Ask the Homo

[Irvine511]

Why doesn't Bruce Springsteen have a bigger gay following? All my gay male friends are unimpressed, even annoyed, by him, and the audience at the show I just saw was so white and straight it was unbelievable. Of course it was also white, straight Denver. I take it back, I have one gay friend who likes Springsteen but he is an anomaly in every way. I guess it's the whole blue collar working man thing but, geez, he's also hot, especially today.

while i don't think Bruce is hot, i am a HUGE fan. i think he is, as opposed to Bono, overtly heterosexual. he's not homophobic, but his lyrics are very specific, and very specifically male-female, and i do find them a bit of a barrier sometimes ... i'm not really interested in her secret garden, but i do understand about leaving a bad taste in your mouth, if you know what i mean. his rock stuff is also pretty macho, and rather rah-rah, and when i saw him in concert (very awesome) he did lots of guitar-as-pahllus poses and struts. but his solo accoustic stuff is rather astonishing in it's literary qualities -- he really is Steinbeck in leather. but, yes, his fands tend to be very white and straight.

and i'm sorry, but any gay man who can't appreciate the poet of the working classes being brave enough to write "streets of philadelphia" way back in 1993 really needs to get some perspective.

and many gay men (including me) find the blue collar thing really hot, very butch.

 

[joyfulgirl]

That all makes sense. I guess I find him to be so cool that he's hot. I went through a period where I didn't think he was so hot physically and then when I saw him a few weeks ago on the solo tour, and also watched the DVD that came with the new record, I realized it's not so much that he's physically hot but he is just so cool. He's so much hotter/cooler today, I think, than he's been since, say the "Tunnel of Love" video (which was really his "With or Without You" moment).

Okay, we've covered some hot man ground today.

 

[LadyRhia]

Russell is hot.

I like him better thinking he might be gay. If he's straight, he's probably a macho jerk. But if he's gay, then maybe the macho jerk thing is just overcompensating for being in the closet.

A little of both is hot.A little macho,a little sensitive,you know the perfect man

I found Clive Owen extremely hot in Closer,and he was a bit of a jerk.

 

[I'm Ready]

actually irvine if u look at the lyrics to Backstreets I'm fairly certain its about a gay relationship

 

[joyfulgirl]

One soft infested summer me and Terry became friends
Trying in vain to breathe the fire we was born in
Catching rides to the outskirts tying faith between our teeth
Sleeping in that old abandoned beach house getting wasted in the heat
And hiding on the backstreets, hiding on the backstreets
With a love so hard and filled with defeat
Running for our lives at night on them backstreets

Slow dancing in the dark on the beach at Stockton's Wing
Where desperate lovers park we sat with the last of the Duke Street Kings
Huddled in our cars waiting for the bells that ring
In the deep heart of the night to set us loose from everything
to go running on the backstreets, running on the backstreets
We swore we'd live forever on the backstreets we take it together

Endless juke joints and Valentino drag where dancers scraped the tears
Up off the street dressed down in rags running into the darkness
Some hurt bad some really dying at night sometimes it seemed
You could hear the whole damn city crying blame it on the lies that killed us
Blame it on the truth that ran us down you can blame it all on me Terry
It don't matter to me now when the breakdown hit at midnight
There was nothing left to say but I hated him and I hated you when you went away

Laying here in the dark you're like an angel on my chest
Just another tramp of hearts crying tears of faithlessness
Remember all the movies, Terry, we'd go see
Trying to learn how to walk like heroes we thought we had to be
And after all this time to find we're just like all the rest
Stranded in the park and forced to confess
To hiding on the backstreets, hiding on the backstreets
We swore forever friends on the backstreets until the end
Hiding on the backstreets, hiding on the backstreets

 

[Irvine511]

Originally posted by LadyRhia I found Clive Owen extremely hot in Closer,and he was a bit of a jerk. [/B]

totally agreed.

i even found him hotter than my boyfriend Jude Law.

can you imagine?!?!??!

 

[Irvine511]

actually irvine if u look at the lyrics to Backstreets I'm fairly certain its about a gay relationship

you're absolutely right.

funny -- that just occurred to me a few weeks ago, thanks for reminding me.

i also find it ironic that it was "backstreets" that made me realize that Bruce is a Grade A genius and converted me into a fan.

though at the time i was unaware of the gay content of the song.

i'm also a fan of the gay content on Boy, but i seem to get in trouble whenever i bring this up ...

 

[Irvine511]

One soft infested summer me and Terry became friends
Trying in vain to breathe the fire we was born in
Catching rides to the outskirts tying faith between our teeth
Sleeping in that old abandoned beach house getting wasted in the heat
And hiding on the backstreets, hiding on the backstreets
With a love so hard and filled with defeat
Running for our lives at night on them backstreets

Slow dancing in the dark on the beach at Stockton's Wing
Where desperate lovers park we sat with the last of the Duke Street Kings
Huddled in our cars waiting for the bells that ring
In the deep heart of the night to set us loose from everything
to go running on the backstreets, running on the backstreets
We swore we'd live forever on the backstreets we take it together

Endless juke joints and Valentino drag where dancers scraped the tears
Up off the street dressed down in rags running into the darkness
Some hurt bad some really dying at night sometimes it seemed
You could hear the whole damn city crying blame it on the lies that killed us
Blame it on the truth that ran us down you can blame it all on me Terry
It don't matter to me now when the breakdown hit at midnight
There was nothing left to say but I hated him and I hated you when you went away

Laying here in the dark you're like an angel on my chest
Just another tramp of hearts crying tears of faithlessness
Remember all the movies, Terry, we'd go see
Trying to learn how to walk like heroes we thought we had to be
And after all this time to find we're just like all the rest
Stranded in the park and forced to confess
To hiding on the backstreets, hiding on the backstreets
We swore forever friends on the backstreets until the end
Hiding on the backstreets, hiding on the backstreets

holy. shit.



seeing the lyrics all laid out like that just blew my gay mind. i could write a term paper on the homoerotic subtext in that song. totally about two boys in love and trying to hide it, trying to learn from the movies how to be straight, and crap, we all now know that Valentino was gay.

i mean, the title alone ... "backstreets" ...

 

[LadyRhia]

totally agreed.

i even found him hotter than my boyfriend Jude Law.

can you imagine?!?!??!

LOL,I like to take both of their characters and make one man

 

[joyfulgirl]

holy. shit.



seeing the lyrics all laid out like that just blew my gay mind. i could write a term paper on the homoerotic subtext in that song. totally about two boys in love and trying to hide it, trying to learn from the movies how to be straight, and crap, we all now know that Valentino was gay.

i mean, the title alone ... "backstreets" ...

Yeah, that was pretty much my reaction. I have known the lyrics by heart ever since the record came out (dating myself again) and once I became gay-savvy I realized the references were probably gay but I had completely forgotten about it until it was brought up here and when I actually saw it in writing for the first time in God knows how many years, it kinda blew my mind! I have newfound respect for Bruce. This was back in 1975!!

 

[Irvine511]

Yeah, that was pretty much my reaction. I have known the lyrics by heart ever since the record came out (dating myself again) and once I became gay-savvy I realized the references were probably gay but I had completely forgotten about it until it was brought up here and when I actually saw it in writing for the first time in God knows how many years, it kinda blew my mind! I have newfound respect for Bruce. This was back in 1975!!

if i had gone into academics instead of television, i imaigne i would have spent a good amount of time -- since i would have done either American Studies or Media Studies -- going back over media "texts" and unearthing homoerotic subtext. there's loads of it through cinema -- just look at some of the more obvious examples: "lawrence of arabia" or "rebel w/out a cause." it's rather amazing how such subtext was woven through these stories, either intentionally or unintentionally, and you begin to learn the semiotics of gay "code" -- all fascinating stuff, and which is why i thought "far from heaven" was so brilliant, because it took what was once subtext and made it into the actual text, yet retained that perfect look, and managed not to play any of it for laughs. that, and Julianne Moore was so utterly perfect in every way imaginable.

as you know ... "sometimes a hero takes me/ sometimes i can't let go/ hello, hello/ stories for boys ..."

 

[daygloeyes2]

and Joey Potter has that Batman movie to promote with the equally delicious Christian Bale.

Christian Bale

I know you answered the question about what you think of QAF, but what do you think of Will and Grace?

 

[LadyRhia]

if i had gone into academics instead of television, i imaigne i would have spent a good amount of time -- since i would have done either American Studies or Media Studies -- going back over media "texts" and unearthing homoerotic subtext. there's loads of it through cinema -- just look at some of the more obvious examples: "lawrence of arabia" or "rebel w/out a cause." it's rather amazing how such subtext was woven through these stories, either intentionally or unintentionally, and you begin to learn the semiotics of gay "code" -- all fascinating stuff, and which is why i thought "far from heaven" was so brilliant, because it took what was once subtext and made it into the actual text, yet retained that perfect look, and managed not to play any of it for laughs. that, and Julianne Moore was so utterly perfect in every way imaginable.

as you know ... "sometimes a hero takes me/ sometimes i can't let go/ hello, hello/ stories for boys ..."

Iam not as gay savvy as Joygirl yet but Iam interested in hearing about examples from other movies that you think have the subtext woven through them.

I would think that one of the most obvious would be the relationship between Tony Curtis and Kirk Douglas in the movie Spartacus.(No I wasnt alive yet,when it was made,LOL)

"Far From Heaven" is a brilliant movie(Iam a huge fan of Julianne Moore)

 

[Irvine511]

Christian Bale

I know you answered the question about what you think of QAF, but what do you think of Will and Grace?

Will and Grace used to be a laugh riot -- though i think it should be called "Jack and Karen" as they steal the show. in fact, Karen is one of my all-time favorite television characters, and i think the show will go down as one of the great television comedies due to it's savvy writing, memorable characters, and generous ensemble acting.

i suppose i don't like the fact that both Jack and Will are reasonably effeminate, and Jack embodies so many stereotypes ... but, again, this is TV, and TV does this to all people especialy in comedies.

i also don't see why we never, ever see male characters kiss or in bed with one another. compare this to the Friends who were far more sexually active than Jack or Will ... it's a total double standard, and directly linked to ratings -- how many straight men want to see two men kissing?

one day, straight culture will loosen up, and the faults with W&G are more symptoms of straight culture's hypocrisy, double standards and ignorance than anything else.

 

[joyfulgirl]

I agree with everything you said, although I think I like the character Grace better than Karen who sometimes is a bit cartoon-like. I swear sometimes Debra Messing's facial expressions remind me of a modern day Lucille Ball.

I used to really be annoyed by Will & Grace and people didn't understand why I didn't like it especially when I was living with a gay man (although he and I were more like Felix & Oscar sometimes than Will & Grace, lol). In general I have trouble with sitcoms but at some point W&G started making me giggle. I see it as a step, though, in getting people used to seeing gay people on TV and eventually they will be allowed to be physically demonstrative. Remember Lucy & Ricky were not even allowed to share a bed which was weirder than imagining how they made Little Ricky--the two of them cramped in one single bed or perhaps they did it in the kitchen or the living room floor.

Jack, horrible stereotype that he is, is hiliarious and who doesn't know a Jack. And it is odd that Will is considered the manly one when in fact he's actually not really.

I love QAF, btw. I guess the lifestyle presented isn't so far-fetched to me but reminds me more of the late 80s and early 90s than today. Even my sluttiest friends don't really do the back room in clubs anymore. I do like the American characters better than the British ones, though.

My favorite gay TV characters though are still Keith & David on Six Feet Under. Can't beat the hot black manly gay cop.

 

[melon]

Gay TV depresses me, honestly. I don't really relate to any of the characters, and all I end up doing is getting mad.

I generally prefer animation, I guess. It's generally asexual or very flippant over sexual issues. I'm tired of watching relationship-obsessed sitcoms.

Melon

 

[joyfulgirl]

Gay TV depresses me, honestly. I don't really relate to any of the characters, and all I end up doing is getting mad.

I generally prefer animation, I guess. It's generally asexual or very flippant over sexual issues. I'm tired of watching relationship-obsessed sitcoms.

Melon

I understand that because my relationships and lifestyle don't resemble the hetero ones presented on TV either. I used to get depressed watching Sex & the City because having been a single woman in her 30's in NYC I knew that those characters were not in any way possible a realistic picture of the single life of the average woman in NYC (if anything, replace the women with gay men and you'd have more realistic characters). But then I opened up to it and realized that my girl talk in coffee shops wasn't so different than theirs even if we weren't DYING because we hadn't sex in 2 weeks, and Carrie's columns often zeroed in on things I could relate to.

 

[elevation2u]

on a scale from 1 to 10, where would you put bruce springsteen?



*********edited to say i just went back a couple pages and realized bruce springsteen was already discussed, ooops

 

[elevation2u]

morrisey: gay, straight or neither as he claims?

 

[Irvine511]

on a scale from 1 to 10, where would you put bruce springsteen?



*********edited to say i just went back a couple pages and realized bruce springsteen was already discussed, ooops

if 1 = totally straight and 10 = totally gay, he's probably a 2.

and for the record, i don't think ANYONE is either a 1 or a 10.

i'm probably a 7.5.

 

[Irvine511]

morrisey: gay, straight or neither as he claims?

i honestly have no idea.

in general, if someone is being coy like that, it usually means that they don't want to alienate anyone -- usually, that then means that they're gay and don't want to scare of straight people.

however, Morissey's audience is probably substantailly gay, or at the very least sensitive and melancholic, so perhaps his saying that he was straight would alienate them.

my guess, if forced: has probably dated women, but is probably mostly interested in men these days.

for some reason, women tend to go back and forth more easily, and it seems that many lesbians in college wind up with men.

with men, it's the opposite. once they come to terms with their same-sex attraction and act upon it, there's little going back. usually.

but then again, Stephen Daldry (i think), the guy who directed "The Hours" is an out gay man.

he also just married a woman.

he says he loves this woman, and they have sex.

but he's still gay.



who am i to judge? sexuality is complex.

 

[BVS]

I used to get depressed watching Sex & the City because having been a single woman in her 30's in NYC I knew that those characters were not in any way possible a realistic picture of the single life of the average woman in NYC

You mean you weren't all sleeping with guys 10 years younger, living in fabulous apartments while wearing $500 pair of shoes? Damnitt. My whole view of NY women is shot.

Note to self: cancel trip to New York.

 

[Dalton]

I don't have a question at this time, but I wanted to drop in and say that I like and respect you Irvine.


I appreciate your candor and perspective. Thanks.

 

[BVS]

for some reason, women tend to go back and forth more easily, and it seems that many lesbians in college wind up with men.

with men, it's the opposite. once they come to terms with their same-sex attraction and act upon it, there's little going back. usually.

but then again, Stephen Daldry (i think), the guy who directed "The Hours" is an out gay man.

he also just married a woman.

he says he loves this woman, and they have sex.

but he's still gay.



who am i to judge? sexuality is complex.

Do you ever feel these "flip floppers" in someway hurt the gay community? That it somehow fuels the ones that want to condition you to be straight?

 

[LadyRhia]

if 1 = totally straight and 10 = totally gay, he's probably a 2.

and for the record, i don't think ANYONE is either a 1 or a 10.

i'm probably a 7.5.

Interesting..reasons?

 

[joyfulgirl]

You mean you weren't all sleeping with guys 10 years younger, living in fabulous apartments while wearing $500 pair of shoes? Damnitt. My whole view of NY women is shot.

Note to self: cancel trip to New York.

Well some of us were sleeping with guys 10 years younger (and still do, or at least could, now that it's fashionable ), and some of us had fabulous apartments (that we shared with 3 other people, converting the living room into a bedroom), and some of us wore $500 shoes (that we got for $100 at discount stores). But most of us were not having so much (casual) sex that 2 weeks without it seemed like an unbearable eternity, and most of us were living in 5th floor dumpy tiny walk-up studios that cost $1200 (which would be cheap by today's NYC rental standards), and most of us chose shoes for walking comfort, not fashion statements. And most of us were eating take-out Chinese food instead of in trendy restaurants except on special occasions. Some of the conversations the Sex & the City women have about men vs. women are pretty spot on, but the overall lifestyle is pretty unrealistic.

But don't cancel your trip. It's still a fun place and the women are still great and would love a nice cute redhead who probably isn't as neurotic as the stereotypical NY man.

 

[joyfulgirl]

Oh, and Carrie's apt is actually pretty typical. It's just that the supermodel wardrobe doesn't match the apt but there was an episode devoted to why that is (her shopping addiction).

 

[doctorwho]

Why are you trying to destroy traditional marriage?

Although I'm sure you are asking this a bit tongue-in-cheek, if by "traditional marriage" you mean marrying in one's 20's, having 2-3 kids, going into extreme debt trying to live the "American Dream", fighting, divorcing between 30-45, with the woman left to raise said children and the man hooking up with a younger woman (possibly starting yet a second family that he can't afford), then God, I hope it's destroyed!

50% of marriages end in divorce. If that's tradition, then let's break it.

Seems to me there are 3 types of people who stayed married: (1) Those who are actually in love; (2) Those who would divorce but are too poor to do so; (3) Those who remain married for kids or for their careers (seen a lot in politics). I hate to be cynical, but I fear there's a lot more in categories 2 and 3 than in 1. Fortunately, I know many in category 1, so at least I see hope. But "tradition"? HA!

 

[Irvine511]

Do you ever feel these "flip floppers" in someway hurt the gay community? That it somehow fuels the ones that want to condition you to be straight?

it's a bit weird ... i think that bisexuals exist, and that sexuality is a complicated thing. one day, i think we will advance to the point where we can accept people who can go back and forth, and view that as another natural variant of human sexuality, and that it's as accceptable as being straight or gay.

for right now, i think that people who are looking to justify a "it's a choice" argument can easily point to bisexuals, particularly bisexual women, and say, "look, they are clearly making a choice." to that i say, "yes and no" as well as "you don't choose who you fall in love with." i think if a bisexual was told, "you must be in a heterosexual relationship," then they are biologically equipped with the means to do so. they could choose not to date the same gender, and to choose to only date the opposite gender, and you could argue that they are capable of having a real, constitutive attraction -- emotional and physical -- that can result in a real relationship. but at the same time, a person shouldn't necessarily be forced into that. perhaps a bisexual meets a same-gendered individual and falls in love; even if it's possible for them to be "straight" -- they won't be straight, they'd be bisexual, but they could be in a heterosexual relationship -- that individual should be free to enter into whatever relationship love and circumstance dictates.

 

[Irvine511]

Interesting..reasons?

i just don't think there's anyone who has never had a remotely homoerotic thought in their life. we can all see the sexuality in people, male or female, and i think that sex appeal doesn't necessarily have a gender. i think that when it came down to the nuts-and-bolts of having sex, you can find people who would be incapable of having sex wtih their same or opposite gender, but i think the warm, sexy feelings that flow between two people can happen between exclusively hetereosexual heterosexuals.

does that make sense? you could be turned on by the sexuality and sensuality of a person, male or female, even if the presence of "wrong" genitalia would prevent the consummation of the attraction.