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Old 02-13-2007, 12:06 AM   #136
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Originally posted by trevster2k


Well, too many people make the leap from pro-choice to pro-abortion just as some make the leap from anti-war to pro-terrorist or anti-death penalty to pro-murderers. You get the gist of what I am saying.

I hate those kind of leaps too. . .but unfortunately, such leaps certainly sell better (and make for better talk radio) than a respectful acknowledgement of your opponents humanity and intelligence.
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Old 02-13-2007, 12:07 AM   #137
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Originally posted by trevster2k

I don't think people should have to explicitly say they don't support abortion. No one is out there encouraging women to use abortion as a means of birth control. I thought that would be common sense but I'm wrong.
As you tried to articulate earlier, this is a complex issue. People's opinions aren't going to be changed by one thread, and the issue will continue on as long as abortion is an option.

I don't personally have the right to judge the motives of those who use such a heavy thing as abortion carelessly. The state doesn't either. I am on no one side, and this is a situation where sides do not truly exist, as the situation changes from case to case.

To say suchandsuch is good and suchandsuch is bad may be possible, but it leads down a bad road to closemindedness and stubbornness. Flexibility is key.

I may disagree with certain ways of going about abortion, but that doesn't mean I think it should be controlled by the state and permanently eliminated.

I really don't know what else to say.
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Old 02-13-2007, 12:08 AM   #138
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Here's something I don't understand. If anyone can explain this to me, please do.

I understand why someone who does not think that a fetus is a human life would support abortion rights.

But there are people out there who do believe that a fetus is a human life and agree that it is murder, but they still think it should not be made illegal. Can anyone explain this to me?
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Old 02-13-2007, 12:10 AM   #139
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest
Here's something I don't understand. If anyone can explain this to me, please do.

I understand why someone who does not think that a fetus is a human life would support abortion rights.

But there are people out there who do believe that a fetus is a human life and agree that it is murder, but they still think it should not be made illegal. Can anyone explain this to me?
Because it is a logical option in some cases.
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Old 02-13-2007, 12:20 AM   #140
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


But there are people out there who do believe that a fetus is a human life and agree that it is murder, but they still think it should not be made illegal. Can anyone explain this to me?
Well, I would think that it's possible that these people realize that as BVS stated earlier, unwanted pregnancies are fact of life in our society and there has to be a safe and legal option for woman who seek a termination to the pregnancy. Without this option, we would go back to the days of coat hangers and unclean and unsafe underground clinics. Or these women, many who have few resources might be forced to further undermine their situation by travelling to Canada or another country for the service.

Also, as some stated, they may not agree with the state being allowed to enforce a law depriving an individual of a decision which affects their personal body and well-being. Or they may understand the difficulties that the child while given the gift of life is likely to have a challenging existence as a result of not being wanted in the first place.

So these people may be content with accepting that for them and their loved ones, such an option would never ever be used. And while the thought of others using abortions as an option is morally reprehensible, it is something beyond their control.

That's all I can think of.
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Old 02-13-2007, 12:31 AM   #141
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Originally posted by trevster2k

So these people may be content with accepting that for them and their loved ones, such an option would never ever be used. And while the thought of others using abortions as an option is morally reprehensible, it is something beyond their control.
Indeed, and I am one of those people. I wish that abortions would never, ever have to be done. It's horrible to me, and I imagine most everyone in this thread agrees with that. No one really wants to kill off their offspring. However, the fact is that, in some cases, it needs to be done for the good of the parents.

It's sad to say, but this world really is f***ed up.
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Old 02-13-2007, 12:37 AM   #142
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LemonMelon and trevster2k, thank you very much for taking the time to address that issue. It does shed some light on the subject.

And to everyone, I say thank you for the civility you have displayed. Except for a little fighting that I was engaged in and helped perpetuate at the beginning, I think this is the most civil discussion on abortion I've ever seen at FYM.
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Old 02-13-2007, 12:40 AM   #143
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i don't know if this is off topic or not, and if it is off-topic please forgive me.

but i don't understand how some people can go on about defending "freedom" and "democracy", yet they base their votes on things that limit those very ideals. how can one be in support of living free yet also support creating laws on marriage and laws governing female bodies?

the day the government can regulate what comes out of my body (abortion or what have you) is the end of democracy as we know it. these very laws take power away from the people and make the government stronger.

also, can someone explain to me why abortion has to be a federal issue? why can't it be state regulated? the death penalty is.
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Old 02-13-2007, 12:41 AM   #144
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Quote:
Originally posted by LemonMelon
I'd like to ask this one more time:

What's more important, a person's comfort, or a potential human life?

I think most of us can agree that a human life is of more importance than an embryo's, but what about simple convenience?

EDIT: Sorry, I didn't see Trev's answer before I posted this. I thought no one saw this.
Obviously convenience.
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Old 02-13-2007, 12:43 AM   #145
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Originally posted by dazzlingamy

Also, not that i believe in "crime genes" but i think rapists should be castrated rather then spreading their seed into the next generation.
Good to see that on some issues even progressives will jump on a Sharia level band wagon.
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Old 02-13-2007, 12:46 AM   #146
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Originally posted by dazzlingamy
Also, not that i believe in "crime genes" but i think rapists should be castrated rather then spreading their seed into the next generation.
I agreed with you up until this point. That is contradictory to my stance on keeping the government off my body. Yes, rapists suck, but legalizing castration is just as scary as illegalizing abortion in my eyes.
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Old 02-13-2007, 01:03 AM   #147
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Originally posted by redhotswami


I agreed with you up until this point. That is contradictory to my stance on keeping the government off my body. Yes, rapists suck, but legalizing castration is just as scary as illegalizing abortion in my eyes.
What of chemical castration?
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Old 02-13-2007, 04:59 AM   #148
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Yeah I meant chemical castration - i don't mean to actually nut them, but to give them drugs that decrease their libedio or whatever, to at least give them a fighting chance of leading a productive life because statistics show that rape is one of the most reoffending crimes and something has to be done other then locking them up forever.

And i don't think denying someone a sexual urge when that urge makes them commit terrible crimes with chemicals is sharia level

but im derailing the thread...
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Old 02-13-2007, 05:07 AM   #149
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest
Here's something I don't understand. If anyone can explain this to me, please do.

I understand why someone who does not think that a fetus is a human life would support abortion rights.

But there are people out there who do believe that a fetus is a human life and agree that it is murder, but they still think it should not be made illegal. Can anyone explain this to me?
Well, this would be me, but let's make sure we're clear on terms here. While I do believe that abortion does take human life, I don't believe it is "murder." At this point--and my views on this arestill in process--I believe that not all "taking of human life" is equivalent to murder. On that much, I'm betting we agree. You might argue, for example that a soldier killing in wartime is not committing murder, and I might agree with you.

However, taking a human life is a huge thing. God did not create us to take the lives of our fellows, and when we do I believe thereis a high cost to the one who takes the life as well as to the one who loses the life. Still, in this sin-stained world, sometimes sadly, it is necessary. It should never be entered into flippantly and it should always be with a recognition of the costs involved but, yes, sometimes, it is necessary. And sometimes that "taking of life" means an abortion.
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Old 02-13-2007, 07:39 AM   #150
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest

But there are people out there who do believe that a fetus is a human life and agree that it is murder, but they still think it should not be made illegal. Can anyone explain this to me?
Yeah, it's none of the governments damn business. Just like if you were to get a vasectomy - that's killing the potential for human life - but no one would care b/c no one else needs to know. It's not so much that abortion is the problem, but the precedent it would set if the government were to ban them.
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