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Old 09-17-2006, 07:52 AM   #106
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Five Palestinian area churches attacked

NABLUS, West Bank - Palestinians wielding guns and firebombs attacked five churches in the West Bank and Gaza on Saturday, following remarks by Pope Benedict XVI that angered many Muslims.

WHOLE ARTICLE: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060916/...ans_churches_5
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Old 09-17-2006, 07:55 AM   #107
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
If this is the case, I ask - have we EVER had world peace?

Your answer relies heavily on your worldview as to what faithfulness really is.

Faithfulness to what...
peace?
a faith?
principles?
unity?
The God factor is what I was referring to, it is something that I disagree with strongly.
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Old 09-17-2006, 07:58 AM   #108
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
The God factor is what I was referring to, it is something that I disagree with strongly.
To ask with the intention of gaining clarity, in your view, if the entire world would submit to one faith wholeheartedly, we would have world peace?

Correct me if I'm wrong. Your perspective tends to be libertarian/anarchistic, which is not easily understood beyond the basic principles of absolute liberty.
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Old 09-17-2006, 08:28 AM   #109
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And what I was alluding to was the ideology that monolithic institutions of faith are the cure to humanity, I am a cosmopolitan and the idea that you can enfore one set of beliefs is one that demands force. I was not making the case for such a system rather plainly stating the meaning of "Islam is the religon of peace", it is supposedly peaceful when there is nobody left to convert, subjegate or kill - and this is not (historically) isolated to Islam.

I think that if the world ever saw a global caliphate there may well be as much peace as there was inside the USSR or Nazi Germany, but that will never happen.
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Old 09-17-2006, 09:31 AM   #110
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
If I had to rename The Bible, I'd call it the Anti-Communist Manifesto.
"As he was setting out on a journey, a man ran up, knelt down before Him, and asked Him, 'Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?' Jesus answered him, 'Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone. You know the commandments: 'You shall not kill; you shall not commit adultery; you shall not steal; you shall not bear false witness; you shall not defraud; honor your father and your mother.'' He replied and said to him, 'Teacher, all of these I have observed from my youth.' Jesus, looking at him, loved him and said to him, 'You are lacking in one thing. Go, sell what you have, and give to (the) poor and you will have treasure in heaven; then come, follow me.' At that statement his face fell, and he went away sad, for he had many possessions." - Mark 10:17-22

No, I think it's better off being called "The Bible."

Melon
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Old 09-17-2006, 09:34 AM   #111
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
Much of this is true, however very few people had access to The Bible translated in their language at the time, so you had to put your faith in what the corrupt religious leaders told you.
All the more ironic, considering that with all our vernacular Bibles, most people still rely on their ministers to tell them what the Bible says. As much as things change, they stay the same.

Melon
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Old 09-17-2006, 09:38 AM   #112
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Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
If this is the case, I ask - have we EVER had world peace?

Your answer relies heavily on your worldview as to what faithfulness really is.
I think he's commenting on the totalitarian aspect of this theology. We tried one Christian religion. It was corrupt and busted apart into Eastern Orthodoxy and Protestantism.

Even if we could get people to all agree on one religion in one point in time, it would eventually become corrupted again and bust apart.

We're better off accepting that the marketplace requires healthy competition even in religion.

Melon
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Old 09-17-2006, 10:29 AM   #113
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I'm getting bored with these 'heads of community' repeatedly asking for apologies. Like why should anyone have to walk on egg shells just in case they upset someone. And why don't they spend more energy outing the scum that live as minorities within their communities.

They need to start looking inwards before complaining about their ills.
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Old 09-17-2006, 10:41 AM   #114
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon


I think he's commenting on the totalitarian aspect of this theology. We tried one Christian religion. It was corrupt and busted apart into Eastern Orthodoxy and Protestantism.

Even if we could get people to all agree on one religion in one point in time, it would eventually become corrupted again and bust apart.

We're better off accepting that the marketplace requires healthy competition even in religion.

Melon
On this, I completely agree. It is essense of freedom and democracy - in my opinion - and it is worth fighting for.
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Old 09-17-2006, 10:44 AM   #115
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Originally posted by adrball
I'm getting bored with these 'heads of community' repeatedly asking for apologies. Like why should anyone have to walk on egg shells just in case they upset someone. And why don't they spend more energy outing the scum that live as minorities within their communities.

They need to start looking inwards before complaining about their ills.
I agree. Where is all the outrage over Muslims slaughtering Muslims Iraq?

Amazing how the Pope's comments cause a furor, but the killing of 100 brother and sister Muslims a day by fellow Muslims doesn't seem to bother the Muslims leaders enough to protest and march.
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Old 09-17-2006, 11:06 AM   #116
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I agree about the outrage over Muslims killing Muslims. How long has this been going on? Ages and ages, it seems. My avatar is a painting I did when those Wahhabist nuts bombed Istanbul three years ago. How long is this going to go on?
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Old 09-17-2006, 11:12 AM   #117
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Just want to say that most of the Muslims that I know socially and at work are decent people. Just in case someone wants to take my comments out of context.
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Old 09-17-2006, 11:22 AM   #118
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The recent remarks made by Pope Benedict XVI on Islam are threatening to ignite the entire Muslim world. Op-Eds published in the Arab newspapers slammed the pope even after the Vatican’s apology. The most extreme opinion was voiced by Hani Pahas in the London-based Arabic-language daily newspaper Al-Hayat, who wrote “the pope’s comments may lead to war; we fear that the pope’s statements may lead to a war that we, Muslims and Christians alike, are trying to prevent through dialogue between East and West.

Hussein Shabakshy wrote in an article published by the London-based Arabic-language newspaper al-Sharq al-Awsat “It is clear that such remarks only contribute to the fueling of the fire raging between Islam and the West. There is no difference between Osama bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahiri speaking from their caves in Tora Bora and the stage of an important Christian saint. Both parties contribute to the world verbal weapons for mass destruction.”

Is that so? Which towers did the Pope bring down, and whom did he behead?

“The pope’s latest statement cannot be considered a slip of the tongue or a comic bit from a TV show; the situation here is different, and his remarks are indicative of an important and highly symbolic stance toward the religion (Islam) and the prophet of about a billion and-a-half Muslims,” he said.

“These are ignorant comments previously made by Adolf Hitler, who spoke of a supreme white race against all the other races, especially the African race.

Of course, the Pope didn't speak of races, or the superiority of anyone, and Islam is not a race.

Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood said a Vatican statement on Saturday saying Pope Benedict was sorry for upsetting Muslims with his comments on Islam did not go far enough.

"We want a personal apology (from the Pope). We feel that he has committed a grave error against us and that this mistake will only be removed through a personal apology," Muslim Brotherhood Deputy Leader Mohammed Habib told Reuters.

The Grand Imam of the Al – Azhar University in Cairo, Sheikh Muhammad Sayyid Tantawi said the pope’s statements stem from complete ignorance regarding all that is related to Islam.

Other religious leaders throughout the Muslim world, including Iran, also slammed the pope.

The spiritual leader of Lebanon's Sunnis, the Grand Mufti Sheik Mohammed Rashid Kabbani, said the pope's remarks emanated either from "Ignorance and lack of knowledge or were deliberately intended to distort Islam."

"Reason is the substance of Islam and its teachings ... Islam prohibited violence in human life. Anyone who wants the truth (about Islam) must take it from Islam's holy book, the Koran, rather than from a dialogue or excerpts," he said.

Why don't all these Islamic clerics who are assuring us yet again that Islam has nothing to do with violence do something to rein in the Muslims who are committing acts of violence out of rage against the Pope?
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Old 09-17-2006, 02:39 PM   #119
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Originally posted by toscano
Why don't all these Islamic clerics who are assuring us yet again that Islam has nothing to do with violence do something to rein in the Muslims who are committing acts of violence out of rage against the Pope? [/B]

I agree.
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Old 09-17-2006, 02:39 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon


"As he was setting out on a journey, a man ran up, knelt down before Him, and asked Him, 'Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?' Jesus answered him, 'Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone. You know the commandments: 'You shall not kill; you shall not commit adultery; you shall not steal; you shall not bear false witness; you shall not defraud; honor your father and your mother.'' He replied and said to him, 'Teacher, all of these I have observed from my youth.' Jesus, looking at him, loved him and said to him, 'You are lacking in one thing. Go, sell what you have, and give to (the) poor and you will have treasure in heaven; then come, follow me.' At that statement his face fell, and he went away sad, for he had many possessions." - Mark 10:17-22

No, I think it's better off being called "The Bible."

Melon
Awesome.
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