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Old 07-22-2006, 09:46 AM   #196
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http://idealisticpragmatist.blogspot...-faux-pas.html

"That's the Bild-Zeitung, though, and an editorial called "Alone among men" that appeared in the Berlin-area regional newspaper Märkische Allgemeine came much closer to nailing what really happened:

" Although it was her first appearance there and although she was the only woman in the mega-macho-club of the G8, Merkel didn't let on at all that Jacques Chirac, Tony Blair and the other alpha males might have even tried to take away what was rightfully hers. Only George W. Bush didn't quite get it. While his fellow leaders were sitting at the table at the opening meeting, he came and caressed Angie's shoulders. She reacted as if it had been a natural disaster.

Nothing like that would ever have happened to Vladimir Putin. As long as you don't approach him with questions of democracy and criticism of his neoimperialistic ambitions, he abides by a strict sense of etiquette. "


Far from showing his great "love" for the chancellor, what this event really illustrates is Bush's appalling insensitivity to the fact that not everybody else's culture is just like his own. In Germany, this will be perceived not as a joke, but as a man showing a woman her place. Don't look so shocked, Mr. President--there are actually places in the world where you don't get to massage the shoulders of a woman (and a fellow world leader) whom you barely know. After six long years of hobnobbing with the international elite, I'd think you might have figured that out."

It's not only in Germany that it is perceived in that way either
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Old 07-22-2006, 11:30 AM   #197
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So what was the reason for those comments?
The reason for the comments is that they are comments that I would make to my friends or they would make to me. It's how I felt about the whole situation. If George had gone up to her and punched her, then I think the issue would be worth talking about. If they offended people, then so be it - I won't apologize for that. I'm tired of people biting their tongue because it could "offend" people. Say what's on your mind.
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Old 07-22-2006, 11:35 AM   #198
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Originally posted by najeena
This is what we get for electing a the guy who "we'd like to have a beer with" instead of the guy who knows diplomacy and culture. God willing, it will never happen again.
Perusing through this thread makes me think that even God isn't powerful enough to override His creation's stupidity.

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Old 07-22-2006, 11:38 AM   #199
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Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
[B
Don't look so shocked, Mr. President--there are actually places in the world where you don't get to massage the shoulders of a woman (and a fellow world leader) whom you barely know. [/B]
I read in The Times a week or so ago that in the few months since she's been Chancellor that Merkel and Bush have already developed a close personal friendship with several private get togethers.
Don't get me wrong, I think Bush acted inappropriately and it doesn't excuse his behaviour but it may go some way towards explaining it.
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Old 07-22-2006, 12:01 PM   #200
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As an autistic, I can't read body language. But even I picked up that the Chancellor wasn't exactly having a blast.
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Old 07-22-2006, 12:06 PM   #201
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Originally posted by najeena
This is what we get for electing a the guy who "we'd like to have a beer with" instead of the guy who knows diplomacy and culture. God willing, it will never happen again.
Yeah, too bad we didn't elect the man who had secret meetings with Communist leadership`during the Vietnam War and lied about his fellow soldiers' behaviors while the war was still raging and we still had POWs over there.

But thank goodness we did elect as commander-in-chief of our armed forces a draft dodger who protested America's involvment in the war while standing on Communist soil.
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Old 07-22-2006, 12:14 PM   #202
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


Yeah, too bad we didn't elect the man who had secret meetings with Communist leadership`during the Vietnam War and lied about his fellow soldiers' behaviors while the war was still raging and we still had POWs over there.

But thank goodness we did elect as commander-in-chief of our armed forces a draft dodger who protested America's involvment in the war while standing on Communist soil.


let's keep this train wreck of a thread on track please. Start another thread if you want to bad mouth Bill Clinton.
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Old 07-22-2006, 12:20 PM   #203
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest
Yeah, too bad we didn't elect the man who had secret meetings with Communist leadership`during the Vietnam War and lied about his fellow soldiers' behaviors while the war was still raging and we still had POWs over there.

But thank goodness we did elect as commander-in-chief of our armed forces a draft dodger who protested America's involvment in the war while standing on Communist soil.
Better yet, we elected a man who only nominally served in the National Guard (a common vehicle for the Vietnam-era privileged to avoid the war), while goofing off on a political campaign of a friend of Daddy's to avoid actually working.

And Clinton wasn't a "draft dodger." College education was (and might still be, actually) a legitimate reason to avoid service. Dick Cheney actually has a much more colorful history when it comes to this subject:

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There continues to be some controversy involving Dick Cheney and the draft, due in part to Cheney's five draft deferments. In January 1959, when Mr. Cheney reached age 18 and was classified as 1-A — available for service — he was doing poorly at Yale. At that time, however, the military was taking only older men, and like most others who were in college at the time, Cheney had little concern about being drafted. In June 1962, Cheney left Yale to return home to Casper, where he worked as a lineman for a power company. In 1962, only 82,060 men were inducted into the service, the fewest since 1949. While Cheney was eligible for the draft, as he said during his confirmation hearings in 1989, he was not called up because the Selective Service System was taking only older men.

By January 1963, with the US actively advising South Vietnamese forces, Cheney enrolled in Casper Community College and turned 22 that month. At that time, he sought his first student deferment which was granted on March 20, according to records from the Selective Service System. After transferring to the University of Wyoming at Laramie, Cheney sought his second student deferment on July 23, 1963. On August 7, 1964, Congress approved the Gulf of Tonkin resolution, which allowed President Lyndon B. Johnson to use military force in Vietnam. From that point on, American involvement in Vietnam began to escalate rapidly.

After graduating from the University of Wyoming at Laramie in 1963 with a Bachelor's degree in political science, Cheney stayed at the U of W to complete an MA in political science, graduating in 1965.

On August 29, 1964, 22 days after the resolution, Cheney married his high school sweetheart, Lynne. He sought and was granted his third student deferment on October 14, 1964. In May 1965, Cheney graduated from college and his draft status changed to 1-A. Since he was married, however, he had somewhat better protection from being drafted. In July, 1965, Johnson announced that he was doubling the number of men drafted. The number of inductions soared, to 382,010 in 1966 from 230,991 in 1965 and 112,386 in 1964. Cheney obtained his fourth deferment because he started graduate school at the University of Wyoming on November 1, 1965.

On October 6, 1965, the Selective Service lifted its ban against drafting married men who had no children. Nine months and two days later, Cheney's first daughter, Elizabeth, was born. On January 19, 1966, when his wife was about 10 weeks pregnant, Mr. Cheney applied for 3-A status, the "hardship" exemption, which excluded men with children or dependent parents. It was granted. In January 1967, Cheney turned 26 and was no longer eligible for the draft.
But, yes, I know we're still drudging up stereotypes from the Cold War, where all Democrats are treasonous communists.

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Old 07-22-2006, 12:24 PM   #204
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But, yes, I know we're still drudging up stereotypes from the Cold War, where all Democrats are treasonous communists.
Melon
Not all Democrats are treasonous communists; just the ones who do things like supporting the enemy while on enemy soil and lie about our soldiers, thus endangering the lives of our POWs.
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Old 07-22-2006, 12:26 PM   #205
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Originally posted by WildHoneyAlways




let's keep this train wreck of a thread on track please. Start another thread if you want to bad mouth Bill Clinton.
Hey, give me credit, I wasn't just bad mouthing Bill Clinton, I was also bad mouthing someone much worse than Bill Clinton, John Kerry.
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Old 07-22-2006, 01:33 PM   #206
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Old 07-22-2006, 02:45 PM   #207
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Old 07-22-2006, 02:53 PM   #208
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Quote:
Originally posted by randhail


The reason for the comments is that they are comments that I would make to my friends or they would make to me. It's how I felt about the whole situation. If George had gone up to her and punched her, then I think the issue would be worth talking about. If they offended people, then so be it - I won't apologize for that. I'm tired of people biting their tongue because it could "offend" people. Say what's on your mind.
I'm not surprised at all that you would make them to your friends, but you are not merely talking to your friends here.

I'm not surprised at all that you won't apologize

Sorry but you have to bite your tongue here-there are rules and guidelines for how and what you can post, or else it would be an offensive free for all. For example, I could theoretically say what's on my mind about posters like you and some of what they post, but I'd probably be banned for it. Like I said, racial and anti-homosexual jokes would not be acceptable here, so I don't see why sexist jokes are and are allowed to be defined as "saying what's on your mind". But I will take that up privately with a mod.
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Old 07-22-2006, 03:02 PM   #209
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Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen


I'm not surprised at all that you would make them to your friends, but you are not merely talking to your friends here.

I'm not surprised at all that you won't apologize

Sorry but you have to bite your tongue here-there are rules and guidelines for how and what you can post, or else it would be an offensive free for all. For example, I could theoretically say what's on my mind about posters like you and some of what they post, but I'd probably be banned for it. Like I said, racial and anti-homosexual jokes would not be acceptable here, so I don't see why sexist jokes are and are allowed to be defined as "saying what's on your mind". But I will take that up privately with a mod.
How is calling Merkel ugly a sexist joke? The happy ending thing was probably a little much, but I really fail to see how calling anyone ugly is a sexist joke. There are ugly people in the world, it's a fact of life.

If you want say how you feel about me, go for it. I'm a big boy, I can handle it and won't lose any sleep over it.
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Old 07-22-2006, 03:16 PM   #210
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Because it's SEXIST to comment on a woman's looks in a situation such as this, and to say at least he could have picked a good looking/better looking woman. Her looks have NOTHING to do with it, and she is the f'ing CHANCELLOR of Germany. She didn't get to that great job based upon her looks. I'm sure you might judge all women by their looks thus it makes it ok in your book. If you don't get it at this point in your life, I'm not going to attempt to give you a remedial course in sexism. No thanks, I have too much class and restraint to tell you what I think of you based on what you have posted here and elsewhere.

I will deal with it privately, so no need to address it again
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