The Generation who watched our African brothers and sisters get put on the trains?

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Blacksword said:
It is most certainly a race issue. The West's attitude has been disgustingly paternal right up to the present. We seem to consider Africa a dissolute son who won't get his act togetehr and has no intention of doing so. WE CREATED THE PROBLEMS

You don't gut a continent with colonialsim for a couple centuries, destroy all of its social structures, grind its people into the dust, keep them uneducated and unskilled and then expect them to be just fine when you up and leave one day. Then you tell them to solve their problems with Western methods (cause those are the best of course) at the same time as raping the countries of teh resources and any wealth left. Then you bring down anyone who resists you (Patrice Lumumba in the Congo) and keep petty dictators in power. To expect Africans to do just fine after all that would be a grand joke if it weren't for the millions of African corpses piling up every year.

The West has a blood debt that growls larger with every passing hour. And still it treats Africans as children.

This kind of racism is easy since you never see the target of you rprejudice and therefore are never confronted by it. THEY are over there so passing judgement is very easy.

Your post makes a lot of sense Blacksword. It is sad to think of our country as one that is still racist. I hope that the younger generations in our country are moving beyond racism.
 
Scarletwine said:
I definitely think race has an effect on our response to the crises in Africa. It has been a factor in our foreign relations forever. We have treated Africa as a second class continent. With the Administrations intense ecomonic, racial, and religious conservatism this trend will continue.

Sherry in your other thread you praised my senator, Mike Dewine for his backing of 180,000 million in aid. I feel that is such a small amount and almost half of what was promised (300,000), that I have no praise for him. It is nothing more than a TOKEN a bone thrown for effect. If our government was serious about the issue they would appropriate much more.

How about taking the tax money they are attempting to give to gas-guzzling SUV's and give that to Africa?
:

:laugh: at the SUV idea. Now there's creative legislation!

I have to say, I don't remember ever mentioning Sen. Dewine. ???

And yes, great post Blacksword. I think it's a subsconscious racism, the kind that doesn't express itself it hatred but rather, though indifference.

:(

SD
 
Just two days ago the Senate yesterday passed by a 69-29 vote its
version of the fiscal year 2003 omnibus appropriations bill, which
includes $180 million for the global fight against HIV/AIDS.
YAAAYYY!! (Now we have to make sure it passes the full Congress.)

Sherry,
I took it from the other thread about calling the Whitehouse Wed.

"The amendment, co-sponsored by Sens. Mike DeWine (R-Ohio) and Dick Durbin (D-Ill.), would authorize about $100 million toward the U.S. contribution to the Global Fund to Fight HIV/AIDS, Tuberculosis and Malaria. ect." Still way too meager.
 
Its the most insidious kind unfortunately and its not just America. Canadains aren't doing much about it either. Just as a reference to the Holocost example, we turned Jews back too. Its moreof that wonderfully British brand of prejudice that we inheritied from our ancestors. The don't ask don't tell, not in my back yard prejudice. Its all very polite and all of course. The problem especially in hte area where I live is the number of nice comfortably well off people. You know the kind the type who have the cars, the new house every few years etc. Right around my church new houses are going up and they start at around $800 000 Canadian. A citizens group in Oakville the town where these houses are going up (I'm from the next city over - still rich but not ridiculously so, though I know I most certainly am not) violently protested the opening of a Salvation Army shelter in their neighborhood. They were screaming about how the homeless people whould rape their children and other garbage. And we expect that sort of people to care about Africa? We are much too comfortable here in North America and that has bred fear and even hatred of anyone in need. They represent the price of our hedonistic lifestyle that which we fat Westerners enjoy most and we hate them for the reminder. We think we have come so far yet we still live in a world where the rich hate the poor for being poor. Social Darwinism is still very much alive and well.

Well its time for people to realize that no degree of "fitness" gave them their riches. It was pure chance that we were born into the life that we have. I like to think of Bono's line in the Band-Aid Christmas single "tonight thank God its them instead of you". Only grace put you where you are. And to whom much is given much is expected. We are our brothers' and sisters' keepers especially when we thorugh our society have played such a part in creating and maintaining their plight.

Well enough pontificating... sorry I just get worked up over this stuff. I'm guilty of turning my head too. I'd heard about it, but it wasn't until I read an article in the Presbyterian Chuch's national publication recently that I really gave thought to this issue.
 
hi,

I tend to agree w him, but I'm not feeling very well tonite and I just barely typed out a funny response to a funny topic, wherein this was on the 'similar threads' under topic postings- so I clicked on to see what was up here.

I hope to repond further, oh, some days from now when I feel better and have more money to get back on this public net place.
 
Well nice to see this post back . Here is my two cents worth
All through history countries have failed at times to come to the aid of other countires and nations.. the question will always arise duty to country vrs. our moral duty . History judged them , we judged them in their actions. And as it has been said so many time before this emergency in Africa is that big that we will be judged to on how we respond . The ramifications of leaving Africa behind on this are more then just moral.

So lets put this in to humanitarian terms instead of per country . If we except individuals regardless of race, religion, cultural beliefs etc. etc. as equal truly equal then simply we would not let this happen, then 6500 lives a day in Africa should hit right at the heartstrings of who we are as human being because it is absolutely ridicoulous.. the morality of what that means for me is just to much to do nothing.. I also understand everybody has the right to feel different about how there money is spent by their government and if truly you feel that money should not go to foreign aid and development then that is your right and not mine to judge or anyone elses..

But by the grace of god and for reasons I'm not aware of I have been given a good life in a great country and I feel a responsibility to use what I have been given to make a difference for others wherever I can .. thats my choice . For me I have the guilt of sticking my head in the sand for to long.

If we really put the same value on an african life as our own then it is way paste the time for excuses or laying blame .. this emergency is so much bigger then anyone person or country , anyone ego ,any religious institution . And it is going to take humanity at it's very best to turn the tide.. luckily I believe in the power of the human spirit
 
Bono and money can't help Africa

Bono and all the money in the world can't help Africa.

The blacks in Africa want to continue having sex daily and continue to pump out as many children as they can. Giving them $billions is only condoning their behavior and it's not throwing water on the fire, it's throwing gasoline on the fire.

The cure for AIDS has been around for 20 years now, and it doesn't cost anything to buy.

As long as you stay away from drug needles and premarital intercourse, it's impossible to get AIDS.

The babies that are born with AIDS will just die in a few years anyways, the medication won't help them much.

We told the Africans 20 years ago if they keep doing what they do, they'll continue to get aids,and of course - they didn't change their behavior.

Only one country on this planet has dealt with AIDS and has defeated AIDS, and that is Cuba. Cuba realized that AIDS can spread, and that AIDS is deadly. So, Cuba took all of the AIDS-infected people it knew of into one community, and barred that community from interacting with others, and then CUBA sat back and watch the rates of new aids infection fall until the rate almost hit zero. Now Cuba can claim victory.

The sad thing is, we could have done that in America back in the mid 1980's, but the ACLU and civil rights organizations would have gone crazy if we took all the HIV-infected people and kept them separate from society. So, instead America decided to give these people as much freedom as they want. And now we're here 20 years later looking at more HIV infected people in America than ever before, with young straight girls contracting the disease the fastest, and with thousands dying in America, when it all could have been avoided. A restriction of freedom would have saved so many American lives, it worked wonders in Cuba. Now, 20 years later the ACLU is yelling about the restrictions of freedom the Patriot Act is taking, but we'll see once again in about 20 years how many American lives this Patriot Act will have saved. The problem with total freedom is that it allows your neighbor to do whatever he/she wants to do, and that is not a good thing.
 
Re: Bono and money can't help Africa

U2LipstickBoy said:
Bono and all the money in the world can't help Africa.

The blacks in Africa want to continue having sex daily and continue to pump out as many children as they can. Giving them $billions is only condoning their behavior and it's not throwing water on the fire, it's throwing gasoline on the fire.

The cure for AIDS has been around for 20 years now, and it doesn't cost anything to buy.

As long as you stay away from drug needles and premarital intercourse, it's impossible to get AIDS.

The babies that are born with AIDS will just die in a few years anyways, the medication won't help them much.

We told the Africans 20 years ago if they keep doing what they do, they'll continue to get aids,and of course - they didn't change their behavior.

Only one country on this planet has dealt with AIDS and has defeated AIDS, and that is Cuba. Cuba realized that AIDS can spread, and that AIDS is deadly. So, Cuba took all of the AIDS-infected people it knew of into one community, and barred that community from interacting with others, and then CUBA sat back and watch the rates of new aids infection fall until the rate almost hit zero. Now Cuba can claim victory.

The sad thing is, we could have done that in America back in the mid 1980's, but the ACLU and civil rights organizations would have gone crazy if we took all the HIV-infected people and kept them separate from society. So, instead America decided to give these people as much freedom as they want. And now we're here 20 years later looking at more HIV infected people in America than ever before, with young straight girls contracting the disease the fastest, and with thousands dying in America, when it all could have been avoided. A restriction of freedom would have saved so many American lives, it worked wonders in Cuba. Now, 20 years later the ACLU is yelling about the restrictions of freedom the Patriot Act is taking, but we'll see once again in about 20 years how many American lives this Patriot Act will have saved. The problem with total freedom is that it allows your neighbor to do whatever he/she wants to do, and that is not a good thing.

That is the most hateful and uneducated post I've seen ever. Why don't you educate yourself about the situation in Africa and AIDS before you spew off your hate. I would try and do it myself but the truth is I think it would be a waste of my time.
 
That may in fact be the most racist, idiot thing I have ever read on this forum .


I agree ,
let you that have not sinned throw the first stone, wow U2lipstick boy or whatever your name was that was an a big stone .. thing is it is more like a slingshot you threw.. I hope it doesnt come back on ya.. " i respect your right to your opinion but might I add how wrong I find it to be and sad. I wonder if you could stand face to face with those hit hardest by this in Africa and give them that view.. I'm sorry you feel that way .

And Blacksword.. great post
 
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Bono is wrong. It doesn't matter what happens, Christianity won't eve NOT exist. You can't blame God for the things we do. His work, his mission, his church will still remain.
 
The cure for aids is free

Money won't solve the AIDS problem in Africa, it hasn't even solved the AIDS problem in America. America is said to be the richest nation, but 20 years into this AIDS problem, America is facing the highest amount of AIDS-infected citizens that it has ever had. Money doesn't solve the AIDS problem because the cure for AIDS is free. The cure for AIDS has been around for over 20 years now.

At some point, a government has to declare AIDS to be a national killing spree, and they have to take all the AIDS infected people and they have to bar them from making any contact with other people, that is the only way to stop AIDS.

There is a direct correlation in Africa between the increase in money we give to Africa and an increase in new AIDS-infected cases in Africa. The more money we give to Africa over the years has led to more AIDS-infected cases, and that is a FACT. The World Health Organization has studies showing that the more money being given is just prolonging the lives of people that already have AIDS, so now there are more people living longer with AIDS having more children, and thus, giving birth to more AIDS babies.

Back in the 1980's, we threw $ hundreds of millions into Africa, the AIDS-problem got worse. Then the world started throwing $ billions into Africa, and the AIDS problem got worse again. At what point will people realize that money does not solve the AIDS problem, it only makes it worse.

It's sad to see that the world just won't follow the breakthrough precedent that Cuba set. The BBC along with other news agencies has sent reporters to Cuba, and they have all seen the progress. Molly Bentley, a BBC news reporter used these exact words "There has been no dramatic increase in HIV transmission in Cuba since the beginning of the epidemic." Molly went on to say "Cuba's infection rate is one of the lowest in the world." "Cuba has set an example of political leadership in its response to the AIDS crisis", according to Monica Ruiz, from the US National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases.

In about 10 years time, Cuba will not have anyone in their country with AIDS, while Africa will still be burying upwards of 7,000 people a day, and we will see that money does not solve AIDS.
 
At some point, a government has to declare AIDS to be a national killing spree, and they have to take all the AIDS infected people and they have to bar them from making any contact with other people, that is the only way to stop AIDS.

You have got to be kidding me right.. right.. Do you know how obsered you sound.

There is a direct correlation in Africa between the increase in money we give to Africa and an increase in new AIDS-infected cases in Africa. The more money we give to Africa over the years has led to more AIDS-infected cases, and that is a FACT. The World Health Organization has studies showing that the more money being given is just prolonging the lives of people that already have AIDS, so now there are more people living longer with AIDS having more children, and thus, giving birth to more AIDS babies.

Okay first of, as well know thes AV's are not a cure for Aids.. yes they prolong life . But again do you know how obsered you sound.. plus I know the WHO statistics and could you please show me the correlation of money to aids casses.. The increase in casses will continue the increase has occured becasue the money has taken and is taking so long to get to them.. It's not like the money arrives and poof there goes the aids cases..

I shouldnt even respond to your post because i find it just .. well there are not words for it but look I am.

You are right in one thing though Money in itself does not solve Aids.. good for you on that point.. Education, prevention, etc.. etc.. Debt relief etc. etc..
 
The cure is free, you don't need money for free stuff

The absurd notion of throwing billions of money to a problem that can be solved for free is killing thousands of Africans. Giving drugs to people in Africa that already have AIDS is allowing these AIDS-infected people to live longer. So, these AIDS-infected people are now living longer, which means they now have more years to give birth to more HIV children, have sex with more people, and share more drug needles... and thus the pyramid scheme has begun.

Africa has been getting international funding for over 15 years now, and the more money Africa gets, the more AIDS-infected people Africa is getting. The money has had more than enough time to sink in, it's time to cut the money off. It's time to stop babying the Africans and treating them like little kids, and let them solve their own problem.

Cuba solved their own AIDS problem. Cuba is light years ahead of America when it comes to AIDS.

The BBC is a respected news agency, the BBC has sent reporters to Cuba, and these BBC reporters all say the same thing - Cuba has the solution, and the solution doesn't cost much money.

Cuba didn't need Bono or Beyonce dancing on a stage, Cuba didn't need $ billions to eliminate AIDS.
 
Re: The cure for aids is free

U2LipstickBoy said:
The cure for AIDS has been around for over 20 years now.

What is the cure, please do tell us. I'd like to buy stocks from your company.

In the event you believe that having no premarital sex or not sharing needles is a cure, I would encourage you to look up the definition of 'cure'.

As for the rest of your posts - grim.
 
U2LipstickBoy said:
The absurd notion of throwing billions of money to a problem that can be solved for free is killing thousands of Africans. Giving drugs to people in Africa that already have AIDS is allowing these AIDS-infected people to live longer. So, these AIDS-infected people are now living longer, which means they now have more years to give birth to more HIV children, have sex with more people, and share more drug needles... and thus the pyramid scheme has begun.

So you think that drugs that allow people with AIDS/HIV to remain healthy for longer are a bad thing? Perhaps you'd advocate doctors telling people with AIDS/HIV to just go away and die, stop wasting their time and money? :rolleyes: I'm curious though, as to what your position would be with regard to drugs that don't specifically treat AIDS or HIV but treat the illnesses that result from AIDS. Would you suggest that a person should die from a treatable condition just because that condition is as a result of them having AIDS? Would you suggest that people are left to suffer from treatable conditions because they'll eventually die from AIDS? And I'm not even going to get into how disgusted I am at the way you reduce people's lives to just "having sex" and "sharing needles."

Africa has been getting international funding for over 15 years now, and the more money Africa gets, the more AIDS-infected people Africa is getting. The money has had more than enough time to sink in, it's time to cut the money off. It's time to stop babying the Africans and treating them like little kids, and let them solve their own problem.

Over the last 20 years there's been an increase in funding for research into a cure for cancer. Over the last 20 years there's also been an increase in the number of cases of cancer. So is it true that throwing money at cancer is just leading to more cases of cancer?

Cuba solved their own AIDS problem. Cuba is light years ahead of America when it comes to AIDS.

Are you a supporter of the Cuban government in general?
 
The cure is free

Websters Dictionary defines the word 'cure'

cure : remedy, recovery from disease

Cuba has had the cure for AIDS for years now, that is why Cuba now has one of the lowest infection rates for AIDS in the world. Cuba has the remedy, Cuba has recovered from their high AIDS rates in 1983, Cuba has the CURE.

Too many people think that the cure is going to come in a needle or a pill, and that the cure is going to cost $ billions, these are the same people throwing $billions into Africa and then they seem perplexed when Bono is throwing out numbers such as upwards of 7000 people are dying a day from AIDS in Cuba.

The BBC is correct with their views of Cuba, the World Health Organization also has shown how money is making the problem worse.

People who think money is the solution to AIDS, these must be the same people who pass homeless people on the street and throw $5 dollar bills into their cardboard box. I guess if you think that buying alcohol for homeless people is a solution to homelessness, then you'll probably also think that money can also solve the AIDS problem. It's too bad that more people don't read the newspaper, NY TIMES, the BBC along with countless other news sources such as 60 MINUTES have shown the simple effort Cuba went to when they eliminated AIDS.
 
Re: The cure is free

U2LipstickBoy said:
Websters Dictionary defines the word 'cure'

cure : remedy, recovery from disease

Cuba has had the cure for AIDS for years now, that is why Cuba now has one of the lowest infection rates for AIDS in the world. Cuba has the remedy, Cuba has recovered from their high AIDS rates in 1983, Cuba has the CURE.

How do you get from the second sentence of your post describing a cure as "recovery from disease" to claiming that Cuba has the cure for AIDS? How many people in Cuba have recovered from AIDS?
 
U2 LipstickBoy,

Wow just in one day you've made quite a stir, offensive and hateful comments about Middle-Easterners and AIDs victims just within a few hours. If you're looking to piss people off it worked.

First of all your definition of 'cure' is warped. I honestly hope that you or your significant other never has to deal with rape, or that your innocent child isn't born with a horrible disease, because if so the government will be knocking on your door to take them away from you and put them in some Leper camp.

What is this "free cure" you keep talking about, what is free in this world?

Do you realize that sex education isn't offered in most of Africa? This continent is a victim of being uneducated and lacking of resources. This is where part of the money goes. No one here said money will be the cure. A large percentage of AIDS victims in Africa are rape victims and innocent children. 3 out of 5 women of age 18 have already been raped in this country, but I'm sure we should blame them for that?!

Your correlation between money and AIDS is complete bullshit.

The rest of your comments I won't even bother with.
 
Cuba has recovered, that is a cure

Cuba has recovered, they have the cure for AIDS, they've got the solution and it worked. No single person in Cuba that had AIDS has recovered, they all die like all other people die regardless if they have AIDS or not. Cuba viewed the people with AIDS as a sunk cost and Cuba did not spend one dollar on the people that already had AIDS. Cuba instead focused on the majority of people that do NOT have AIDS, and that was the recovery for Cuba's high infection rate was to keep the healthy people away from the AIDS infected people, and EUREKA - it worked.

While Cuba's rates of AIDS drastically went down over the past 20 years, Africa's rates have drastically gone up. Cuba now has one of the lowest rates in the world, and Africa's AIDS problem will continue to get worse until they adopt Cuba's cure.
 
BonoVoxSupastar, you're right, money does solve AIDS. So, using your theory, America is the richest nation in the world, so America also has the lowest rates of AIDS infections in the world. But oops, that isn't the case, so your theory just fell apart, and using your favorite word, your theory is 'bullshit'.

Wake up BonoVoxSupastar, open a newspaper, stop thinking that America is the best nation in the world. Start reading some international newspapers, see what other countries are doing, see how other countries handle stuff. Teenage girls in America are the fastest group of people in America contracting AIDS, there are more AIDS cases in America now than ever.

People have to start opening newspapers and educating themselves, it's silly to see what some people are saying.
 
Re: Cuba has recovered, that is a cure

U2LipstickBoy said:
Cuba has recovered, they have the cure for AIDS, they've got the solution and it worked. No single person in Cuba that had AIDS has recovered, they all die like all other people die regardless if they have AIDS or not. Cuba viewed the people with AIDS as a sunk cost and Cuba did not spend one dollar on the people that already had AIDS. Cuba instead focused on the majority of people that do NOT have AIDS, and that was the recovery for Cuba's high infection rate was to keep the healthy people away from the AIDS infected people, and EUREKA - it worked.

While Cuba's rates of AIDS drastically went down over the past 20 years, Africa's rates have drastically gone up. Cuba now has one of the lowest rates in the world, and Africa's AIDS problem will continue to get worse until they adopt Cuba's cure.

Ignorance and hatred are highly contagious, especially from parent to child. Should these people be placed apart from society, ignored and left to die?
 
U2LipstickBoy said:
BonoVoxSupastar, you're right, money does solve AIDS. So, using your theory, America is the richest nation in the world, so America also has the lowest rates of AIDS infections in the world. But oops, that isn't the case, so your theory just fell apart, and using your favorite word, your theory is 'bullshit'.

Wake up BonoVoxSupastar, open a newspaper, stop thinking that America is the best nation in the world. Start reading some international newspapers, see what other countries are doing, see how other countries handle stuff. Teenage girls in America are the fastest group of people in America contracting AIDS, there are more AIDS cases in America now than ever.

People have to start opening newspapers and educating themselves, it's silly to see what some people are saying.

First of all read my post. I agreed that money did not solve AIDS but it can help to prevent (with education and resources) and help those who live with it to have a more bearable life. So try again.

When did I even mention America?

And you're absolutely right some people do need education, for what they are saying is silly.
 
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You've just acknowledged that not a single person in Cuba has recovered from AIDS. You've also acknowledged that a cure means a "recovery from disease." Can you not connect these facts and come to the conclusion that there is no cure for AIDS, in Cuba or elsewhere? While we're on the subject, what is your opinion of the Cuban government in other matters? Are you a supporter of all their policies, or is your admiration limited to this one issue?

I can't even begin to explain how offensive your suggestion that people with AIDS ought to be isolated from other people is. It's clearly inspired by some belief on your part that if a perosn is affected by AIDS it must be their own fault, and therefore isolating them from everyone else is a fair "punishment." I wonder what you would say to the thousands of children who were born HIV+, the thousands of women who contracted HIV because they were raped, or indeed the millions of people whose only crime was to live in a country where education about HIV/AIDS is non-existant.
 
Katey, BVS, Fizzing--

Bravo. I didn't even think someone who sounds like he wants to nominate Castro to Humantiarian Leader of the Year was worth responding to, but you all transcended my cynicism with insight, clarity, passion and, I'd imagine, not a little restraint. :p

:applaud:

sd
 
U2Lipstickboy,

Please acquaint yourself with the difference between prevention and cure. You are spouting medical nonsense here.
 
BBC - Cuba leads the way in HIV fight

By Molly Bentley - BBC News Online

Few stories about HIV/Aids infection bring hope. But in the Caribbean, where communism takes its last gasp, there is encouragement in the fight against Aids.

"Cuba has a lid on the HIV/Aids problem," said Byron Barksdale, the director of the American Cuban Aids Project, a non-profit organisation that provides humanitarian aid to the island.

There is virtually no transmission of the virus through intravenous drug use, blood transfusion or to newborns at birth.

Cuba's low HIV infection rate is due largely to the country's extraordinary response in early years of the epidemic.


ALL OF THAT ABOVE COMES FROM THE BBC, say what you want about Cuba or Castro, but the BBC is a credible source. Castro has saved thousands of lives in Cuba, and so many children are alive today due to Castro making the correct decisions.

If you disagree with what's above, you're disagreeing with the BBC, the World Health Organization, CNN which has covered this story extensively, and you're disagreeing with FACT.

Tomorrow, another few thousand Africans will die of AIDS, while in Cuba tomorrow, you won't see anyone die of AIDS. Until the blacks in Africa change their ways, stop the drugs - sex - needles, and look at Cuba as being a pioneer, millions more of Africans will continue to die. Bono is good, but Bono and Beyonce dancing on a stage can't do much to change people's behavior.
 
.....

Cuba took PREVENTION in the 1980's. There is no longer a prevention, as there is no longer AIDS to prevent.

A full-scale prevention mandated by the Cuban government has leds to the elimination of AIDS in Cuba, hence, Cuba has cured the problem.

Cuba no longer has a prevention, because there is nothing to prevent. You won't see Bono and Beyonce dancing on a stage in Cuba, as there are now no problems with AIDS in Cuba.
 
Re: .....

U2LipstickBoy said:
Cuba took PREVENTION in the 1980's. There is no longer a prevention, as there is no longer AIDS to prevent.

A full-scale prevention mandated by the Cuban government has leds to the elimination of AIDS in Cuba, hence, Cuba has cured the problem.

Cuba no longer has a prevention, because there is nothing to prevent. You won't see Bono and Beyonce dancing on a stage in Cuba, as there are now no problems with AIDS in Cuba.


Get your facts straight. There are currently approximately 3,500 people living with AIDS in Cuba right now.

They have controlled it from spreading in epidemic proportions but it hasn't been eliminated.
 
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