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View Poll Results: What causes HATE/ANGER for our fellowmen?men?men?
ENVY/JEALOSY 11 45.83%
POVERTY 13 54.17%
Voters: 24. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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Old 10-14-2002, 08:03 PM   #31
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The root cause of HATE/ANGER towards our fellowman..Plez

Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


I agree completely that all three are monotheistic.
and the next part to your thought is........?
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Old 10-14-2002, 08:35 PM   #32
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The root cause of HATE/ANGER towards our fellowman..

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Originally posted by Dreadsox


and the next part to your thought is........?
That while all three are monotheistic, due to conflicting core doctrines (stated earlier), all three do not share the same God.
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Old 10-14-2002, 08:45 PM   #33
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There are a number of Jews and Muslims (even Christians) who view Roman Catholicism as a polytheistic faith.
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Old 10-14-2002, 10:45 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
There are a number of Jews and Muslims (even Christians) who view Roman Catholicism as a polytheistic faith.
I am glad someone else said it! I thought it...hehe

However, through the belief in the Trinity, it is not Polytheistic. This applies not to just Roman Catholicism, but to most Christian Denominations. The Trinity is not debateable, either you believe in it, or most denominations do not view you to be a Christian.
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Old 10-15-2002, 05:36 PM   #35
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How about a feeling of suppression, finding lack of respect for your own culture, a feeling of lack of independence. This is absolutely not the same as poverty or envy/jealousy.
The not being able to have a proper vote or power because you are poor. The rich in the world either directly or indirectly have a lot of power in telling people how to live, which is rather logical conclusion of capitalism. Now this can and often does cause hatred, because to have a proper vote, you have to be rich, to become rich, you most often have to join the ways of those that are already rich, which means taking over parts of their culture. This is a very general statement and is applicable to various times and places throughout history. Now you may call this envy. Perhaps it is a kind of envy, but I think far more important is the overwhelming influence that the rich have on the poor and their culture rather than the fact that they envy the richness of the rich.
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Old 10-16-2002, 11:31 AM   #36
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Niether-- I don't think that either one of those choices would be the root cause of hate, but I do think beliefs play a major role in this.
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Old 10-16-2002, 01:02 PM   #37
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Well, religion is a part of a culture, it also is a great tool in causing hatred, rather more than a real cause to hatred in my opinion.
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Old 10-16-2002, 11:28 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vorsprung
How about a feeling of suppression, finding lack of respect for your own culture, a feeling of lack of independence. This is absolutely not the same as poverty or envy/jealousy.
The not being able to have a proper vote or power because you are poor. The rich in the world either directly or indirectly have a lot of power in telling people how to live, which is rather logical conclusion of capitalism. Now this can and often does cause hatred, because to have a proper vote, you have to be rich, to become rich, you most often have to join the ways of those that are already rich, which means taking over parts of their culture. This is a very general statement and is applicable to various times and places throughout history. Now you may call this envy. Perhaps it is a kind of envy, but I think far more important is the overwhelming influence that the rich have on the poor and their culture rather than the fact that they envy the richness of the rich.

Vorsprung-

Very good post

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Old 10-17-2002, 03:46 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vorsprung
How about a feeling of suppression, finding lack of respect for your own culture, a feeling of lack of independence. This is absolutely not the same as poverty or envy/jealousy.
The not being able to have a proper vote or power because you are poor. The rich in the world either directly or indirectly have a lot of power in telling people how to live, which is rather logical conclusion of capitalism. Now this can and often does cause hatred, because to have a proper vote, you have to be rich, to become rich, you most often have to join the ways of those that are already rich, which means taking over parts of their culture. This is a very general statement and is applicable to various times and places throughout history. Now you may call this envy. Perhaps it is a kind of envy, but I think far more important is the overwhelming influence that the rich have on the poor and their culture rather than the fact that they envy the richness of the rich.
I don't see why this is such a good post. It seems like he has locked himself into a marxist-socialist mindset of the rich oppressing the worker class, but I don't see any evidence that it's a foregone conclusion that the rich necessarily have to oppress the poor. So, if start a business and hire people to work for me for a lower salary than my own, is that considered oppression? Also, I don't see how the "logical" conclusion of capitalism is that the rich will have ultimate control of the poor. It may seem logical for someone raised among socialists and communists, but dumb Americans (like myself) might need a little help with the actual arguement you're trying to make (if there is one).

"to become rich, you most often have to join the ways of those that are already rich, which means taking over parts of their culture. "

He also doesn't discuss why the rich oppressing the poor is a more important influence than the poor envying the rich. Simply stating it as your opinion doesn't constitute an arguement. I'd appreciate a more developed arguement.

Why does it not surprise me that this arguement is coming from the Netherlands? I'd fall out of my seat if I saw a right-wing arguement from the Netherlands. Sooooo....how's your collapsed government doing? Are you with the Christian Dems, the VVD or the LPF?
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Old 10-20-2002, 12:10 PM   #40
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Funny, calling the Netherlands a land of communists and socialists. Since our country has always been a country of trade since it hardly has any natural resources. Thatís what weíre known for. Also the worldís 2nd or 3rd largest company (Royal Dutch/Shell) is a mostly Dutch corporation. This all wouldnít really happen if we were living in a tiny communist country. True, The Netherlands just as the rest of Europe is more left wing than the USA. The policy of your democrats would be considered right-wing over here. Even I donít consider myself really left-wing over here, for American Iím left-wing yes, for Dutch not. So Iím sensing some kind of communistóphobia or maybe even xenophobia in your reply. Also, it seems like you feel that Iíve started a personal attack on America. Well I havenít. Iíve just stated some things which do apply to the USA, since it is the superpower of today, but not solely to them but also to (relative) superpowers of the past and also to Europe. I also did not state that this (general) superpower is doing something wrong. I havenít said whoís right and whoís wrong, so my post was never meant to bash the USA or anything like that, dontí be so paranoid and feel offended so soon. I have other reasons for not liking American policy, something this post wasnít about, it actually wasnít about a policy at all.
About the fall our government: well I havenít voted for either of those parties, but I think tís a good thing theyív fallen apart, since the LPF is a very unstabile party with their members being egocentric and much to eager for (personal) power.

But back to the original topic. To call envy the reason is very easy, because this simply implies they're the bad guys and we can't help it that they hate us. In fact then they are the cause for the hatred themselves, because they are stupid envious people. Stating that the huge influence of the (culture of the) rich on the (culture of the) poor is a main cause for hatred may to some imply that the rich are wrong or bad or deliberately opresssing the poor. They aren't, but it just happens to be this way (sometimes they are and then the rich and powerful are acting in a wrong way, but this doesn't necesarely have to be this way)
Why not just envy? Well, that is personal in a way yes, but I wouldn't hate anyone just because they are more powerful or rich. So be it, I don't need to be wealthy, though I want to be independent. But if they are more powerful and rich, well I don't think anyone would have a problem with that as long as this power doen't influence your way of life.
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Old 10-20-2002, 04:41 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vorsprung
Funny, calling the Netherlands a land of communists and socialists. Since our country has always been a country of trade since it hardly has any natural resources. Thatís what weíre known for. Also the worldís 2nd or 3rd largest company (Royal Dutch/Shell) is a mostly Dutch corporation. This all wouldnít really happen if we were living in a tiny communist country. True, The Netherlands just as the rest of Europe is more left wing than the USA. The policy of your democrats would be considered right-wing over here. Even I donít consider myself really left-wing over here, for American Iím left-wing yes, for Dutch not. So Iím sensing some kind of communistóphobia or maybe even xenophobia in your reply. Also, it seems like you feel that Iíve started a personal attack on America. Well I havenít. Iíve just stated some things which do apply to the USA, since it is the superpower of today, but not solely to them but also to (relative) superpowers of the past and also to Europe. I also did not state that this (general) superpower is doing something wrong. I havenít said whoís right and whoís wrong, so my post was never meant to bash the USA or anything like that, dontí be so paranoid and feel offended so soon. I have other reasons for not liking American policy, something this post wasnít about, it actually wasnít about a policy at all.
About the fall our government: well I havenít voted for either of those parties, but I think tís a good thing theyív fallen apart, since the LPF is a very unstabile party with their members being egocentric and much to eager for (personal) power.

But back to the original topic. To call envy the reason is very easy, because this simply implies they're the bad guys and we can't help it that they hate us. In fact then they are the cause for the hatred themselves, because they are stupid envious people. Stating that the huge influence of the (culture of the) rich on the (culture of the) poor is a main cause for hatred may to some imply that the rich are wrong or bad or deliberately opresssing the poor. They aren't, but it just happens to be this way (sometimes they are and then the rich and powerful are acting in a wrong way, but this doesn't necesarely have to be this way)
Why not just envy? Well, that is personal in a way yes, but I wouldn't hate anyone just because they are more powerful or rich. So be it, I don't need to be wealthy, though I want to be independent. But if they are more powerful and rich, well I don't think anyone would have a problem with that as long as this power doen't influence your way of life.

I wasn't claiming that you were outright socialists or communists. I'm talking about the policies of your government and the political climate of the country being VERY leftist, which is something you've already admitted to.

Communist phobia? I don't think a flawed political system is anything to be afraid of anymore. The cold war is over and there isn't a communist country in the world that's prospering.
Xenophobia? Ummm...I'm disagreeing with your politics, not the fact that you're a foreigner. Yes, I do think free-market capitalism (not completely without regulation) is superior to socialism and communism. Sorry to spoil the mulicultural\idealogical lovefest!
I didn't think your arguement was aimed against America. I think it was aimed against capitalist ideology.

I've got to admit that your post was VERY confusing. I can't really tell what you're trying to say. First, you claim that the rich are oppressing the poor, but not necessarily on purpose. Then you claim that you wouldn't hate the rich yourself.
Still, you haven't explained why the "potential" influence of the rich on the poor is more important than the "potential" influence of the poor envying the rich except to say that you yourself don't envy the rich (are you poor?). If anything, I think it's the left that tries to aggrandize and manipulate the plight of the poor to benefit their politics, which only serves to enhance the hatred and envy of the poor.
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