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Old 02-03-2005, 04:11 AM   #31
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Do you look at guys as "hot" the same way straight girls do, like the 'hot' Bono pic? Which member of U2 is sexiest to you?
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Old 02-03-2005, 04:55 AM   #32
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I'd just like to know what you look like
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Old 02-03-2005, 04:58 AM   #33
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Originally posted by macphisto23


Thanks for awnsering my question! Just one more question, you said in previous years you tried to like girls, but do you think that if you really were determined that you could overcome being homosexual? It sounds like its more phsycological than anything, so is it possible to overcome it?
I don't know how from Irvine's in depth description to your question you concluded that it was phsycological. Is your attraction to the opposite sex psycological?
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Old 02-03-2005, 07:04 AM   #34
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Thanks for awnsering my question! Just one more question, you said in previous years you tried to like girls, but do you think that if you really were determined that you could overcome being homosexual? It sounds like its more phsycological than anything, so is it possible to overcome it?

i don't know if i could have been any more determined to be heterosexual. and think about it -- if you have to try at something that's supposed to be natural, just how natural is it? whereas being attracted to men was very, very easy. to be blunt, remember what it is you think about when you masturbate; that's a pretty good way to gague your sexuality.

i don't like the word "overcome" -- i think what must be "overcome" are antiquated soceital attitudes and certain legislative backlashes. that's also the very real danger of getting bashed, but that doesn't happen as much as it used to, though it is still a real thing.

i also think that there isn't a gay person alive who hasn't wished to be straight. if given the chance to be authentically straight -- as in, i am attracted to women in the same way that i am attracted to men, which is to say physically and emotionally -- yes, i think i would take it. i don't like the social costs of being homosexual; i don't like having to worry about whether or not someone might have a bad reaction (and i've been lucky, all my friends basically said, "duh, we already knew" when i came out); i don't want to have to jump through hoops to start a family. there are so many, many things that are taken for granted when you are straight, that yes, if i could switch -- *authentically* switch, non of that ex-gay crap where they teach you to repress your desires -- i would seriously consider it.

i've argued for the psychological componant of sexuality, but it also does come down to one undeniable fact: male bodies turn me on, female bodies do not.

in some ways, it's very simple.

at the same time, though, i think it can be argued that perhaps society needs a few homosexuals. while at this point i plan to one day adopt, there is something to be said for a group of adults who are childless. it can be an opportunity. childless menand women can transfer their absent parental instincts into broader parental roles: they can be extraordinary teachers and mentors, nurses and doctors, priests, rabbis, and nuns; they can throw themselves into chairty work; they can adopt; or they can use all their spare time to excell in their field of work that is sometimes unavialable to harried heterosexual parents. really, where would the Boy Scouts be without homosexuals? the military, too? much of the work done in major cities across the country, the people working 80 hours a week, is done by homosexuals -- they might be the most loyal staffer in an election campaign, work round teh cloc in ajournalistic produciton, be the lawyer most willing to meet the impossible deadline.

it could also be argued that homosexual relationships may contain fetaures that could nourish society as a whole. precisely because there is no model, gay relationships are inspired often by genuine commitment. the mutural nurturing and sexual expressiveness of many lesbian relationships, the solidity and space of many gay made relationships -- these are things that heterosexuals could learn from. there is a necessary honesty between two gay men -- and an explicitness when it comes to talking about sex that at first took be aback, and now i couldn't do without -- and a flexibility that comes with sharing the same gender. these might be much more "equal" relationships than a heterosexual one can be.

finally, there is far less socioeconomic stratification in gay life than in stright life. same-sex desire cuts through class and race, it is a humbling experience that enables you to meet people you otherwise would never come into contact with.

in the end, we are all involved in the procreation of society, but most gays and lesbians are implicated in a much less literal sense.

i'll end with a quote from a gay writer:

"perhaps it requires seeing one's life as the end of a biological chain, or seeing one's deepest emotions as the object of detestation, that provides insight. but the seeds of homosexual wisdom are the seeds of human wisdom. they contain the truth that order is in fact a euphemism for disorder; that problems are more sanely enjoyed than solved; that there is reason in mystery; that there is beauty in the wild flowers that grow randomly among our wheat."

i really love that.
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Old 02-03-2005, 07:11 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by dlihcraw
Will you become a Canadian anytime soon, assuming Canada allows gay marriage?

[...]

Isn’t it more appropriate to speak of a localized legal definition of marriage than a traditional definition of marriage? I mean, it’s obvious “new” traditional definitions have penetrated the dominate North American mindset. Laws must be what’s really at the heart of this matter, no? Hey, weren’t there once laws excluding woman from the definition of person, as with blacks and aboriginals?

One love, one blood, one life…

i've been to canada half a dozen times. i really love it; Toronto is one of the great cities in North America, and i'm sure i'd love Vancouver once i finally get to visit. yes, i would consider immigrating to Canada, though the first country i'd flee to should i want to leave the US would be Australia for reasons that extend back to childhood (dolphins, beaches, etc.). i do love this country, especially the ideals it was founded upon, and i think right now those ideals are under attack and i've got to stay and fight.

but, yes, i'd become Canadian, or at least live there, quite happily.

as for marriage ... i think it's safe to say that marriage is first and foremost a legal contract. there is nothing sacred about civil marriage. essentially, it comes down to rights, tax breaks, and giving people tools to create monogamous relationships which benefit everyone. i would also argue that even 40 years ago we had marriages, especially in the South, that are illegal today. Loretta Lynn was married when she was 14. Jerry Lee Lewis married his 13 year old cousin! today, we call this statuatory rape, despite it's 5,000 years of tradition where men in their 40s and 50s took barely pubescent wives.

if you're really pro-marriage, wouldn't you try to get everyone married?

the marriage debate is so shockingly hypocritical to me, and i say the same thing that i would say to the gun lobby. please stop hiding behind some smokescreen, and say what you really mean. to the gun people: drop the "well regulated militia" thing, and just say "I LOVE GUNS!" to the anti-marriage rights people: drop arguments about "traditions," and just say "GAY PEOPLE ARE GROSS!"
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Old 02-03-2005, 07:20 AM   #36
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Originally posted by U2utah2U
I have a question that could really help me out. I have a friend that has been dealing with homosexual tendencies this past year. She had a girlfriend for awhile but left her when the relationship got abusive. Now she says she's trying to "go straight." I'm having a hard time relating to her since I'm married and have a kid but I love her as a friend and want to be as supportive as possible. What literature would you recommend for family and friends of people that are "coming out?" --How we can be supportive without being judgmental and also how to keep lines of communication open even though there may be tension in the relationship?


i'm not an expert on coming out literature, but there is TONS of it available. i'm sure if you went into SLC (i assume you're from Utah), you could find a bookstore that's a little more outre than your typical Borders. but if that doesn't work, just do a search on amazon.

i'd recommend getting the most up-to-date stuff possible, as attitudes and understanding of the psychological impact increases daily. i would also recommend contacting state psychological services -- there must be some BGLT psychologists/counselors available. in washington DC, we have the Whitman-Walker clinic. it's a sliding scale clinic where you can get an AIDS test, or seek counseling. it's not exclusively for homosexuals, but probably 60% of the clients are. there must be a similar organization, i would suggest contacting those as well. finding a counselor who has experience dealing with "coming out" is critical.

there is also an organization called PFLAG -- Parents and Friends of Lesbians And Gays. i would suggest contacting them as well, and perhaps going to a meeting.

the most important thing that you can do as a friend is to listen, and not to judge. please understand that she is probably swimming in a sea of inner emotional turmoil. the important thing is to listen, and to make sure that she is making authentic choices and listening to what her mind and body are telling her, not what it is she thinks she should be doing or what it is she thinks she is expected to do.

the most important thing, i think, is for you to create a space where she feels free to really, really talk these things out, exploring every possible nuance. but make sure she is leading the discussion, and that you're following what it is she wants to talk about. coming out is a very self-absorbed time, naturally. and it is often followed by a period of depression as acceptance settles in. i know this first hand -- i was depressed for a good 6 months after coming to terms with it. i remember driving in the rain down wisconsin ave in DC and having to pull the car over because i started to cry. it's a very vulnerable time -- she needs to know you love and value her no matter what.
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Old 02-03-2005, 07:22 AM   #37
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Originally posted by LoveTown
A

big thanks and a biiiiiiiig for you
right back at you
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Old 02-03-2005, 07:46 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2Kitten
Do you look at guys as "hot" the same way straight girls do, like the 'hot' Bono pic? Which member of U2 is sexiest to you?

yes, gay men and straight women usually make fast friends because of this. my friend's wife and i are currently planning to have a Johnny Depp film festival.

however, there are some differences. i think gay men look at men the way straight men look at women. but it varies as much as heterosexual attraction varies. for me, for example, i tend to divide men into three camps. the first are people that i find wholly unattractive. like Dick Cheney. the second, are people that are universally attractive and are like pieces of art. like Jude Law. the third are people who's looks speak directly to you, and you find them sexy, but not everyone else would. my first boyfriend fit this exactly. he wasn't conventionally good looking, but there was something about the shaved head and the goatee combined with blinding white teeth and his subtly sophistocated sense of style that overcame the extra layer of flab around his belly. he wasn't hot, but he was goddamn sexy.

i love your Bono pic, btw. if we could meld larry's face and body, Bono's charisma, Edge's brain, and Adam's willy -- a perfect man you'd have.
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Old 02-03-2005, 07:49 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
I'd just like to know what you look like

did you see "The Talented Mr. Riply"?

well, i look *exactly* like Jude Law in that movie.

exactly.



no, not really. i'm 5'11, used to be blond, blue eyes, fair skinned (irish/swedish descent), former butterflyer who's let himself go a bit and could stand to lose 10 lbs. i've been told i look like Andy Richter as well, a comment i'm not sure how to take. i've also been told i look like the eldest brother from "home improvement."
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Old 02-03-2005, 07:52 AM   #40
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Aw, sounds nice

esp the 5'11, fair skinned, and Irish/Swedish part

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Old 02-03-2005, 08:10 AM   #41
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Originally posted by Irvine511
former butterflyer
Swimmer or entomologist?
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Old 02-03-2005, 08:27 AM   #42
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Swimmer or entomologist?

swimmer. totally. was obsessed as a youth and teenager. to this day, i get silly every 4 years when the Olympics are on. and what a great time to be a swimming fan when we have the two best swimmers, ever, currently competing: ian thorp and michael phelps.

and thorpe? totally gay, i'm told .... but just a rumor. please, no lawsuits!
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Old 02-03-2005, 08:34 AM   #43
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Originally posted by U2utah2U
I have a question that could really help me out. I have a friend that has been dealing with homosexual tendencies this past year. She had a girlfriend for awhile but left her when the relationship got abusive. Now she says she's trying to "go straight." I'm having a hard time relating to her since I'm married and have a kid but I love her as a friend and want to be as supportive as possible. What literature would you recommend for family and friends of people that are "coming out?" --How we can be supportive without being judgmental and also how to keep lines of communication open even though there may be tension in the relationship?


try this to start: http://www.pflagslc.org/



also:

PFLAG Salt Lake City
2779 Hampton Park Drive
Salt Lake City, UT 84119
801.975.0735
801.244.6423
president@pflagslc.org
http://www.pflagslc.org



PFLAG St. George
823 Harrison
Saint George, UT 84790
435.673.3356
801.244.6423
claudiab@redrock.net
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Old 02-03-2005, 08:55 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by macphisto23
Thanks for awnsering my question! Just one more question, you said in previous years you tried to like girls, but do you think that if you really were determined that you could overcome being homosexual? It sounds like its more phsycological than anything, so is it possible to overcome it?
"Trying to like girls" is mostly due to cultural conditioning. Contrary to what many on the Religious Right like to believe, we already live in an overwhelmingly "heterosexual" world, so when you're about 10 or 11 and you see your classmates start being attracted to the opposite sex, while you're not, you wonder what's going on.

There may be a few years after that where you really just don't have a word for what you feel, and you just stumble around feeling "different." Eventually, though, you learn what a "homosexual" is, and it all makes sense. It is, essentially, a word for what you've been feeling all along.

This is generally why I take great offense to the Religious Right claiming that "the homosexual agenda" is "recruiting." No, I can guarantee that most everyone has the feelings before they can put a word on what those feelings are.

Melon
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Old 02-03-2005, 09:00 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511



yes. and we need, and appreciate, all the love and support we get from Christians. on FYM, i've learned so much about the side of Chirstianity that i was never exposed to, nor do i hear much about on TV, thanks to Dobson, Falwell, Robertson, and W.

it makes me re-think my own relationship to christianity. needs more thought, but the fact that Christians are as diverse as any community makes me feel much more warmly towards the Church.
My parish has gay-lesbian spiritual retreats.


Ok, my question:

Are you wearing jeans?

What other bands besides U2 do you listen to?
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