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Old 09-09-2002, 04:19 PM   #106
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few resposes to a few people

mad-- the show you watched is exactly what I think is wrong with 9/11. Was it inspirational? Ok. Did it tell a story? sure. But why did it have to become a TV movie to entertain people? this is the kind of coverage I'm against.

cloud-- you used a word to describe the media coverage at times that I totally agreed with: tasteless. I'm a journalist who feels that way too!

mistress-- thanks for the words. and btw, you're not the only one to mistake me for a guy. I really need to get a more feminine name.

To the rest of you, say what you want about this thread being shut down etc. but I think this discussion, while off topic at times, has been interesting.
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Old 09-09-2002, 04:25 PM   #107
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Quote:
. but I think this discussion, while off topic at times, has been interesting.




Ant.
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Old 09-09-2002, 04:26 PM   #108
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Raven Star, while I kinda sorta get what you implied in your first post I think that your timing (and your wording) may have been a little off.

Yes, 9/11 rememberance is everywhere, especially in the media and especially NOW. While I can't stand seeing all the merchandise myself, such as hats and t-shirts and bumper stickers, I DO NOT think that 9/11 is the most over-rated thing ever.

I'm a New Yorker, but more importantly I'm an American. And without trying to sound like I'm accusing you of being insensitive, I for one know that I cannot fathom the horrendous act of murder that was commited on that day.
There are people on the other side of the planet that hate us so much and we have no idea why, and they are commited to bringing us down because we are, in their eyes, "the forces of evil".

When I see media footage of that day, or signs saying "We will never forget" I do not feel contempt or "enough already". Rather I feel sadness, much sadness, for the fact that there could be so much hatred in this world.
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Old 09-09-2002, 04:29 PM   #109
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The reason so many people hate America? I think it's cause America like to stick it's nose in other peopes business and dont realise that they arent helping.
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Old 09-09-2002, 04:32 PM   #110
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Yes Raven Star, you have a point about that, and sometimes I feel the same way myself.

But, it certainly does not justify what happend to us, and what may happen in the future, now does it????
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Old 09-09-2002, 04:33 PM   #111
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There are people on the other side of the planet that hate us so much and we have no idea why
I think this is the problem that remains for most of us. People have suffered, people have wept, people have continued to die - and yet we have not understood.

No, I don't wish to generalize; I think that for each and every person, some form of personal evolution mast have taken place. However, generically, as an accumulation under nations, I think the case as highlighted by u2loopy may still be the case.

We have not yet understood fully, and yet here we are ready to invade another country.

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Old 09-09-2002, 04:55 PM   #112
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wow this thread has taken off- I cant believe how many posts have been put into this thing and really when I read it all I am reminded as to how bad and how kind of futile these arguments or rather debates are in this place- I can see where Raven Star comes from, maybe that is because we are both not Americans. For many years I have seen and heard of the countless attrocities that have happened and are happening throughout the world- Cambodia, Madagascar, Mozambique, East Timor, The Solomon Islands to name just a few and what iritates me the most is why the attrocitiy that happened in America last year should get precedence over these other malicious events- is the US event more worse??? I dont know, I dont think it was, I do feel terribly sad that it happened and that innocent people have died- I have read countless articles on stories from brave civillians, fire-fighters etc, etc I know more about the logistics of this event, damn I even know the internal floor plan layout of the buildings- and this I guess is exactly the point, well for me it is, is why should we know so much, well we should know all of this, but we should also know all of the workings of the other events in the world- in my opinion neither should take preecedence over the other- I want the world to realise that there is more to the world than all that is American, other people of different races and creeds are dying and hurting and why is it that we get the same one event shoved down our face all of the time???? I am sickk of it, I feel for the people who were brave and those who lost loved ones, however I feel nothing for the media machines who believe that it is in my best interest to re-live these events when I know that there other events that should now be given such media coverage
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Old 09-09-2002, 07:03 PM   #113
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Anthony-
W/the loss OF ANY innocent HUMAN-LIFE..to shrug it off is BOTH INHUMANE and Sub-Human...

I think her motive was to-
1-Call out ppl making a profit on tradegy and I agree that is wrong



2-However to "shrug off" the taking of ANY INNOCENT LIFE -
-In the USA
or
Afganistan
or
Iraq
or

Austrailia
or
Canada makes me and nearly EVERYOTHER decent person angry.

And this is the point.

Peace
Out--
Diamond
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Old 09-09-2002, 07:12 PM   #114
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Shrug Off?

I certainly did not shrug off any loss of life.

And I do not think it was her intention to, either. However, I may be wrong - I still am quite certain that 'I' did not shrug anything off.

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Old 09-09-2002, 08:02 PM   #115
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Re: Shrug Off?

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Quote:
Originally posted by Anthony
I certainly did not shrug off any loss of life.

And I do not think it was her intention to, either. However, I may be wrong - I still am quite certain that 'I' did not shrug anything off.

Ant.
No
Ant
You didnt.
Raven did.

This is what upset ppl here.

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Old 09-09-2002, 08:27 PM   #116
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Thanks for pointing that out, Diamond, but I did appreciate people's reasons for being upset.

RavenStar's point and intentions were somewhat the subject of a long and heated discussion, as you saw. However, others posted their opinion, to which she not only agreed with, but stated that those 'points' were the ones she was trying to make in the first place.

She even said at one point, 'God I suck at making points'.

She has made it quite clear, when she's had the opportunity to do so, that she hated the cynical merchandising of the entire ordeal and how she thought that some elements of 9/11 overshadowed other atrocities - this may be questionable. However, its a far cry from the seemingly callous and outright cruel image interpretations have made her appear to be.

She said it. Tried to say it again differently, and has made it reasonably clear that she did not intend to sound so 'questionable', at best.

Ant.
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Old 09-09-2002, 09:15 PM   #117
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Just wanted to pop back into this thread. I went off on Ravenstar and indirectly implied that she was an idiot. I do apologize. That was wrong of me, and I should've either not posted, or at least waited until my anger subsided.

Anthony I think you gave a good, eloquent explanation of how "tragedies" are relative. Other tragedies and goings-on throughout the world are easy to overlook when there is something major going on in your backyard. For the past year it has been hard for many Americans, even the Americans who are well versed in world events, to look past the tragedy and backlash of Spetember 11. Terrorist acts the magnitude of 9-11 were an enormous shock to the people in the US, and it still is a shock, people are still sensitive and with the anniversary drawing near, some nerves are still raw. Like you said, it doesn't make what happened in NYC any more or less tragic than other acts of terror around the globe - the impact of what happened really is relative to the individual.

And sharky, sorry 'bout the gender mishap!
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Old 09-09-2002, 09:43 PM   #118
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all good sweeite!

Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
2-However to "shrug off" the taking of ANY INNOCENT LIFE -
-In the USA
or
Afganistan
or
Iraq
or

Austrailia
or
Canada makes me and nearly EVERYOTHER decent person angry.

And this is the point.
Take note: diamond made sense. This IS the point. But there is a flaw with this. maybe I'm thinking too highly of some of us but overall I think the FYM folks are a pretty worldly informed group of people. And unfortunately, that doesn't reflect most Americans. To most Americans, there is no world outside the U.S. After 9/11, instead of waking up and saying "Hmm...there are alot of people that don't like Americans. I wonder why that is." they said "Those bastards! America! We're the best! Where's my flag?" to the point where people who were turban-wearing Hindu worshipping Indians were at the receiving end of hate crimes because they "looked muslim" [whatever the hell that means].

One of the things that is pissing me off the most is this requim that the Seattle Symphony Orchestra organized in which all these countries' symphonies are going to play this requim at 8:46am to remember the dead. I'm not trying to say one death is more important than another but where was the Seattle Symphony Orchestra when 10,000 people died in an earthquake in Turkey, where were they when bin Laden bombed American embassies in Africa? Does that not count because it was in a country most Americans hadn't heard of?

Its time America looked in the mirror and see what it has become. I love living in NYC because its diverse and while we may not all get along in the city, we all respect each other. In NYC, most of us don't care if you're a minority or if two men walk down the street holding each other's hand or kissing. And its sad to say but I don't think that can be said of some places in this country.

Loopy said she's a New Yorker but more importantly an American. After last September, I'm equally proud to be both.
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Old 09-09-2002, 10:48 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally posted by sharky
all good sweeite!



Take note: diamond made sense. This IS the point. But there is a flaw with this. maybe I'm thinking too highly of some of us but overall I think the FYM folks are a pretty worldly informed group of people. And unfortunately, that doesn't reflect most Americans. To most Americans, there is no world outside the U.S. After 9/11, instead of waking up and saying "Hmm...there are alot of people that don't like Americans. I wonder why that is." they said "Those bastards! America! We're the best! Where's my flag?" to the point where people who were turban-wearing Hindu worshipping Indians were at the receiving end of hate crimes because they "looked muslim" [whatever the hell that means].

One of the things that is pissing me off the most is this requim that the Seattle Symphony Orchestra organized in which all these countries' symphonies are going to play this requim at 8:46am to remember the dead. I'm not trying to say one death is more important than another but where was the Seattle Symphony Orchestra when 10,000 people died in an earthquake in Turkey, where were they when bin Laden bombed American embassies in Africa? Does that not count because it was in a country most Americans hadn't heard of?

Its time America looked in the mirror and see what it has become. I love living in NYC because its diverse and while we may not all get along in the city, we all respect each other. In NYC, most of us don't care if you're a minority or if two men walk down the street holding each other's hand or kissing. And its sad to say but I don't think that can be said of some places in this country.

Loopy said she's a New Yorker but more importantly an American. After last September, I'm equally proud to be both.
Very well said Sharky. I completely understand what you are saying about alot of Americans not wondering "why" but instead were and still are saying "how dare you."

I also understand what you are saying about not seeing the world outside of the the US. I saw firsthand 2 instances of Hindus being singled out or harassed within one week of 9/11.

I saw one elderly Hindu man wearing a turban walk into a McDonald's and the whole place went quiet. He looked around like he wanted to cry and walked right back out the door. I wanted to yell at these people "he's a Hindu you idiots, do you ever read the papers or watch anything besides the Simpsons?" "Do you know the difference between a Hindu and a Muslim and if not, why?"

The second time was on the Saturday after 9/11 at an amusement park. There was a Hindu family of 8 or 9 poeple trying to enjoy themselves and all they got were stares and comments like "what are you doing here, go back where you came from." My sister and I got so disgusted by this, we finally walked up to them and told them we were sorry. I don't know if we were sorry for being American at that moment or sorry that a country that just lost 3000+ innocent people hadn't learned a thing about how to treat their fellow man, but we just felt like we had to say something.

Believe me, I am one American who has asked again and again, "why does everyone hate us." I know some of the reasons but I don't think alot of other American do, or at at the very least, they don't want to admit it.
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Old 09-09-2002, 11:02 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally posted by sharky and Bono's American Wife
the truth
!!!!

between what you both said, and the commercialism stemming from being able to make a huge profit with anything red, white, and blue, sums up the only things about 9/11 that piss me off. the worst part is, i'm sure this is what bin laden was hoping for all along. for us (america as a whole, certainly not anyone on the forum) to bury our head in the sand like an ostrich and not dare to think that, as for as horrible of a tragedy it was, that there may have been a lesson to be learnt.

i used to chat with a guy my age in pakistan back in 97/98. he was muslim, and it would've been interesting to hear what it's like now over there, and even his opinion on what happened.
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