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Old 02-23-2007, 12:30 AM   #1
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Iraq - 10 More Years?

Here is a Newsweek article describing the new U.S. strategy. I'm guessing it is 3 years too late - but it may be worth a shot.

Unless someone sees another valid option.

US: In it for the Long Haul?
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Old 02-23-2007, 05:12 PM   #2
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"If George Bush doesn't end this war, then when I am president, I will." - Hillary Clinton
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Old 02-23-2007, 05:14 PM   #3
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I don't have another option. I too am very worried about what kind of state might emerge from the shakedown if we pulled back (not that militarily reasserting 'order,' if successful, would necessarily yield a stable state either) and what kinds of regional manipulation it might be subject to (not that I don't often find some of the rhetoric about Shiite mega-states overblown and unlikely). However, if it's true that the Bush Administration originally envisioned this as in some sense a jumping-off point for possible future campaigns in the region...it's a long way to go before it'd be likely to provide solid ground for something like that (not that it necessarily should). And those are just basic strategic concerns--human costs aside.

10 years is a long time.
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Old 02-23-2007, 05:18 PM   #4
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Why would you want to fight in this war?

Is this what a US soldier signed up for? Wars built on false pretences, wars meant to stifle or minimize civil strife halfway around the world which doesn't actually affect your own security at home (no matter what Dick Cheney wants you to believe)?

I wouldn't want my children dying in this war.
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Old 02-23-2007, 05:55 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
Why would you want to fight in this war?

Is this what a US soldier signed up for? Wars built on false pretences, wars meant to stifle or minimize civil strife halfway around the world which doesn't actually affect your own security at home (no matter what Dick Cheney wants you to believe)?

I wouldn't want my children dying in this war.



and it's amazing how those who profess such love for the military don't seem terribly concerned with the situation these soldiers are currently facing, and the massive bait-and-switch the administration has pulled on them, treating them as political cannon fodder.
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Old 02-23-2007, 06:06 PM   #6
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If George Bush doesn't end this war
Well if "ending the war" equates to pulling all of our troops immediately, then yeah, that solution would be fine as long as the sunnis and shiites kept this sort of steady, small scale civil war. I'd say, let a leader emerge from within that civil war.

But the problem is the Saudi's backing the Sunnis and the Iranians backing the Shiites. Wouldn't be long before either side is staking a big old claim. Then do we go back in to defend Iraq's sovereign rights?

Another twist. We took the fight to the middle east. If we pull our troups, who will Al Quaeda attack? Sure other embassies, but will that basically give them enough opportunity to regroup for the big one?

Does it matter?

I don't set policy, I follow it. I'm completely neutral to the subject. Regardless, we have to have a long-term strategy to deal with this problem. They will not stop. They have a 100 year plan to topple the US.
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Old 02-23-2007, 06:12 PM   #7
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Why would you want to fight in this war?
Why would you want to fight in any war? Usually it's to protect your country/family, etc...

One could say that by establishing democracy in Iraq and Afganistan, we have make our country safer.

One could also argue that the cost might be to high to do so, and we'd have a better return on investment of detecting, identifying, tracking, and killing targets of the highest threat. That still costs a lot of money and the intelligence infrastructure to conduct these operations is huge.

But that philosophy allows for this activity to breed, while do our best to defend.

The current philosophy is to scorch the earth and plant new seeds and wait for them to grow.

Either way has risks, either way is very expensive. Either way, we are destined for a fight.

Not our choice, but theirs.
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Old 02-23-2007, 07:20 PM   #8
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Not to mention what the families of these poor soldiers are going through even at 4 yrs out, esp the National Guard. They shouldn't even be OVER there, for God's sake. Are they supposed to be largely a "domestic" force? How many tours of very hazardous duty are they going to be asked to complete? How will the army meet its recruitment quotas in 5 yrs let alone ten? (another brilliant reason for the Roberts/Alito Supreme Curt to do away with Affirmative action this spring, folks...) I just read somewhere that in some states prison terms are being commuted for some offenders--they are being given a "miltary" option. Is this our "volunteer" army?

How long can this go on? Every back-bending measure currently being taken to avoid the "d" word can't be taken forever. I don't care what anybody says, if you want to aovid the first-ever cases of mass mutiny in the active rank and file, you are going to have to have a draft. Every other major American conflict has had one. The sick thing is, the draft-dodging career criminals who started this shindig will not have to make any of the really tough miltary consitions. Like Pilate, they will wash their hands of it all. I believe future Presidnets, whatever their party, will soundly curse Bush and co. in the bosoms of their families.
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Old 02-23-2007, 07:52 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by MadelynIris


Why would you want to fight in any war? Usually it's to protect your country/family, etc...

One could say that by establishing democracy in Iraq and Afganistan, we have make our country safer.
Do you think if there was a draft tomorrow, people would go? To protect their country and families? Or would they revolt?

In wartime, military recruitment is easy. I know, I lived in a country where basically overnight, there was a draft. That was when your home was getting blown up and your women were getting raped. But do you honestly believe that American citizens believe Iraq is vital to their safety and security? If that were the case, why aren't large numbers joining up?

If there was a draft tomorrow, Bush would be out of office in a week and the lineup at the Detroit-Windsor crossing would be 3 days long. Guaranteed.
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Old 02-23-2007, 07:57 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by MadelynIris


Not our choice, but theirs.
Who is "they" and how did they force our hand?
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Old 02-23-2007, 08:43 PM   #11
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Who is "they" and how did they force our hand?
BVS,

Of course, I'm not talking about Saddam or Iraq. I'm talking about Al Queda and all with the same philosophies. No tie, of course, other than geography.

Taking the fight to their geographic region, is one of the only few good things that has come of Iraq. Its' a short drive to the fight, and we have the benefit of them fighting trained soldiers, with modern weoponry.


Anitram, I completely agree. There isn't enough for the average american to stand behind this fight, especially up to a draft.

But, for a fleeting moment, when we did experience an attack on our homeland, we did lash out. We just didn't have an army to fight. So, basically we dropped in and set up a bug zapper, where we drew them to us.

Does a bug zapper ever kill all of the bugs? Does a bug zapper ever win?

No.

It just keeps zapping bugs as long as it's plugged in.
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Old 02-23-2007, 09:46 PM   #12
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What about transforming it into a more mercenary enterprise; smaller and more ruthless targeted killings by those paid by the state rather than the clumsy hand of government power.
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Old 02-23-2007, 09:58 PM   #13
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A_Wanderer,

I think I know what you're getting at, but I don't understand the statement "by those paid by the state rather than the clumsy hand of government power".

state=government, right?
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Old 02-23-2007, 11:22 PM   #14
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I mean that empowering the government to fight terrorism has meant secret prisons, torture and infighting within and between government departments (visibly found through leaks by those with competing agendas). Some of that could be avoided through outsourcing.
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Old 02-23-2007, 11:35 PM   #15
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As currently drafted, the Democratic legislation says the military "shall commence phased redeployment of U.S. forces from Iraq not later than 120 days" after the bill's enactment. The goal is to complete the withdrawal by March 31, 2008.
Hopefully it will be only 10 more months instead of 10 years that the US occupies Iraq.
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