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Old 07-07-2008, 07:04 AM   #1
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McCain's Economic Speech - 07-07-2008

Big speech and endorsements today? Thoughts?
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Old 07-07-2008, 07:41 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Dreadsox View Post
Big speech and endorsements today? Thoughts?
Missed it. Any links or articles about it?
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Old 07-07-2008, 10:41 AM   #3
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this was my favorite line:

[q]“The McCain administration would reserve all savings from victory in the Iraq and Afghanistan operations in the fight against Islamic extremists for reducing the deficit. Since all their costs were financed with deficit spending, all their savings must go to deficit reduction.”[/q]
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Old 07-07-2008, 04:42 PM   #4
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What are these "savings from victory"?
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Old 07-07-2008, 04:52 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maycocksean View Post
Missed it. Any links or articles about it?
text of the speech

the campaign's just-released economic policy paper (.pdf) (this is what Irvine was quoting from)

brief article about the speech from The Hill (or check any news aggregator site; there are many articles)
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Old 07-07-2008, 05:06 PM   #6
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“The choice in this election is stark and simple,” McCain said. “Sen. Obama will raise your taxes. I won’t.”
that seem to work in the past?
will it play in 2008?


Quote:
The GOP standard-bearer, however, said his plan would get the economy back on track and balance the budget by promising to make the government “a catalyst for growth and good jobs.” He blamed Congress and the Bush administration for letting federal spending get out of hand.

“This Congress and this administration have failed to meet their responsibilities to manage the government,” he said. “Government has grown by 60 percent in the last eight years. That is simply inexcusable.”

McCain said he would freeze most federal spending and review all government programs to eliminate waste.

Hard to make a case that McCain is Bush's 3rd term
when he openly attacks it.
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Old 07-07-2008, 05:17 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deep View Post

Hard to make a case that McCain is Bush's 3rd term
when he openly attacks it.


but he wants to keep Bush's tax cuts.

hard to see how he's going to balance the budget in his first term.

of course, under his stalwart leadership, he's going to "win" in Iraq and Afghanistan, and so all that wanton spending will come pouring back home and fill our coffers.

so we have a timetable for total withdrawal in Iraq *and* Afghanistan?
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Old 07-07-2008, 05:20 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
but he wants to keep Bush's tax cuts.

hard to see how he's going to balance the budget in his first term.
they expire.


unless congress, extends them.


do you thing the new congress will extend them ?

or perhaps, something for low and middle income tax payers ?
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Old 07-07-2008, 05:24 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deep View Post
they expire.


unless congress, extends them.


do you thing the new congress will extend them ?

or perhaps, something for low and middle income tax payers ?


McCain's position is that he will work to make the tax cuts permanent. this is in direct contradiction to his previous position.

whether or not he will be successful with what is shaping up to be a heavily democratic new congress remains to be seen.
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Old 07-07-2008, 05:31 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
whether or not he will be successful with what is shaping up to be a heavily democratic new congress remains to be seen.
1. they expire (period)

2. remains to be seen ?



what are the odds?

as a percentage, I would put it at less than 2 %
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Old 07-07-2008, 05:39 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deep View Post
what are the odds?

as a percentage, I would put it at less than 2 %



possibly, but heck, with all this new money pouring in from our "wins" in Iraq and Afghanistan, we just might be able to keep the tax cuts!

or, back in reality, we'll realize that deficit spending to fund wars does not result in increased revenue when we stop funding these wars. tell me, Mr. McCain, what's the budget mark down for "victory"? what are the numbers for this? or is this just a lot of empty talk about vague notions of change? going to zero cost in Iraq/Afghanistan/(i assume we'll get the bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, Iran-ing over in a year?) does not actually save us money. when this miracle occurs, all it will do is stop us from spending money we've never had in the first place. we'll simply lose less money.

this is the straight-talk express?
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Old 07-07-2008, 05:40 PM   #12
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You seem to have faith in this Congress. I don't. I think they've all managed to convince themselves that they have to cater to some imaginary center or will get voted out of office so that even numbers don't mean a thing. Not to mention, at least the Republicans hold their people in check.

This economic plan is stupid, but that's like saying that the sun will rise in the East tomorrow. McCain knows nothing about the economy and this isn't his strong suit or something he will run on anyway. There is no such thing as victory "savings" - talk about a totally disingenous way to put things. If you put an end to war spending that is not savings for heaven's sake, it's a reduction in spending.
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Old 07-07-2008, 06:38 PM   #13
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Victory savings...

Quote:
I don't know much about economics.
No shit John.
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Old 07-07-2008, 07:21 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by anitram View Post
You seem to have faith in this Congress. I don't.
I think you were talkin to me.

So yeah, with 56+ maybe even 59 0r 60 Democrats
I am taking a leap of faith

that they will grow a pair

will they be able to scrap up one more testes ?
(we know Hillary has one, I read it on Drudge Report).
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Old 07-07-2008, 07:57 PM   #15
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So you're willing to take a leap of faith with congress but not Obama?
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Old 07-07-2008, 08:48 PM   #16
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Deos anyone know where we are in the research for finding a way to make coal a cleaner energy source?

Is McCain correct that the burden of health care for small businesses could kill them? Does his idea make sense to offer 5,000 a year to those who do not have health care so that small businesses do not get crushed?

Does the first year deduction of new equipment and techology make sense to help American businesses modernize?

What about the research and developmen portion? Does this make sense?
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Old 07-08-2008, 08:18 PM   #17
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Turning to economic platform talk is a great way to shut up partisan pseudo-know-it-alls because the truth is most of us don't understand anywhere near enough about economics to evaluate their likely consequences. (and I include myself in that category)
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Deos anyone know where we are in the research for finding a way to make coal a cleaner energy source?
At least 15 years to commercial viability of clean coal plants, is the figure I've heard. The process is still very expensive, the technology is thus far much more effective at reducing sulfur emissions (good for acid rain) than carbon emissions (not so good for global warming), and even if carbon captures were drastically improved, finding a safe place to store them afterwards remains a major problem.
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Is McCain correct that the burden of health care for small businesses could kill them? Does his idea make sense to offer 5,000 a year to those who do not have health care so that small businesses do not get crushed?
$2500 per year for individuals and $5000 for families, in the form of a refundable tax credit (better have enough to get you through the year first!)--which grows at the rate of inflation, not the more-than-triple-that rate of healthcare. Well, yes, I have to imagine this would be attractive to many small business owners, because probably many younger, healthier, middle-income workers would opt for outside coverage in that case. That would drive up premiums for those who still need employer-provided insurance, though.
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Does the first year deduction of new equipment and techology make sense to help American businesses modernize?
From the businesses' POV, I'd certainly think so, but I wonder whether the government can afford an immediate-full-cost-deduction policy.
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What about the research and developmen portion? Does this make sense?
Yes, although there's nothing unique about this one; it's basically just a renewal of what already exists, and was/is part of pretty much every candidate's platform.




From the campaign's new economic policy paper, which I linked to earlier:
[q]John McCain will balance the budget by the end of his first term.[/q]
Unless we experience economic growth on a scale we haven't seen in decades, which seems most unlikely, I can't imagine how this is supposed to happen.
[q]In the long-term, the only way to keep the budget balanced is successful reform of the large spending pressures in Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid.[/q]
OK, but other than the predictable "zero tolerance for fraud," nothing is said about what said "reforms" might look like.
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Old 07-08-2008, 08:37 PM   #18
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and for comparison's sake...


Obama's economic policy speech, also from yesterday

his new economic policy paper (.pdf) I *think* this was released yesterday too; it's shorter than his full economic platform (.pdf).

an article from the LA Times about Obama's economic platform, which unsurprisingly levels the same basic criticism being leveled at McCain's--we simply can't afford this, and most of it will wind up getting Swiss-cheesed in Congress for sure.
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Old 07-08-2008, 08:41 PM   #19
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Thanks for posting that.
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Old 07-08-2008, 08:56 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreadsox View Post
Deos anyone know where we are in the research for finding a way to make coal a cleaner energy source?

Is McCain correct that the burden of health care for small businesses could kill them? Does his idea make sense to offer 5,000 a year to those who do not have health care so that small businesses do not get crushed?

Does the first year deduction of new equipment and techology make sense to help American businesses modernize?

What about the research and developmen portion? Does this make sense?
I was at a green energy conference at the start of the year and apparently not very far, although geosequestration (pumping CO2 emissions from power plants into permeable rocks locking them away for the forseeable future) has the advantage that the means of energy production already exist, there is still a lot of the resource left and there is a big industry with vested interests in avoiding governmental restrictions.

I think that in terms of bang for buck with large scale energy production coal is one of the safer bets.
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