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Old 07-16-2002, 12:28 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by RavenStar
A normal crucifixion usually takes 2-3 weeks. But his only took 2-3 days.
Can you give any other information on these two statements?
Nothing I've ever seen would lead me to believe that the average Roman crucifixion took 2-3 weeks, and I don't know of any sources that suggest that Christ's crucifixion to 2-3 days.
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Old 07-16-2002, 12:32 PM   #17
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Jesus was crucified on good friday right? Isnt it said that he came back to life on Easter? Isnt easter 2-3 days after good friday?
Crucifixtions were quite common back then. Even people who get crucified today take atleast a week to die.
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Old 07-16-2002, 12:44 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by RavenStar
A normal crucifixion usually takes 2-3 weeks. But his only took 2-3 days. Maybe he didn't die but instead passed out therefore making it look like he came back to life.
Even if a crucifixion could last that long, I am under the impression that most take no more than a day or two. I'm certainly unaware of a "normal" crucifixion taking so long.

That said, consider John 19:31-35:

The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away. Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him. But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs: But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water. And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.

The Romans were under pressure to keep this particular set of executions brief, since the Passover sabbath was quickly approaching. The Romans broke the legs of the other two, making them unable to push themselves up to breathe; they thus quickly died of asphyxiation.

They saw that Jesus was already dead and didn't break His legs. Just to be sure, they STILL pierced His side, likely puncturing a lung and His heart. If He WAS alive at the time (somehow convincingly faking death by asphyxiation), He was certainly killed by that wound.

He simply could not have survived the flogging, the nailing to the cross, the asphyxiation it caused, AND the final spear in the side. He did die that day.

(Even assuming the impossible feat of his survival, He would have been in an absolutely terrible condition following that day's events. He would have been hard pressed to claim victory over death, and it seems unlikely that His followers would do the same.)
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Old 07-16-2002, 12:54 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by RavenStar
Jesus was crucified on good friday right? Isnt it said that he came back to life on Easter? Isnt easter 2-3 days after good friday?
Crucifixtions were quite common back then. Even people who get crucified today take atleast a week to die.
According to the Bible, Christ's crucifixion took place in a day, and he was placed in a tomb that evening (what we call Good Friday) and he was ressurected on the third day (what we call Easter).


Yes, Curcifixtions were quite common back then, but I don't see why that would mean that most took 2-3 weeks. I don't see how someone sitting outside in a lazyboy recliner would survive for 2-3 weeks, let alone someone hanging from a piece of wood they've been nailed to. Help me understand.
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Old 07-16-2002, 02:47 PM   #20
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Bubba-

"In the Greek N.T. two words are used for "the cross," on which the Lord was put to death.

1. The word stauros; which denotes an upright pale or stake, to which the criminals were nailed for execution.
2. The word xulon, which generally denotes a piece of a dead log of wood, or timber, for fuel or any other purpose...

As the latter word xulon is used for the former stauros, it shoes us that the meaning of each is exactly the same...

Our English word "cross" is the translation of the Latin crux; but the Greek stauros no more means a crux than the word "stick" means a "crutch."
Homer uses the word stauros of an ordinary pole or stake, or a single piece of timber. And this is the meaning and usage of the word throughout the Greek classics.
It never means two pieces of timber placed across one another at any angle, but always of one piece alone. Hence the use of the word xulon in connection with the manner of our Lord's death, and rendered "tree" in Acts 5.30; 10.39; 13.29. Gal. 3.13. 1 Pet. 2.24....

There is nothing in the Greek of the N.T. even to imply two pieces of timber....

The Catacombs in Rome bear the same testimony: "Christ" is never represented there as "hanging on a cross"...

In his Letters from Rome, Dean Burgon says: "I question whether a cross occurs on any Christian monument of the first four centuries.""

~The Companion Bible (Kregel Publications), Appendix 162

The Appendix comes to the conclusion that because the Greek letter X was used as the first letter of Christ's name, it was a symbol later adopted by Christians from ancient pagan religions.

Nothing there, at least to me, provides any sort of evidence that Christ was NOT pierced through his hands, feet, and side...only that he was crucified on a stake and not a cross.
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Old 07-16-2002, 02:54 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by brettig
Isn't there a school of thought that Jesus was nailed to the cross thru his wrists rather than his hands?
This is accurate..
Actually it was the hands and wrists:idea:

DB9:idea:
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Old 07-16-2002, 04:11 PM   #22
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There is this picture up in a church in Isreal. In the picture, it appears that two men are carrying Jesus into a tomb. If oyu look closely though, there is a full moon. Now, I'm not that familiar wit the Jewish religion but I heard that on Sabbath, they would not touch a dead body. Therefore, Jesus was not dead. So they were carrying him OUT of the tomb.
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Old 07-16-2002, 05:30 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by RavenStar
There is this picture up in a church in Isreal. In the picture, it appears that two men are carrying Jesus into a tomb. If oyu look closely though, there is a full moon. Now, I'm not that familiar wit the Jewish religion but I heard that on Sabbath, they would not touch a dead body. Therefore, Jesus was not dead. So they were carrying him OUT of the tomb.
ohhh, so it was a real live photograph!!! I gotcha. ummm, honestly, do you really see this as "proof"? Because there is this little thing called artistic license which may very well explain it.
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Old 07-16-2002, 05:40 PM   #24
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it was a painting.
Do you really see a book as "proof"?
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Old 07-16-2002, 07:12 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by RavenStar
There is this picture up in a church in Isreal. In the picture, it appears that two men are carrying Jesus into a tomb. If oyu look closely though, there is a full moon. Now, I'm not that familiar wit the Jewish religion but I heard that on Sabbath, they would not touch a dead body. Therefore, Jesus was not dead. So they were carrying him OUT of the tomb.
That is of course assuming the two men are Jewish...they could have been Roman and not given a whit about the Passover...

I don't believe there is any law against doing what is necessary on the Sabbath...if your ox falls in a ditch you can pull him out...Jesus healed people on the sabbath...if someone had to be buried...you buried them.

And if he wasn't dead...why put him in the tomb in the first place?

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Old 07-16-2002, 07:13 PM   #26
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Se7en:

I was unaware of the meanings of the two Greek words, but I think it's a stretch to say with confidence, "As the latter word xulon is used for the former stauros, it shoes us that the meaning of each is exactly the same..."

Nor do I think it necessarily means that the cross was not T-shaped. As I said earlier, Dr. Metherell suggests that the cross involved a separate cross bar (a "patibulum") that was attached to a permanent vertical beam.

It's possible that "stauros" corresponds to the permanent vertical beam and "xulon" for the "patibulum" - or that "stauros" is merely shorthand for both, the way "the gallows" implies the presence of the all-important noose.

Either way, I don't think it invalidates the Bible in any way, just our mental picture of Golgotha. And if that mental picture is useful, it doesn't much matter.


Raven:

There is another explanation about that painting:

Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour. - Matthew 27:45.

And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour. And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst. Luke 23:44-45.

I happen to believe that the painting you mention merely employs artistic license. But it could ALSO be portraying the darkness that hung over the hours surrounding Jesus' death.

Either way, I'm not sure why you ask, "Do you really see a book as 'proof'?" since you also seem to use it as a reference material:

Quote:
A normal crucifixion usually takes 2-3 weeks. But his only took 2-3 days. Maybe he didn't die but instead passed out therefore making it look like he came back to life.
As far as I know, there are no sources for the amount of time Jesus spent on the cross, other than the New Testament Gospels themselves.

(Technically, they all suggest he died within only a few hours, but that strengthens your argument.)

I suggest that no one could have survived the sequence of events presented in the Gospels, but you then ask if the reference is to be believed.

If it ISN'T trustworthy, I don't think you can then claim that Jesus died within 2-3 days.
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Old 07-16-2002, 07:18 PM   #27
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I don't think romans would have been wearing those hat things(cant remember their name).
Since technology was limited back then they might not have known if Jesus was dead.
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Old 07-16-2002, 07:19 PM   #28
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Someone has yet to answer my flood query

And ravenstar is right to point out that two of every kind will NOT lead to a repopulation of these species' or "speci"

Is the flood a relative metaphor?
Maybe the WHOLE world was not flooded but for all they knew it was the world.

And actually its not given scientific fact that the WHOLE world was flooded,
They say there was a massive flood around the medeterannian or however you spell that damned word.
I think this is most likely.

That way most species of animals could survive outside the area and noahs animals could seek out these...

I don't know

grasping at straws
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Old 07-16-2002, 07:23 PM   #29
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YES Basstrap!!!!
Thats what I was trying to get across in my Black sea flood theory. And Noah would only have been able to take certain animals as they didnt have any elephants in his area.
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Old 07-16-2002, 08:25 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
Scientists universally agree that a A GREAT FLOOD occured parreling the Bibles chronologly.
A great flood did occur, but not a global one. Around 5000 B.C., it is believed that the Black Sea was created, as the Mediterranean Sea eroded a natural land dam, submerging a large, natural lake and the surrounding areas, shoving up the water level 500 feet. It probably rushed in very quickly, giving few a chance to escape. Considering that there was little knowledge of the world around them, they must have believed God was angry at them (which is a standard prehistoric excuse) and it *did* destroy their entire known world. As 5000 B.C. was well before written history (Genesis, itself, is only dated between 750-500 B.C.), oral tradition certainly obscured fact.

Evidence for this theory was found in artifacts found beneath 500 feet of water, where the water is completely devoid of oxygen and, hence, artifacts were well preserved. Likewise, there is no evidence for a worldwide flood.

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