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Old 03-16-2004, 10:15 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by paxetaurora
This thread needs to produce some meaningful discussion or it will be closed. All I see so far are the usual suspects ganging up on each other.

Dread, maybe you'd like to explain why you posted these articles. You know we don't like people to just post stuff and not say anything about it. It's bad scholarship.

Everyone else: stop fighting. We all know how we feel about certain things. Let's try to have a civil discussion, 'cause my finger is itching right above "close."
I said nothing?

I made a statement to start it off, and I gave three reactions to Martha's quizzing.

Close it...I guess I did not meet the posting standards.
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Old 03-16-2004, 10:18 AM   #17
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Another point would be, where is the outrage against terrorist acts like the ones committed last week. There is a fouth point.
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Old 03-16-2004, 10:27 AM   #18
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Originally posted by Dreadsox
Another point would be, where is the outrage against terrorist acts like the ones committed last week. There is a fouth point.
dreadie, could you explain this ? my english isnt that good
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Old 03-16-2004, 10:35 AM   #19
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Many Muslim governments put out statements condemning the Madrid terrorist attacks, including those of Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and Turkey. There were condemnations in the Turkish press. Ankara's soccer team is going ahead with plans to play a match in Madrid in a show of solidarity. U.S. Muslims were angered by the attack as well. There's a statement on the local Islamic Society's web site. Yeah, there are a few holes out there but there are jerks all over. Of course they are going to be in the newspapers just like the Klan and Dixiecrats and other undesirables in the U.S. are in the newspapers. They make headlines.
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Old 03-16-2004, 10:35 AM   #20
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Fizz,

Sorry I overspoke...you are right...not in entirety...however this does not change the fact that the statements made are pretty counter productive if they wish for peace.


Bonovox,

There are plenty of things published on the web by some of the clerics.

Shaykh Yusuf al-Qaradawi
Shaykh Ahmad Abd-al-Razzaq al-Ruqayhi
Shaykh Jamal Shakir
Shaykh Salih Bin-Muhammad Al Talib



All of the sermons were not just at some local mosque. They were broadcastr on State Sponsored Television. To me this is not picking out some radical out of the many mosques to make a point. Egypt, Yemen, Qatar, Jordan, Syria all broadcast this hate on GOVERNMENT TV.

Some of these governements are allegedly our ally.
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Old 03-16-2004, 10:38 AM   #21
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Originally posted by AcrobatMan


dreadie, could you explain this ? my english isnt that good
I was being told I did not make enough of a point when I posted.

A fourth problem I have is that there appears to be very little outrage on state sponsored television stations towards the acts of terrorsim.

Instead we get on National TV Stations prayers of hatred directed at Israel, The USA, and the "CRUSADERS".
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Old 03-16-2004, 11:11 AM   #22
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Dread, I do understand where you are saying. And it is very disturbing to read the articles, such as you have posted. Also, that these particular religious leaders, did not have an ounce of sympathy for loss of life. But, I truly feel that civilized people, world wide are morning, the lost of innocent lives in Spain, and eleswhere. Including Afghanistan and Iraq. I know I am.
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Old 03-16-2004, 11:33 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox


Bonovox,

There are plenty of things published on the web by some of the clerics.

Shaykh Yusuf al-Qaradawi
Shaykh Ahmad Abd-al-Razzaq al-Ruqayhi
Shaykh Jamal Shakir
Shaykh Salih Bin-Muhammad Al Talib


All of the sermons were not just at some local mosque. They were broadcastr on State Sponsored Television. To me this is not picking out some radical out of the many mosques to make a point. Egypt, Yemen, Qatar, Jordan, Syria all broadcast this hate on GOVERNMENT TV.
Yeah I don't know anything about these clerics, I was just trying to say that personally I don't think most of the preachers here that get televised speak for me, I'd be scared that some may judge my beliefs based on their words. But I don't know...
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Old 03-16-2004, 11:39 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox


I was being told I did not make enough of a point when I posted.

A fourth problem I have is that there appears to be very little outrage on state sponsored television stations towards the acts of terrorsim.

Instead we get on National TV Stations prayers of hatred directed at Israel, The USA, and the "CRUSADERS".
ok
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Old 03-16-2004, 12:00 PM   #25
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Dread.

I've lost count on how many times I've heard Pres. Bush, as well as other Presidents, make comments about God and "our Lord" during official govt speaches (State of the Union, etc).... and here our Govt is supposed to have SEPARATION of church and state.

So... our own leaders are hypocritical, have alterior motives, and do not always have the best interest of the country's values and principles in mind.

Why would you expect anywhere else to be different?
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Old 03-16-2004, 03:31 PM   #26
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Do we have a state sponsored television station broadcasting prayers that call for economic disasters on our enemies?

I just think that we, having the luxury of living in the USA have this naive vision that this a war that will end. Too many countries are telling us they are our friend, Jordan, Egypt, Qatar.......yet they braodcast a religious extremist preaching hate.

There is a difference between the President mentioning God.

I am equally offended by Generals that believe GOD selsected Bush for this Holy war.

I do believe for the other side it is a holy war. I do believe that it will not stop anytime soon. Especially when it is broadcast on a weekly basis on national TV.
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Old 03-18-2004, 12:50 AM   #27
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If the govt run our media (in the open)... perhaps. Instead though, we are subjected to subliminal propagands, lies, and cover-ups.... who knows, maybe being clear and honest about our govts/administration's intentions would be better....

and you're right... this "war" isnt going to end anytime soon...
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Old 03-18-2004, 01:28 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by Elvis
Dread.

I've lost count on how many times I've heard Pres. Bush, as well as other Presidents, make comments about God and "our Lord" during official govt speaches (State of the Union, etc).... and here our Govt is supposed to have SEPARATION of church and state.

So... our own leaders are hypocritical, have alterior motives, and do not always have the best interest of the country's values and principles in mind.

Why would you expect anywhere else to be different?
If look back at the people who wrote the constitution, I think you'll find that they mention God just as much as any President today during official govt speaches. I think you'll also find that religion and God are things this country definitely values.
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Old 03-18-2004, 01:48 AM   #29
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Originally posted by STING2


If look back at the people who wrote the constitution, I think you'll find that they mention God just as much as any President today during official govt speaches. I think you'll also find that religion and God are things this country definitely values.

Times have changed... and those whom wrote the constitution (some), while they believed in God, they were also seeking religious refuge/freedom from elswhere..... in todays context, many people DO NOT believe in God, nor an entity, power, or being named/labeled as God.

Despite the hypocrasy of our founding fathers, that does not give reason to ignore the fact that the intentions were clear: separation of church and state.

I have no problem with the mention of God on our money, etc... it is our heritage, it is tradition... however... in this time, for a president to be assuming that all US citizens believe in "God" is ignorant... and in my opinion religiously motivated.

While a great majority of the population may be religious, this is not a religious nation.
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Old 03-18-2004, 01:49 AM   #30
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p.s. ... .many of the founding fathers were masons.
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