the conservative case for same sex marriage - Page 38 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 02-23-2011, 05:04 PM   #556
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 16,277
Local Time: 07:12 PM
Huckabee has it right.

First, you deny teenagers proper sex ed, and instead push abstinence. This is key. Then when that (inevitably) fails because of satan and Hollywood, you force the couple to marry for the sake of the child. This won't at all contribute to increasing the divorce rate or to unhappy marriages.
__________________

__________________
anitram is offline  
Old 02-23-2011, 10:04 PM   #557
Blue Crack Addict
 
Moonlit_Angel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In a dimension known as the Twilight Zone...do de doo doo, do de doo doo...
Posts: 19,258
Local Time: 06:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pearl View Post
Uhm, maybe those mothers have good reasons not to be married to their children's fathers? Maybe those fathers walked out on their kids because they weren't man enough to take care of them? Maybe those mothers believe their lives are healthier and better without abusive men around? Hasn't Huckabee ever thought of those ideas?
Well, guess he figures those were straight relationships, so even though they went to crap, at least it was a heterosexual union of some kind for a time.

I just want to know what the hell kind of argument this is:

Quote:
"He's been a good husband and a good father," Huckabee told POLITICO. "Unfortunately, his policies are not necessarily conducive to helping other people, in their own families, to be good husbands and good fathers."
Huh?

Very pleased to hear that news about not defending DOMA anymore. It should never have been worthy of defending to begin with (it just shouldn't have existed at all), of course, but better late than never.

Angela
__________________

__________________
Moonlit_Angel is online now  
Old 02-23-2011, 10:35 PM   #558
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
the iron horse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: in a glass of CheerWine
Posts: 3,251
Local Time: 07:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kramwest1 View Post
Um, for much of human history, hasn't that been grandma's job?




I think the notion of a nuclear family is rather mid- to late-20th century.

What?

The idea of a mother and father is a late development in history?
__________________
the iron horse is offline  
Old 02-23-2011, 11:16 PM   #559
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,664
Local Time: 06:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by the iron horse View Post
What?

The idea of a mother and father is a late development in history?
That's not what he said. Did you read his post?

Where are all those Biblical examples of mother-father-children ideal families that you speak about?
__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 02-24-2011, 01:04 AM   #560
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 04:12 PM
Quote:
Edith Schlain Windsor, the plaintiff in the New York case, married another woman, the late Clara Spyer, in Canada in 2007, according to her complaint. While New York legally recognized their marriage, and afforded them the same protections as other married couples, the two women weren’t considered married under federal law, she said.

Federal Tax Law

The case claims that under U.S. tax law, the transfer of money and property doesn’t trigger any estate tax on a spouse who is widowed. Because of the Defense of Marriage Act, Windsor was forced to pay more than $350,000 in taxes that she wouldn’t have had to pay if her marriage to Spyer had been recognized under federal law, according to the complaint.
federal tax laws must be the same for all Americans
__________________
deep is online now  
Old 02-24-2011, 11:15 AM   #561
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,475
Local Time: 07:12 PM
according to a married friend i have, it's rather emotionally brutal too, to file taxes as "single" federally whereas she files as "married" in Massachusetts.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 02-24-2011, 12:08 PM   #562
has a
 
kramwest1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Not a toliet wall
Posts: 6,939
Local Time: 06:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by the iron horse View Post
What?

The idea of a mother and father is a late development in history?
Quote:
Originally Posted by kramwest1 View Post
The only place that has consistently had a "traditional" family is 1950's clip art.
Yes, it's an incredibly important job to raise children, but who has done that throughout history has been different (and probably changed) in every culture. Grandmothers, grandfathers, great-grandmothers, aunts, siblings, neighbors and nannies have been just as responsible for raising children as mothers. The only "correct" structure is the one that is consistently there for the children. The only formula is caring and attention. There is no specific gender to it. There is no specific relation to it.

Just as conservatives who don't want gay people to marry should be railing against divorce within their own ranks, apparently they also should be railing against daycare. Heaven forbid someone other than mom raise the child.
I maintain that a "nuclear" family structure is largely a late-20th century phenomenon.
__________________
Bread & Circuses
kramwest1 is offline  
Old 02-24-2011, 12:24 PM   #563
has a
 
kramwest1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Not a toliet wall
Posts: 6,939
Local Time: 06:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
according to a married friend i have, it's rather emotionally brutal too, to file taxes as "single" federally whereas she files as "married" in Massachusetts.
I still feel that government should just get out of the marriage business. Why should I get additional benefits because I was able to cough up $75 (I think it was) at the license bureau (which is what my wife and I did--we eloped.)?

I don't think you can simultaneously promote equality and marriage. The government should ensure equality for all people at all times. Some people aren't fit for marriage for various reasons.

Until we get this, I support government recognizing gay marriage because it is a step toward this equality. I also support legal unions. I see no reason that siblings or a parent and child can't form a government-sanctioned union to get a tax advantage or to get benefits from an employer. This is especially true in circumstances where one is caring for the other who is ill. But again, if we recognized citizens' rights to health care for all, this really wouldn't be necessary.
__________________
Bread & Circuses
kramwest1 is offline  
Old 02-24-2011, 01:07 PM   #564
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,475
Local Time: 07:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kramwest1 View Post
I maintain that a "nuclear" family structure is largely a late-20th century phenomenon.


once, after breaking the picture window while playing stickball with friends, Mary said to Jesus, "oh, just WAIT until your father gets home!" and Jesus KNEW he was in for it, because Joseph wouldn't hesitate to bring out the belt on occasion.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 02-24-2011, 01:21 PM   #565
Forum Moderator
 
yolland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 01:12 AM
Let me tell you, Jewish mothers do NOT wait for Dad to come home before laying down the law.
__________________
yolland [at] interference.com


μελετώ αποτυγχάνειν. -- Διογένης της Σινώπης
yolland is offline  
Old 02-24-2011, 01:27 PM   #566
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,475
Local Time: 07:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yolland View Post
Let me tell you, Jewish mothers do NOT wait for Dad to come home before laying down the law.


you're right.

i was projecting 1950's-style American WASP values upon people who lived over 2,000 years ago, and i'm probably going to get a few things wrong.

i'm sure she gave him a good wallop on his tush and told him to stop being such a shlemiel.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 02-24-2011, 03:44 PM   #567
Blue Crack Addict
 
PhilsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Standing on the shore, facing east.
Posts: 18,874
Local Time: 07:12 PM
I really enjoy not being a WASP. I'd be so embarrassed, as strange as that sounds.
__________________
PhilsFan is online now  
Old 02-25-2011, 12:08 AM   #568
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 04:12 PM
Gay Marriage Seems to Wane as Conservative Issue

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/25/us...er=rss&emc=rss
__________________
deep is online now  
Old 02-25-2011, 01:38 AM   #569
Forum Moderator
 
yolland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 01:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
you're right.

i was projecting 1950's-style American WASP values upon people who lived over 2,000 years ago, and i'm probably going to get a few things wrong.
To be clear, the was in reference to the general tactic of "Just WAIT until your father gets home!", not your ascribing it to Jesus' mother, whose preferred disciplinary methods are really anyone's guess. But I actually do remember a friend's mother snapping that at her when I was a kid and my thinking, "What a weird, lame thing to say." It seemed like a way more hostile response than just punishing her on the spot--an "I hate having to put up with you, and can't wait to watch you squirm!" kind of thing. Maybe it was just the way she said it, but...
__________________
yolland [at] interference.com


μελετώ αποτυγχάνειν. -- Διογένης της Σινώπης
yolland is offline  
Old 02-25-2011, 10:34 AM   #570
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,475
Local Time: 07:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yolland View Post
To be clear, the was in reference to the general tactic of "Just WAIT until your father gets home!", not your ascribing it to Jesus' mother, whose preferred disciplinary methods are really anyone's guess. But I actually do remember a friend's mother snapping that at her when I was a kid and my thinking, "What a weird, lame thing to say." It seemed like a way more hostile response than just punishing her on the spot--an "I hate having to put up with you, and can't wait to watch you squirm!" kind of thing. Maybe it was just the way she said it, but...


oh, i was trying to continue to be funny ... in the way that, as you have noted in the past when people read what Jesus may or may not have said about marriage and then they nod self-satisfactorily and say, "yup, honey, that sure sounds like us," we seem to take our contemporary understanding of things like family, or our understanding of interactions between husbands and wives and parents and children and project them onto people in the past. i found it funny to imagine a Normal Rockwell-type scene only with Jesus, Mary, and Joseph, like Jesus got bad grades or something and his gender-appropriate parents gave him a stern-but-loving talking-to at the dinner table, because of course families are timeless and interact in exactly the same way then as we do now. because families are always a mother and a father taking separate but equal roles in parenting and children are raised today much the way they were 2,000 years ago.
__________________

__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Proposition 8 discussion continued yolland Free Your Mind 797 03-03-2009 02:09 PM
SPLIT--> California's Proposition 8 on Same-Sex Marriage phillyfan26 Free Your Mind Archive 1002 11-08-2008 03:23 PM
Rate my album collection. shart1780 Lemonade Stand Archive 75 02-14-2008 12:07 AM
Go Home Human Shields, You U.S. Wankers... Iraqi Citizens topple main Saddam Statue Headache in a Suitcase Free Your Mind Archive 130 04-15-2003 08:48 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:12 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com