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Old 01-11-2006, 08:22 PM   #121
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Excellent post, Imj.

Yeah, you're right, AOD, GST is a voter friendly promise. I agree that both parties are guilty of sucking up to corporations, well, that's what politics is all about, kings and peasants. We have only advanced a tiny bit socially but the moat is still there.
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Old 01-12-2006, 01:24 AM   #122
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I would dare to anyone who says teachers get paid too much to see if they would like to switch to an hourly pay scale with either time and a half or double time overtime, then see how high their wages go up!

IMJ post of the thread!
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Old 01-12-2006, 08:49 PM   #123
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Very interesting how Mario Dumont is urging Quebeckers to vote for the Conservatives, and not the Bloc
http://www.cbc.ca/story/canadavotes2...mont-bloc.html
I thought he led a separatist party, non? I know his party is right of centre so I can understand supporting an ideologically-minded party but if they're separatist, it makes no sense to me. Unless of course he's politically motivated in which case it makes a lot of sense...
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Old 01-12-2006, 09:32 PM   #124
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Quote:
Originally posted by ladywithspinninghead
Very interesting how Mario Dumont is urging Quebeckers to vote for the Conservatives, and not the Bloc
http://www.cbc.ca/story/canadavotes2...mont-bloc.html
I thought he led a separatist party, non? I know his party is right of centre so I can understand supporting an ideologically-minded party but if they're separatist, it makes no sense to me. Unless of course he's politically motivated in which case it makes a lot of sense...
Maybe I'm way off the mark but I think Harper-type Conservatives will piss off Quebers even more than the Libs so I can totally see Dumont wanting to set the stage for a referendum with a party in power that doesn't understand or cater to Quebec.
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Old 01-12-2006, 11:16 PM   #125
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I think you're giving him waaay too much credit

It's a possibility but that's very strategic!

I did my research - Dumont used to be a Liberal but turned separatist after the failure of the Charlottetown accord. A lot of soft separatists would be willing to stay in Canada if Quebec increased its share of federal powers and a Conservative government, with their platform on decentralization, would more than likely grant them their wish.

It runs counter to everything Trudeau ever wanted for this country but then again,his vision never really did resonate with most Quebeckers.
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Old 01-13-2006, 01:45 AM   #126
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holy shit.

if there was ANY question as to how messed up harper is, check this out:

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Politics...391321-cp.html

Harper rejects Kyoto, native deal
By MARTIN O’HANLON




Conservative Party Leader Stephen Harper in Halifax. (CP PHOTO/Tom Hanson)

OTTAWA (CP) - Conservative Leader Stephen Harper is saying "No" to Kyoto, "Maybe" to missile defence, and "Sort of" to aboriginals.

And that has Liberals shouting: "We told you so." Harper signalled Thursday that he would turn his back on the Kyoto climate-change accord and renegotiate a recent $5-billion federal-provincial deal with natives. And he left the door open to joining the controversial U.S. missile defence system, while promising to hold a free vote in Parliament before signing on.

The Liberals, who have been painting Harper as a pro-American, right-wing extremist, jumped on his statements.

Environment Minister Stephane Dion said abandoning Kyoto would be a "tragedy" that would undermine the global effort to curb climate change.

"We will send a signal to the forces of progress that Canada is not with them anymore, we are with the resistance," he said.

Indian Affairs Minister Andy Scott said Harper's election would mean a step backward for aboriginals and destroy 18 months of work.

Harper, speaking in Halifax, said he'd abandon Kyoto because its emission-reduction targets can't be met and he'd set Canadian-made targets instead.


He said he supports the principles of the November native agreement, which included big-money pledges for housing, education and health care. And he said he will honour a $2-billion compensation plan for decades of abuse in residential schools.

"But in terms of details and budgets, we're going to want to develop our own plans in consultation with the provinces and with native organizations."

On missile defence, Harper told Radio Canada that he would wait for a formal, written offer from the Americans before deciding whether Canada should participate.

"If the Americans propose such an arrangement, and if we come to the conclusion that it's in the country's best interests, it's my intention to turn this treaty over to Parliament for a free vote," he said.

Earlier Thursday, Harper moved to staunch a controversy involving a Conservative candidate in B.C.

Derek Zeisman has been charged with trying to smuggle a car and 112 containers of alcohol into Canada - not exactly the kind of news the leader of a law-order party wit a big lead in the polls likes to hear.

Harper announced that Zeisman will not be allowed to sit as a Conservative MP if elected. But he added that it's "too late in the campaign legally for me to withdraw the candidate or change the candidate."

Harper said the party didn't know of the charges until this week, but Zeisman insisted in a newspaper interview that officials did know.

NDP Leader Jack Layton, who is campaigning as the defender of public health care, was facing a controversy of his own after it was revealed to The Canadian Press that he had surgery in the mid-1990s at a private clinic.

Layton said he wasn't aware the Shouldice Hospital north of Toronto was private when he went for his hernia surgery, and he emphasized that the treatment was covered by the public health system.

"It's just part of the system," he said in Port Hardy, B.C. "The doctor says, 'Go there.' You pay with your (Ontario health) card. It never occurred to me (to be) anything other than medicare, which it is."

He stressed that the Shouldice clinic is a not-for-profit facility that was grandfathered into the Ontario medical system when medicare began.

The controversies provided a bit of breathing room for Prime Minister Paul Martin, who has been under fire over a now-infamous attack ad that slams Harper for wanting to station troops in cities.

The ad outraged some military personnel who felt it suggested they would be a threat to democracy.

Martin said the ad wasn't aimed at soldiers.

"I support our military," he said. "I've probably put more money into the military than almost any prime minister . . . (The ads have) nothing to do with soldiers."

Liberal MP Keith Martin, who represents a B.C. riding that includes CFB Esquimalt, went further. He apologized to Canadians and blamed the ad on an "idiot" who released it by mistake.

Still, the Liberals appeared undaunted by the criticism over the ad and stepped up their efforts to characterize Harper as an extremist.

They sent out a news release Thursday saying Harper spoke last March in Richmond, B.C., at a fundraising dinner for a far-right group that speaks out against gay marriage and abortion.

The party also said the Canadian Alliance for Social Justice and Family Values Association published a caricature on the cover of its July/August issue which portrayed Paul Martin as a Nazi receiving an award from Adolf Hitler for "the destruction of Canada's foundational institution (family)."

There was actually a bit of policy among the politics Thursday.

-Harper announced that a Conservative government would spend $200 million on "experimental" tax incentives to encourage builders to create more affordable housing.

-Martin was in the Toronto suburb of Markham promising to invest $180 million to create four institutes in different fields of study to bring together companies and university researchers to spur innovation.

-Layton pressed on with his message that he would create 40,000 more long-term care spaces for seniors, spend $1 billion a year to improve home-care services, and set up a national prescription drug insurance plan.

--------

WILL CANADA PLEASE WAKE UP NOW!??!!? WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH US?!?!!? HOW CAN WE MAKE SUCH A DRASTIC MISTAKE?!?!
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Old 01-13-2006, 02:20 AM   #127
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I know zoo just posted an article but this one is worth the read, not like zoo's isnt

This is something I never thought of and actually makes pretty good sense, maybe the liberals could pick up on this as it is legitamate and really makes a good case.

On experience, Harper comes up short
National Post
Thursday, January 12, 2006
Page: A18
Section: Editorials
Byline: Andrew Cohen
Source: Ottawa Citizen

It's time to think of Stephen Harper as prime minister of Canada. It's
time to ask what he has done in life outside and inside politics as he
asks to lead one of the world's biggest, richest and most complex
countries.

On the face of it, he has done little. Mr. Harper would take office with
the thinnest mix of political, professional and managerial experience of
any prime minister since Joe Clark. Looking back farther, it is hard to
find a prime minister of either party elected in the last century as
inexperienced as Mr. Harper.

What is experience? Call it a training in the professions, such as law
or medicine; a career as a soldier, entrepreneur, manager or innovator;
a background in labour, philanthropy or advocacy as a builder or
administrator; a body of work as a scholar, writer or journalist. In
measuring experience, consider someone who has travelled widely, created
something or overcome adversity. By all these measures, Mr. Harper comes
up short.

Mr. Harper is a professional politician. He became leader of the
Canadian Alliance in 2002, orchestrated the party's merger with the
Progressive Conservatives in 2003 and became leader of the Conservatives
in 2004. He did all this with agility and acumen, which he is bringing
to his election campaign.

The trouble is that even here, as a politician, Mr. Harper is not a
seasoned veteran. His political experience over his 46 years is not long
or broad enough to qualify as preparation for the leadership of a G-8
country.

Mr. Harper was elected to Parliament in 1993. He resigned in 1997 and
returned in 2003. All told, he has held office for about seven years,
less than four of them as leader. He has never served in any Cabinet.

The brevity of his time in office -- about the same length as Mr.
Clark's when he became prime minister -- wouldn't matter so much if Mr.
Harper had a varied, interesting or substantial career before elective
politics. He didn't.

Mr. Harper comes from a middle class family in Toronto; he didn't have
to struggle. He earned a Master's in economics from the University of
Calgary. Later he became a lecturer and commentator.

His real work was as a party apparatchik, toiling in the vineyards of
conservatism. He was one of the founders of the Reform Party, and for
years was an assistant and speech-writer on Parliament Hill. He was
known as a policy wonk, but there is no book or idea of note associated
with him.

His most prominent job outside politics was running the National
Citizens Coalition, a conservative lobby. He was president from 1998 to
2002. It reportedly has a membership of 40,000, an annual budget of
$2.8-million and a small staff. It isn't General Motors.

Now, compare Mr. Harper's credentials to prime ministers of the last
century. Paul Martin was a lawyer, an industrialist and finance
minister. Jean Chretien was one of 19 children in a working class
family, became a lawyer and held every major position in Cabinet.

Brian Mulroney also came from humble beginnings; he practised law and
ran the Iron Ore Company of Canada. Pierre Trudeau was a lawyer,
professor and reformist justice minister. Lester Pearson was a
professor, diplomat, foreign minister and Nobel Laureate.

John Diefenbaker was a self-made criminal lawyer. Louis St. Laurent was
a lawyer, professor and senior minister. Mackenzie King was an author,
labour conciliator and civil servant. Richard Bennett was a teacher,
lawyer, businessman and minister.

Robert Borden was a lawyer and teacher. Arthur Meighen was a teacher,
lawyer and minister. Wilfrid Laurier was a journalist and lawyer.

Does this record of professional and political experience matter?
Absolutely. Joe Clark stumbled badly during his nine-month interregnum.
George W. Bush (who had the thinnest resume of any president in memory)
is in trouble in Iraq because he didn't ask the right questions.

Experience matters here and now because Mr. Harper would lead a
government with only a few ministers who have served in provincial
Cabinets and none who have served in Ottawa. That hasn't happened in
memory, if ever.

No, experience doesn't guarantee success. In the past, however,
Canadians have demanded it of their leaders, as they have demanded
personal achievement or a compelling story or sense of excellence.

Stephen Harper offers many things, including intelligence, principle and
ideology. He does not offer experience.
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Old 01-13-2006, 02:26 AM   #128
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interesting, odd though coming from the post. right wing trash...usually.

nice perspective.

though to be fair, sometimes it's good to have fresh blood thrown in the mix.

read my article again though, people.

pass this to everyone.

MISSILE DEFENSE.
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Old 01-13-2006, 02:53 AM   #129
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The inexperience just means they will be corrupted much more easily than the veterans who are more adept at hiding their tracks.

Like I said before, welcome to the new North America, home of Dumb and Dumber.
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Old 01-13-2006, 09:08 AM   #130
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if you really want to read something interesting about Harper and his ideological development, check out a piece the Globe ran about the Calgary school of conservatism awhile back.

For a time it seems, the University of Calgary was quite the conservative machine - according to the article, that is really when Harper went from economist to politician/politically active person.

I think it ran during the summer.
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Old 01-13-2006, 09:28 AM   #131
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Quote:
Originally posted by ladywithspinninghead
A lot of soft separatists would be willing to stay in Canada if Quebec increased its share of federal powers and a Conservative government, with their platform on decentralization, would more than likely grant them their wish.
That's true since soft separatists aren't separatists at all...they just use the threat as leverage...which all provinces (especially Alberta) would do if they had something as convenient as a different language to use to distinguish themselves lol.
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Old 01-13-2006, 09:42 AM   #132
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zoomerang96
interesting, odd though coming from the post. right wing trash...usually.

nice perspective.

though to be fair, sometimes it's good to have fresh blood thrown in the mix.

read my article again though, people.

pass this to everyone.

MISSILE DEFENSE.
Why didn`t the media even pick up on these issues on last night`s broadcast? All I saw was more reporting on that BC Conservative candidate and the Liberal attack ads.

The Canadian media is really doing us a disservice.

And, I too am shocked the National Post would run that piece - I`m pretty sure that writer is usually quite a right-leaning author.
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Old 01-13-2006, 12:13 PM   #133
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Perhaps the tide is beginning to turn in favour of the Liberals? They need to adopt the strategies of the US GOPS - take some of Harper's idiotic rantings, and turn them into soundbytes, deluging the media with them. Oh, to be a campaign PR person right now.

While out yesterday, I noted that in my city, Liberal lawn signs outnumber Conservative signs about 20-1. I expect our Liberal incumbent to win here quite easily.
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Old 01-13-2006, 12:56 PM   #134
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Quote:
Originally posted by VintagePunk
Perhaps the tide is beginning to turn in favour of the Liberals? They need to adopt the strategies of the US GOPS - take some of Harper's idiotic rantings, and turn them into soundbytes, deluging the media with them. Oh, to be a campaign PR person right now.

While out yesterday, I noted that in my city, Liberal lawn signs outnumber Conservative signs about 20-1. I expect our Liberal incumbent to win here quite easily.
That`s a good point - another strategy that worked in the Republican`s favour was harping on about John Edwards' (Kerry`s running mate) lack of experience in the political arena. It might be to the Liberals advantage to play this card, as per the National Post article.
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Old 01-13-2006, 01:53 PM   #135
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As per recent posts, I agree that the Liberals have run a poor campaign.

And another tax break for capital gains if you reinvest the money within 6 months, thank God, I am so fed up with being taxed on my capital gains. I don't know too many people getting capital gains on investments, well, a few well off friends.

How about a gas tax reduction, or allowing a partial deduction of mortgage payments, nah, that would be too substantial and help EVERY person as opposed these little shitty tax reduction promises.

At the end of the day, we will still have unfulfilled promises. If I was a politician, I would legislate politicians are legally bound to any promises. Maybe that would stop all the bullshit being spread around, and they might think about what they say more carefully.
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