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Old 09-21-2011, 05:13 PM   #361
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Originally Posted by kramwest1 View Post
Open and timely access to information helps free markets function more effectively
Correct.
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Old 09-21-2011, 05:56 PM   #362
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Major deregulation during the Reagan and Clinton eras was a major factor in the economic collapse that we're riding out over the next couple of years. How is your superfree market working out for everyone, Indie, beyond the super-haves, speculators, and bankers who made off with the cash and left the rest of the taxpayers and business owners holding the bill?
Are you really arguing that phone service was better when AT&T had a regulated monopoly?

Are you really arguing that the public was better informed when radio & TV operated under the Fairness Doctrine?

Deregulation is working fine in the airline industry. Natural gas is one of the few areas that is providing new jobs in this "economic collapse." Others energies are doing well except were government continues to over-regulate (state specific blends of gasoline, EPA stopping refineries, coal and nuclear plants from being built, nonsensical limits on drilling, etc). Or maybe you weren't around for gas lines in the 70's or remember how expensive airline travel used to be.

Works fine in banking when government regulators are doing their job instead of watching porn. When the Fed isn't playing politics with artificially low interest rates. When the government isn't mandating banks into less stringent credit and down-payment requirements.

Or are you arguing that government sponsored Fannie and Freddie was the exemplary example in the nefarious home mortgage market?

And if you think we have a "superfree market" here are all 50 volumes of the Code of Federal Regulations. You can look up the state regulations.

Title 1: General Provisions
Title 2: Grants and Agreements
Title 3: The President
Title 4: Accounts
Title 5: Administrative Personnel
Title 6: Homeland Security
Title 7: Agriculture
Title 8: Aliens and Nationality
Title 9: Animals and Animal Products
Title 10: Energy
Title 11: Federal Elections
Title 12: Banks and Banking
Title 13: Business Credit and Assistance
Title 14: Aeronautics and Space (also known as the Federal Aviation Regulations, administered by the Federal Aviation Administration)
Title 15: Commerce and Foreign Trade
Title 16: Commercial Practices
Title 17: Commodity and Securities Exchanges
Title 18: Conservation of Power and Water Resources
Title 19: Customs Duties
Title 20: Employees' Benefits
Title 21: Food and Drugs (administered by the US Food and Drug Administration and the US Drug Enforcement Administration)
Title 22: Foreign Relations
Title 23: Highways
Title 24: Housing and Urban Development
Title 25: Indians
Title 26: Internal Revenue
Title 27: Alcohol, Tobacco Products and Firearms
Title 28: Judicial Administration
Title 29: Labor
Title 30: Mineral Resources
Title 31: Money and Finance: Treasury
Title 32: National Defense
Title 33: Navigation and Navigable Waters
Title 34: Education
Title 35: Reserved (formerly Panama Canal)
Title 36: Parks, Forests, and Public Property
Title 37: Patents, Trademarks, and Copyrights
Title 38: Pensions, Bonuses, and Veterans' Relief
Title 39: Postal Service
Title 40: Protection of Environment (administered by the United States Environmental Protection Agency)
Title 41: Public Contracts and Property Management
Title 42: Public Health
Title 43: Public Lands: Interior
Title 44: Emergency Management and Assistance
Title 45: Public Welfare
Title 46: Shipping
Title 47: Telecommunication (also known as the "FCC Rules", administered by the Federal Communications Commission)
Title 48: Federal Acquisition Regulations System
Title 49: Transportation
Title 50: Wildlife and Fisheries

Quote:

You can keep trotting out the right-wing line about unregulated free markets as long as you like, because you present it like religious ideology and leave common sense and historic fact far behind in the dust.
This should make you happy; dust is regulated by two federal agencies, EPA and OSHA.
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Old 09-21-2011, 06:50 PM   #363
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Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
Are you really arguing that phone service was better when AT&T had a regulated monopoly?
You'll probably get a few posts from angry AT&T customers who can't get service in the middle of downtown San Francisco

Quote:
Are you really arguing that the public was better informed when radio & TV operated under the Fairness Doctrine?
Yep, but then again I think conservative talk radio and Fox News / MSNBC are all terrible, reducing the political discourse in the country to black and white hatred with no grey areas, and feeding the loyal viewers whatever they think they will want to hear to keep listening/watching. American broadcast media has been on a steady decline since the early 90s. OJ was just the start of the tip towards ridiculousness where we now find ourselves.

Don't even get me started about Clear Channel Communications or essentially monopolies such as Live Nation.

Quote:
Deregulation is working fine in the airline industry. Natural gas is one of the few areas that is providing new jobs in this "economic collapse."
You might want to ask the folks with flammable tap water how all that deregulation is working out for their well-being and property value.

Don't tread on me, indeed!

Quote:
Or are you arguing that government sponsored Fannie and Freddie was the exemplary example in the nefarious home mortgage market?
Greenspan's er, let's say misguided opinion on the American dream "everyone should have houses they own themselves, and a second mortgage!!" is well documented, of course.

Quote:
Title 1: General Provisions
Title 2: Grants and Agreements
Title 3: The President
Title 4: Accounts
Title 5: Administrative Personnel
Title 6: Homeland Security
Title 7: Agriculture
Title 8: Aliens and Nationality
Title 9: Animals and Animal Products
Title 10: Energy
Title 11: Federal Elections
Title 12: Banks and Banking
Title 13: Business Credit and Assistance
Title 14: Aeronautics and Space (also known as the Federal Aviation Regulations, administered by the Federal Aviation Administration)
Title 15: Commerce and Foreign Trade
Title 16: Commercial Practices
Title 17: Commodity and Securities Exchanges
Title 18: Conservation of Power and Water Resources
Title 19: Customs Duties
Title 20: Employees' Benefits
Title 21: Food and Drugs (administered by the US Food and Drug Administration and the US Drug Enforcement Administration)
Title 22: Foreign Relations
Title 23: Highways
Title 24: Housing and Urban Development
Title 25: Indians
Title 26: Internal Revenue
Title 27: Alcohol, Tobacco Products and Firearms
Title 28: Judicial Administration
Title 29: Labor
Title 30: Mineral Resources
Title 31: Money and Finance: Treasury
Title 32: National Defense
Title 33: Navigation and Navigable Waters
Title 34: Education
Title 35: Reserved (formerly Panama Canal)
Title 36: Parks, Forests, and Public Property
Title 37: Patents, Trademarks, and Copyrights
Title 38: Pensions, Bonuses, and Veterans' Relief
Title 39: Postal Service
Title 40: Protection of Environment (administered by the United States Environmental Protection Agency)
Title 41: Public Contracts and Property Management
Title 42: Public Health
Title 43: Public Lands: Interior
Title 44: Emergency Management and Assistance
Title 45: Public Welfare
Title 46: Shipping
Title 47: Telecommunication (also known as the "FCC Rules", administered by the Federal Communications Commission)
Title 48: Federal Acquisition Regulations System
Title 49: Transportation
Title 50: Wildlife and Fisheries
That indeed is quite a lot. So, in your libertarian, deregulated world, should I have to relocate to a state with decent regulatory laws if I don't want a cellular company to build a cell tower 100ft from my property line / kids' bedrooms?

What do you suggest cutting back on? Should we merge some departments to simplify things? Indians and Parks, Forests, and Public Property, that would work. We could mash-up Public Welfare and Shipping to get some jobs for those lazy urban dwellers.
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Old 09-21-2011, 06:53 PM   #364
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gosh, the world is SO complicated.
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Old 09-21-2011, 07:59 PM   #365
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Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
Natural gas is one of the few areas that is providing new jobs in this "economic collapse." Others energies are doing well except were government continues to over-regulate (state specific blends of gasoline, EPA stopping refineries, coal and nuclear plants from being built, nonsensical limits on drilling, etc). Or maybe you weren't around for gas lines in the 70's or remember how expensive airline travel used to be.
Spoken by someone whose state isn't getting destroyed by the natural gas industry. Our education system and our environment in Pennsylvania are suffering terribly, directly because of natural gas.
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Old 09-21-2011, 09:37 PM   #366
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Spoken by someone whose state isn't getting destroyed by the natural gas industry. Our education system and our environment in Pennsylvania are suffering terribly, directly because of natural gas.
Locals cash in on natural gas boom in Pa. - Washington Times

I can find all kinds of articles about the booming economy in those areas, a rare feat indeed in these times. Naturally there are some pissed off politicians that have yet to figure how they can get their hands on all this money.

And the fears over fracking can only be described as non-science hysteria.
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Old 09-21-2011, 09:57 PM   #367
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Obama United Nations Picture: President Blocks World Leader's Face With Hand (PHOTO)




To be fair, someone had just asked, "Who still believes in Keynesian economics?"
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Old 09-21-2011, 10:02 PM   #368
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cue up

"What a difference a year makes"

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Old 09-21-2011, 11:03 PM   #369
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Obama United Nations Picture: President Blocks World Leader's Face With Hand (PHOTO)




To be fair, someone had just asked, "Who still believes in Keynesian economics?"
The US is being left behind in the economic boom the rest of the globe is experiencing thanks to austerity.
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Old 09-21-2011, 11:33 PM   #370
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Locals cash in on natural gas boom in Pa. - Washington Times

I can find all kinds of articles about the booming economy in those areas, a rare feat indeed in these times. Naturally there are some pissed off politicians that have yet to figure how they can get their hands on all this money.

And the fears over fracking can only be described as non-science hysteria.
I don't even feel like making an effort if you're going to quote the fucking Washington Times. Just take it from someone who lives here and is directly impacted by it everyday.
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Old 09-21-2011, 11:40 PM   #371
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Give a homeless man a dollar, you're a welfare liberal. Make a homeless man dance for a dollar, you're a job creator!
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Old 09-22-2011, 01:12 AM   #372
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ha! ha! articles supporting my opinion. Look, Mum, we're using the in-ter-net,
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Old 09-22-2011, 01:44 AM   #373
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The biggest donor to Tom Corbett? Terry Pegula, natural gas tycoon.
The only natural gas rich state that doesn't tax natural gas companies at all? Pennsylvania.
Biggest cut in PA budget in 2011? Education. $900 million.

If we taxed natural gas, even a little bit, we could afford to put all that money back in education. We could actually get something out of being a state with a big resource. Instead, we have the most expensive state schools in the country in Penn State and Pitt. Instead, we're laying off teachers everywhere, just so the billionaires can line their pockets. How many jobs would really be lost if we taxed them? Barely any. How many people are suffering from not taxing them? Everyone under 23 in the state.
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Old 09-22-2011, 10:18 AM   #374
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The biggest donor to Tom Corbett? Terry Pegula, natural gas tycoon.
The only natural gas rich state that doesn't tax natural gas companies at all? Pennsylvania.
Biggest cut in PA budget in 2011? Education. $900 million.

If we taxed natural gas, even a little bit, we could afford to put all that money back in education. We could actually get something out of being a state with a big resource. Instead, we have the most expensive state schools in the country in Penn State and Pitt. Instead, we're laying off teachers everywhere, just so the billionaires can line their pockets. How many jobs would really be lost if we taxed them? Barely any. How many people are suffering from not taxing them? Everyone under 23 in the state.
I think you can tell how evil an energy company is by how aggressive it's being with it's advertising.
I can't tell you how many times I've seen the bullshit "Fracking is completely safe" ad. It's being run all of the time.
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Old 09-22-2011, 12:55 PM   #375
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we should totally blindly trust the government with killing citizens at home and abroad.

it's when the government taxes rich people that we should get worried.
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