Ask the Homo - Page 11 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 02-10-2005, 08:20 AM   #151
Refugee
 
stammer476's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,058
Local Time: 11:46 AM
Could you respect or have a good relationship with someone who believed that homosexuality is a sin?
__________________

__________________
stammer476 is offline  
Old 02-10-2005, 08:24 AM   #152
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,493
Local Time: 09:46 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by joyfulgirl


This is true of my gay friends in long-term relationships as well and, frankly, it is these relationships that I admire and respect and that seem healthy to me. There is not one relationship among my close straight couple friends that I feel is as healthy and strong as those of my gay friends in long-term relationships. I see infidelity in a much different light now through my friendships with gay couples than I used to. I'm just not sure if that kind of tolerance and openness works in hetero relationships because women generally are not interested in the casual one-night stand just for sex if they are in a fulfilling relationship. Women tend to cheat because their needs aren't getting met at home in some way. Men cheat sometimes for the same reason but they can also cheat just for the pure sexual act. So this kind of tolerance in a hetero relationship more often than not would be imbalanced for the woman and leave her feeling like he had all the power in the relationship. I doubt I would end a loving relationship over one indiscretion but I'm not sure I could tolerate multiple indiscretions. It works for gay men; I've never really seen it work for hetero couples.

this does seem to be true. and these are real gender differences that manifest themselves most in same-sex couples. perhaps it does work. it's a difficult process -- forcing yourself to unlearn cultural expectations, even when they seem to be good ones (like fidelity), because they aren't necessarily the best way for everyone to live.

it's difficult. it's like advanced personhood in a way -- you've got to be aware and alert, and listen to yourself and your partner, when you're forging your own path through the world, because the path that was laid before you, and the path that most people walk on, simply doesn't apply to you. self-creation is scary, and liberating.

i'm sure i'm going to struggle with this. as i've said, i'd like a 100% monogamous relationship, but that's more of a hope than an expectation. the difficulty comes in accepting the gap between the two, and to quote Mr. Springsteen, "you've go to learn to live what you can't rise above/ if you want to ride on down into this Tunnel of Love."
__________________

__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 02-10-2005, 08:35 AM   #153
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,493
Local Time: 09:46 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by stammer476
Could you respect or have a good relationship with someone who believed that homosexuality is a sin?
you mean a sexual relationship? or a friendship?

a friendship ... it depends. on a superficial level, of course, assuming both parties were civil to each other and focused on what they had in common. if said friend sought to bring it up, to convert me, to point out their opposition, to recommend their local neighborhood ex-gay group, then yes it would be difficult to have a relationship with that person.

at the end of the day, though, if someone had made it clear to me that they did view it as a sin, and that this was as important to them as any other aspect of my personality, i don't think i'd want to be around such a person. i remember one FYM comment made to me months ago, about how this person had no problem with gay people, but that he felt it was 100% appropriate, if a gay person were in his family, to let them know that he disapproved of the "lifestyle" and viewed it as sinful. following this, the gay person's partner would never be considered a member of the family, simply a friend, and that they wouldn't get presents at Christmas, cards on birthdays, or in any way be given the same status as the heterosexual spouses of other family members.

this would force me to walk away from such a person. it's simply not possible to respect someone who doesn't respect you back, especially in such a fundamental way.

something like being gay is both an inextricable part of my identity, yet is almost incidental to who i am. society, and politics, do tend to force you into a role, and force you to have to see things in certain ways. there's no question that it's influence (quite negatively) my view of Bush, Christians (many, not all), and the Republican Party. but that's there fault, not mine.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 02-10-2005, 08:36 AM   #154
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,493
Local Time: 09:46 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
Just curious Irvine, but what do you think of Beyonce?

pretty girl, good voice. don't see why she has to always be soaking wet in her videos. i wish she'd be more classy about it.

that said, if you can't enjoy "crazy in love," you probably kiss with your mouth closed.

__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 02-10-2005, 08:42 AM   #155
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 24,984
Local Time: 09:46 PM

I have a silly question-what do you think is beautiful in a woman looks-wise, and what famous women do you think are very beautiful?

Also, since you like Bruce, have you ever been to a Bruce concert?
__________________
MrsSpringsteen is offline  
Old 02-10-2005, 08:43 AM   #156
Refugee
 
stammer476's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,058
Local Time: 11:46 AM
Sorry, I should have clarified. Could you have a deep, meaningful friendship with someone who believed that homosexuality is a sin? For this person, they maintain their stance on homosexuality for religious reasons, but wouldn't bring it up, wouldn't attempt to convert you, and would treat you just like anyone else.

Essentially what I'm asking is, would the subconscious knowledge of someone's religious views on homosexuality stop you from a deep friendship with them, even if they didn't play a "tangible" part in the relationship?
__________________
stammer476 is offline  
Old 02-10-2005, 08:46 AM   #157
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
ZeroDude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Belfast
Posts: 4,953
Local Time: 03:46 AM
Would that just not be the same as people disagreeing on a subject? No need to make a big deal out of it ( forgive me if this sounds naive)
__________________
ZeroDude is offline  
Old 02-10-2005, 08:49 AM   #158
Refugee
 
stammer476's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,058
Local Time: 11:46 AM
I don't know, and that's why I'm asking. It's easy to agree to disagree on smaller issues (political, social, etc.), but I want to know how possible is it for something as important as a person's sexuality. It's such a deep issue that I don't know if it can be ignored as easily as other things.
__________________
stammer476 is offline  
Old 02-10-2005, 08:50 AM   #159
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
ZeroDude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Belfast
Posts: 4,953
Local Time: 03:46 AM
Yea I see what you mean it depends on whether or not a person would want to make an issue out of it
__________________
ZeroDude is offline  
Old 02-10-2005, 08:52 AM   #160
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
sulawesigirl4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Virginia
Posts: 7,416
Local Time: 09:46 PM
I wonder if it would not be akin to my not being able to be truly close to someone who believes that women are not fully equal (ie. not fully human, whether they state it that way or not). I can be friends on a certain casual level, but with that lack of basic respect, any sort of true relationship becomes impossible.
__________________
"I can't change the world, but I can change the world in me." - Bono

sulawesigirl4 is offline  
Old 02-10-2005, 08:56 AM   #161
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
ZeroDude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Belfast
Posts: 4,953
Local Time: 03:46 AM
Yea well that sort of thing usually makes the person in question an arse in most cases you know but somethings there are reasonablely good people who have some strange views
__________________
ZeroDude is offline  
Old 02-10-2005, 08:57 AM   #162
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 24,984
Local Time: 09:46 PM
I wonder that too. I think it would always be in your mind that they think that way about you. I haven't had that many male friends so I don't know from experience, but that's an interesting analogy sula
__________________
MrsSpringsteen is offline  
Old 02-10-2005, 08:57 AM   #163
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,493
Local Time: 09:46 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by stammer476
Sorry, I should have clarified. Could you have a deep, meaningful friendship with someone who believed that homosexuality is a sin? For this person, they maintain their stance on homosexuality for religious reasons, but wouldn't bring it up, wouldn't attempt to convert you, and would treat you just like anyone else.

Essentially what I'm asking is, would the subconscious knowledge of someone's religious views on homosexuality stop you from a deep friendship with them, even if they didn't play a "tangible" part in the relationship?

i'd like to think that it wouldn't, but i feel like the discussion of relationships, and, as bono says, "love and faith and sex and fear" are so integral, for me, to a close, deep friendship, that knowing that how i love and have sex are deeply disapproved of by the friend would naturally make me hold back and prevent intimacy and honesty.

it does get hard. i understand that some people have strong religious convictions, and you want to respect those. yet it becomes hard to respect the belief -- not the person -- when ever fiber of your being tells you that it is flat-out wrong.

gosh, sounds a bit like hate the sin, love the sinner.



in sum, a friendship, absolutely. but true emotional intimacy, that would be much harder.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 02-10-2005, 09:02 AM   #164
Refugee
 
stammer476's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,058
Local Time: 11:46 AM
Thanks for your reply, Irvine. And thanks for this thread. I guess I've got some more thinking to do.
__________________
stammer476 is offline  
Old 02-10-2005, 09:10 AM   #165
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
cell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Disneyland
Posts: 5,901
Local Time: 07:46 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511



i'd like to think that it wouldn't, but i feel like the discussion of relationships, and, as bono says, "love and faith and sex and fear" are so integral, for me, to a close, deep friendship, that knowing that how i love and have sex are deeply disapproved of by the friend would naturally make me hold back and prevent intimacy and honesty.

it does get hard. i understand that some people have strong religious convictions, and you want to respect those. yet it becomes hard to respect the belief -- not the person -- when ever fiber of your being tells you that it is flat-out wrong.

gosh, sounds a bit like hate the sin, love the sinner.



in sum, a friendship, absolutely. but true emotional intimacy, that would be much harder.

i believe its possible. my best friend who's passed on now, was very open and honest with me about everything about what he was going thru at the time. i never once questioned his sexuality in the open. i couldnt do that to him. i loved him too much.
__________________

__________________
cell is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:46 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com