one german's opinion - Page 2 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 03-07-2005, 06:42 PM   #16
ONE
love, blood, life
 
financeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 10,122
Local Time: 06:42 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by MadelynIris


Right, and so is Bush, and Blair, and every other elected official from democratic states that are actively engaging by military means...

Yes, of course, they are all terrorists.
Did I say that? No. But consider it this way - when governments kill 10 year old kids, it's not terrorism right?
__________________

__________________
financeguy is offline  
Old 03-07-2005, 06:43 PM   #17
Refugee
 
MadelynIris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Craggy Island
Posts: 1,504
Local Time: 12:42 PM
Quote:
Did I say that? No. But consider it this way - when governments kill 10 year old kids, it's not terrorism right?
Sure - drunk drivers kill 10 year olds too - terrorists, all of them.
__________________

__________________
MadelynIris is offline  
Old 03-07-2005, 06:44 PM   #18
ONE
love, blood, life
 
financeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 10,122
Local Time: 06:42 PM
Of course the British government is perfect.....Britain never did anything bad....isn't that right "Father Ted"?
__________________
financeguy is offline  
Old 03-07-2005, 06:46 PM   #19
ONE
love, blood, life
 
financeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 10,122
Local Time: 06:42 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by MadelynIris


Sure - drunk drivers kill 10 year olds too - terrorists, all of them.
Drunk drivers? Let's not bring Bush and Dick Cheney into it.

But answer the question - do you consider all actions by governments to be right?
__________________
financeguy is offline  
Old 03-07-2005, 07:46 PM   #20
Refugee
 
MadelynIris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Craggy Island
Posts: 1,504
Local Time: 12:42 PM
Quote:
But answer the question - do you consider all actions by governments to be right?
Of course - all actions by governments are right. LOL! Especially those done by N. Korea, Iran and Cuba.

The Chinese government has always been to known to be 100% correct, 100% of the time.

The US and UK, sad to say, have only been right 99.93% of the time. Take for example, the time they accidently shot down Panam 111 or when the destroyed Europe in WWII. Can't always be right...
__________________
MadelynIris is offline  
Old 03-07-2005, 07:48 PM   #21
ONE
love, blood, life
 
financeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 10,122
Local Time: 06:42 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by MadelynIris


The US and UK, sad to say, have only been right 99.93% of the time. Take for example, the time they accidently shot down Panam 111 or when the destroyed Europe in WWII. Can't always be right...
US and UK right 99.93% of the time - ok now I know you're taking the piss. Slan a chara.
__________________
financeguy is offline  
Old 03-07-2005, 07:48 PM   #22
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,697
Local Time: 11:42 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by MadelynIris

The US and UK, sad to say, have only been right 99.93% of the time.
I'm hoping this is a joke.
__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 03-07-2005, 07:52 PM   #23
Refugee
 
MadelynIris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Craggy Island
Posts: 1,504
Local Time: 12:42 PM
It's a fecking joke phone. Now play the fecking note you feckers.
__________________
MadelynIris is offline  
Old 03-07-2005, 07:54 PM   #24
ONE
love, blood, life
 
financeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 10,122
Local Time: 06:42 PM
I think you're more of a Dougal than a Father Ted....
__________________
financeguy is offline  
Old 03-07-2005, 10:45 PM   #25
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 03:42 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by financeguy


I sincerely hope you are not comparing Yasser Arafat to Bin Laden.....
Yes I am, Yasser Arafat was the best inspiration for terrorists in the modern world. He was a terrorist cunt who built Palestinian nationalism on the blood of innocents and was rewarded for his efforts. The Palestinians being given such special treatment by the UN over other occupied people (such as Tibet, Chechnya and Kurdistan) is a direct result of his terror campaigns. He was able to present words of peace to the international community while at the same time growing generations of Kids up with genocidal loathing of Jews and ensuring that compromise could never occur ~ and with no compromise every cent of money that he stole "for the cause" was excusable.

Bin Laden is a little bit more ambitious in his plans; pan-Islamic states across the world encompassing all the ME and SE Asia, "liberating" Andalusia and using sympathetic Muslim Majorities across the world to achieve a global ummah but the basic game plan is the same. Kill lots of innocent people; play the international community like a fiddle until that murder is considered justified and he has enough sympathisers and eventually have your demands met.

His worldview is not however the worldview of Muslims. I am not saying that all Muslims are evil or subscribe to this type of apocalyptic ideology ~ to suggest somehow that I am deliberately trying to inspire hatred by laying out what I think about Bin Laden and the entire fucked up politcal system of Political Islam (which is a fascist totallitarian system when implemented in many cases especially when in the mold of the Taliban).

Quote:
Originally posted by financeguy



Fascist Islam?

Islamic Terror?

Islamic crocodile?

Monster?

These are EXACTLY the same kind of dehumanising phrases once used to demonise the Jews. I think you should be more careful about the words you use, especially when you are the first to criticize others.
These are terms used in the 1930's to criticise the Nazi's. The ideology of the Islamists is not one of peace and cooperation, it is one of total domination and ruin. I am not going to get uppity about you comparing me describing the threat of a violent political ideology to the Nazi's establishing a hatred of Jews for their total destruction. And one more thing Islamist crocodile (I did not say Islamic Crocodile ~ the fact that you had to misquote me to make your point says a lot) was used in reference to a Winston Churchill quote about appeasers "feeding the crocodile", I was not calling the Muslim world a crocodile. I have maintained that terrorism and radical Islam is a symptom of the broader lack of political freedom and expression in the Muslim world ~ it is not what Islam represents rather it is a very real problem in the Islamic world that can be fixed. I have no problem with Muslims just like I don't have a problem with Christians, Jews, Budhists or Zoroastrians. I do have a very serious problem with those that take exception to human rights and freedom ~ I really hate mysoginists and think that institutionalised persecution is evil. Those that rob people of their individuality rank pretty bloody highly on my don't like list. If you feel that my feelings towards the Bin Ladens or Abu Bakr Bashirs in this world is anti-Muslim then perhaps you should look more closely at what you think Islam represents.

I am describing a political ideology ~ political Islam ~ which as so many insist is a seperate beast from Islam the religion. I consider that the Taliban, Iranian Mullahocracy and Saudi Arabia's Wahhabi ideology are each examples of this totallitarian ideology. It is a political system devised by men that uses divine justification to consolidate power in the hands of a ruling class of theocrats with no accountability. It is no different than fascism or communism, one more totallitarian ideology that is ready to be heaped into the dustbin of history and humanity will be better for it's removal.

So in conclusion, I think that the political ideology of Islamism (a.k.a. Fascist Islam) is a dire threat to the world. I do not think that anybody should attempt to appease such an ideology by granting concessions (such as surrendering Israel or allowing the establishment of Islamist states to go unchallenged). In the long term the only cure for this toxic ideology that only works in the absence of hope is a competing ideology that human beings find attractive ~ liberty and democracy ~ and regardless of how much some people insist to the contrary I have an abiding faith that human beings of all creeds prefer to live their lives freely when given that opportunity. The will of free men and women throughout the history of the world that has proven to be a consistent force for good.

If you wish to remind me of US support for SA or any number of dictators that cause these problems then don't worry it already pisses me off to no end. I think that that is a big problem and obstacle that requires significant influence and power politics to resolve; i.e. how to remove support without opening up a greater problem ~ better the devil you know especially in Saudi Arabia where the alternative to the utterly corrupt Royal Family and totally abhorent religious leaders seems to be a black hole of tribal and religious warfare seeking control of a large chunk of energy resources. So we have to introduce principles to gain a favourable option, and this is what seperates today from the cold war ~ during the Cold War there was another superpower there too influence countries thus neccesitating all those dictators ~ since if it wasn't a pro-West dictator you would find a pro-Soviet one pretty quickly. Today however that threat is gone and the motivation to support dictatorships isn't there ~ freedom ~ liberty and democracy ~ is the cure for the problems we are presented with in this day and age.

Freedom is contagious. Symptoms include spontaneous outbreaks of joy, and the unstifled yearning of the human spirit. It is commonly treated with increasingly large doses of government. Most sufferers eventually need an intensive dose of tyranny.

The best prevention is ignorance.

But in the long run, there is no cure, a free mankind is an inevitablity.
__________________
A_Wanderer is offline  
Old 03-09-2005, 07:01 AM   #26
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
sulawesigirl4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Virginia
Posts: 7,416
Local Time: 12:42 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
He was a terrorist cunt ...
Completely unnappropriate language and very disrespectful to women. Please refrain from it in the future when forming your vitriolic tirades.
__________________
"I can't change the world, but I can change the world in me." - Bono

sulawesigirl4 is offline  
Old 03-09-2005, 10:06 AM   #27
Blue Crack Addict
 
verte76's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: hoping for changes
Posts: 23,331
Local Time: 05:42 PM
It's really tough for me to see the Saudi state taking its Wahhabist structure out of its political context because it's in the nature of a Wahhabist state not to have any state apparatus outside of it. It's supposedly based on the Koran rather than a drafted or precendence-traditional constitution. This is the same philosophy used by the Sunni terrorists against the Iraqi elections, that they were putting people before God. Saudi Arabia is practically the last country in the Middle East that will ever become democratic. There's a better chance in the non-Wahhabi states--fortunately that's every other Muslim country.
__________________

__________________
verte76 is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:42 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com