let alone anything else. Thankfully, we're getting help, some of it from those evil government organizations, no less!). So an option that would allow us to go for simple checkups, or go to a dentist, or treat an injury or sickness should we, god forbid, get one, would be a serious blessing.

Are there things in Medicare/Medicaid that could be fixed? Yeah. Every system has its kinks that have to be worked out. But to get rid of it altogether? No, don't agree with that. If we can manage to have both public and private options for other things going (i.e., schools, mail systems, etc.), then we can easily manage to have both a public and private health system coexist. Besides that, nobody has ever come up with an answer to why they're not bothered about the fact that they're REQUIRED to have car insurance, but when it comes to health insurance, boy, that gets their hair up.

Angela
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Old 04-21-2010, 10:34 PM   #671
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And until private insurance companies are more affordable and willing to cover everybody, sorry, we need an alternative. [

Because the game is currently rigged by a state sponsored health insurance industry. Free markets would open competition (which is currently closed to selected companies) and this would drive down cost while increasing service. The current system, and the to-be-installed system, are the “the worst of both worlds” – taking all of the money while creating the demand.
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Old 04-21-2010, 10:58 PM   #672
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Diabetic care accounts for about all 10% of all health care spending. What in the name of greedy capitalism makes you think insulin, drug and diabetic device manufactures, health care providers and insurance companies looking to prevent having to pay for treating the many expensive complications of untreated or undiagnosed diabetes (stroke, heart failure, kidney failure, blindness, loss of lower limbs) ... would just up and abandon these patients to sell more boner pills?
10%? I haven't seen that number, but I have seen is that it's about 50% less than it should be.

Do you know the reimbursment rate on diabetic treatment?

Do you know where most of the diabetes research came from?

Do you know what demographic suffers from diabetes the most?

Answer those questions and you'll get my point.
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Old 04-21-2010, 11:00 PM   #673
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wow.

that Graham is gay is an open secret in DC, that's true, but this guy is a lunatic.
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Old 04-21-2010, 11:03 PM   #674
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Just one stupid employee could cost Geico 15% or more in car insurance business. The voice-over guy called Tea Partiers mentally retarded and potential killers, and was subsequently fired.

� Geico Cancels a Hater - Big Government


has Obama condemned this yet?!?!?!?
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Old 04-21-2010, 11:04 PM   #675
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Free markets would open competition (which is currently closed to selected companies) and this would drive down cost while increasing service. The current system, and the to-be-installed system, are the “the worst of both worlds” – taking all of the money while creating the demand.
What makes you think this will increase service? The poverty striken are the sickest, why would a true free market cater to them?

What would cause the free market to do research in diabetes when viagra is much more profitable?

Please show me something to back up this claim, because I have yet to find one person that knows anything about the medical field that wholeheartedly agrees with this. Even the most diehard conservative doctors know this isn't the answer.
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