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Old 06-01-2005, 04:24 PM   #166
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Originally posted by pax
I'm still waiting for someone to prove that Amnesty is exaggerating or lying.
Actually, the burden is on AI to substantiate a "gulag" claim.

I believe that some have already posted the dissimilarities.
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Old 06-01-2005, 04:30 PM   #167
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While I agree with what AI stands for and respect what they do, it is an exaggeration to say Guantanamo is the American gulag. The atrocities committed by the former Soviet Union are far worse than anything the U.S. has done the last few years with its prisoners.

Having said that, the U.S. has not handled things very well in certain aspects of holding prisoners, and I believe that our leaders directly involved in those situations are to blame.
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Old 06-01-2005, 05:13 PM   #168
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Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars


Honey, don´t dare trying to badmouth me.

I wasn´t saying or infering you are 5 y.o.
I asked: Or do I have to explain it to you like to a 5 y.o.?

I didn´t say you are mentally insane . I asked you because it is one of many possiblities, I pointed out a few possible reasons, including that this is a mantra you repeat. Go tell me a few more possibilities. I asked for a reason.

I also didn´t say "you are stupid". Indeed, the contrary is true: I told you I think you use quite a simple argumentation technique: repeat until it stucks in the reader´s mind. Quote: STING2, on a personal note I can´t believe you are too stupid to understand that. I think you want to..."

The Nixon one was an actual joke regarding the Deep Throat events. If you fail to understand it, that´s not my problem. But if I can´t talk to you like as if we were drinking a few beers in a bar - and believe me, in live discussions I can be just as provocative as here - then it´s just better if we don´t talk to each other at all.
I strongly suggest you read the Faq/Rules of the forum and what it says about making such personal remarks and then you can explain to the Mods how such remarks are consistent with the rules of the forum. Any personal remarks made in here are supposed to be strictly respectfull. Angella Harlem, a former Mod, has already alluded to the fact that your remarks were not in keeping with the Faq/rules of the forum.
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Old 06-01-2005, 05:42 PM   #169
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Originally posted by Bono's shades


Hmmmm...Could it be an attempt to divert attention from the fact that a respected human rights organization is lambasting their beloved Bush administration's actions?

Nah, it couldn't be.
Right that has always been the tactic of sting, nbc, wanderer or myself.
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Old 06-01-2005, 05:43 PM   #170
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Quote:
Originally posted by phanan
While I agree with what AI stands for and respect what they do, it is an exaggeration to say Guantanamo is the American gulag. The atrocities committed by the former Soviet Union are far worse than anything the U.S. has done the last few years with its prisoners.

Having said that, the U.S. has not handled things very well in certain aspects of holding prisoners, and I believe that our leaders directly involved in those situations are to blame.
One of the most intelligent posts I have seen in recent days.
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Old 06-02-2005, 03:23 AM   #171
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I´m not replying to people on my ignore list. Just for the record, I have friendly and very respectful contact with some of the Moderators here. Apparently those who have attacked me in the last two days and try to malign and slander my motives will have to find another member they can hassle.
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Old 06-02-2005, 03:33 AM   #172
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As to return to the topic:

"Guantanamo has become the gulag of our time," Amnesty Secretary General Irene Khan said.

Khan has the right to use expressions that will grant the cause as much publicity as possible. It doesn´t reduce the importance of the cause. AI is used to bad press by oversensitive American conservatives (only oversensitive when it´s about their pimples, not when it´s about attacking and bombing the hell out of other countries), so I guess they can handle that.

To replace the cry for justice, trials and human rights with a contra-cry for less effective AI publicity is immoral. The discussion whether Guantanamo or a Soviet Gulag is worse, is complete and utter nonsense.

Better be happy that noone said "the concentration camp of our time".
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Old 06-02-2005, 05:13 AM   #173
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Quote:
Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars
AI is used to bad press by oversensitive American conservatives (only oversensitive when it´s about their pimples, not when it´s about attacking and bombing the hell out of other countries), so I guess they can handle that.

To replace the cry for justice, trials and human rights with a contra-cry for less effective AI publicity is immoral. The discussion whether Guantanamo or a Soviet Gulag is worse, is complete and utter nonsense.

Better be happy that noone said "the concentration camp of our time".
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Old 06-02-2005, 05:19 AM   #174
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I do not think that Amnesty International deliberately goes after the US, it is on the whole one of the most balanced organisations out there. I do however think that the media is not nearly as balanced, statements like 'gulag of our time' are taken up without context and sound plain dumb.
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Old 06-02-2005, 07:04 AM   #175
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Quote:
Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars
As to return to the topic:

"Guantanamo has become the gulag of our time," Amnesty Secretary General Irene Khan said.

Khan has the right to use expressions that will grant the cause as much publicity as possible. It doesn´t reduce the importance of the cause. AI is used to bad press by oversensitive American conservatives (only oversensitive when it´s about their pimples, not when it´s about attacking and bombing the hell out of other countries), so I guess they can handle that.

To replace the cry for justice, trials and human rights with a contra-cry for less effective AI publicity is immoral. The discussion whether Guantanamo or a Soviet Gulag is worse, is complete and utter nonsense.

Better be happy that noone said "the concentration camp of our time".
Oh, I agree. I just dislike how everyone, no matter what the organisation or political affiliation, uses exaggerated statements to gain that publicity. I hate it when Republicans do it, I hate it when Democrats do it, and I hate it when everyone else does it. I understand why they do it, but to me the truth works much better, even if it doesn't get the same amount of publicity.
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Old 06-02-2005, 07:26 AM   #176
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Originally posted by pax


Up Up Up AI's ASS.

If AI believes that they deserve their day in court I support that. I believe I have continuously said throughout the past four years, AI is wrong in trying to classify the prisoners at Guantanamo as POW.

They are not POW's. They are members of a terrorist organization. Our judicial system, while slow, will move on this situation and come to a conclusion of the status of these people. I have faith that this will happen.

I also believe that if there are abuses at GITMO, the court system will sort it out. If AI decides that the words of people coming out of AG, people who were suspected terrorists, belonging to an organization that has commited an act of war on my country, so be it. And trained to cause damage to the reputation of the US, AI chooses to take their word for it.

Calling it a GULAG is junk. Totally JUNK. It is inflammatory and innacurate. Designed to cause political pressure, and trouble when the press just weeks earlier put out a FALSE story.

Just as the people involved in AG, who did abuse prisoners, are being prosecuted, so will the people at GITMO if there is ANY truth to it.
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Old 06-02-2005, 07:27 AM   #177
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Originally posted by phanan


Oh, I agree. I just dislike how everyone, no matter what the organisation or political affiliation, uses exaggerated statements to gain that publicity. I hate it when Republicans do it, I hate it when Democrats do it, and I hate it when everyone else does it. I understand why they do it, but to me the truth works much better, even if it doesn't get the same amount of publicity.
And again, a voice of reason.
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Old 06-02-2005, 07:32 AM   #178
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox

Just as the people involved in AG, who did abuse prisoners, are being prosecuted, so will the people at GITMO if there is ANY truth to it.
Any truth or any proof? I'm not trying to stir, but do you think those at AG would have faced any prosecution if those photos weren't on the front page of every newspaper in the world?
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Old 06-02-2005, 07:33 AM   #179
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Okay, Dreadsox, just in case you didn't know. "Up up up AI's ass" really is totally not appropriate. You're entitled to feel any way you like about AI's statements, but you know you wouldn't take it well if someone said something similar about an institution with which you actually agree.

So cool it, please.
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Old 06-02-2005, 07:36 AM   #180
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Originally posted by pax
Okay, Dreadsox, just in case you didn't know. "Up up up AI's ass" really is totally not appropriate. You're entitled to feel any way you like about AI's statements, but you know you wouldn't take it well if someone said something similar about an institution with which you actually agree.

So cool it, please.
Point taken...

That was cooled down from my original post, probably a good thing I deleted it..

Guess I am still steamed beyond belief about things that have been said in here and in other threads.
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