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Old 11-05-2004, 11:29 AM   #76
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I agree that Christians are a strong and up and coming force and it's MEANT to be that way. It would be a nice day if all Christians could unite, like LDS people have always believed they should.
Scripture teaches us to be of one Spirit. If we all have Jesus at the center of our lives, we would naturally be more united. But a simple review of history will show you that this has not happened.

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Do these Christians, in your eyes, include JW's and LDS people? Because I know in the past that this just wasn't the case, even though it was totally incorrect.
This is probably better left for a different thread. There is obviously differences of opinion, from a theological point of view, on whether LDS are Christians.
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Old 11-05-2004, 11:31 AM   #77
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Scripture teaches us to be of one Spirit. If we all have Jesus at the center of our lives, we would naturally be more united. But a simple review of history will show you that this has not happened.



This is probably better left for a different thread. There is obviously differences of opinion, from a theological point of view, on whether LDS are Christians.
Well, there is NO question. We are. And we've always voted for our values and beliefs.
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Old 11-05-2004, 11:33 AM   #78
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Well, there is NO question. We are. And we've always voted for our values and beliefs.
"We are" what?

LDS are fairly united, if that is what you mean.
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Old 11-05-2004, 11:36 AM   #79
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"We are" what?

LDS are fairly united, if that is what you mean.
We are Christian. There is no room for debate. And yes, we have always been very united all over the earth.

I wonder how LDS people in other countries feel about Bush being reelected. Hmm. You don't seem to hear much from them.
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Old 11-05-2004, 11:40 AM   #80
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We are Christian. There is no room for debate. And yes, we have always been very united all over the earth.
Well, as I suggested, that is a topic better left to another thread. I know you are taught one thing. But there are significant theological differences between LDS and Protestant belief.
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Old 11-05-2004, 12:56 PM   #81
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He wasn't.

Step back and take a look at the broader principles involved.
yes he was, he directly compared incest to gays. The broader picture is equal rights and the question of discrimination.
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Old 11-05-2004, 12:58 PM   #82
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Well, as I suggested, that is a topic better left to another thread. I know you are taught one thing. But there are significant theological differences between LDS and Protestant belief.
You know I am taught one thing? What? That I'm Christian? We're not as different as you think. Different doesn't mean devoid and wrong. In fact, it could mean with more and even more correct.
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Old 11-05-2004, 01:09 PM   #83
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Marriage = 1 man + 1 woman

That is the way it's going to be, I don't care how many lawsuits are filed or how many parades are staged or how many .Org websites are set up, the concept of marriage is simple to grasp, 1 man + 1 woman.

Christians/Catholics are through with sitting at the back of the bus watching Hollywood and the Left hijacking family-values, our commencement of reclaiming America and making America what it once was took place on Tuesday.

If for some reason a person doesn't like what is happening to this Christian nation which is being reborn, if they don't like the fact that marriage is between 1 man and 1 woman, they are allowed to go and start their own country somewhere else. There are planes leaving America every hour on the hour, good luck in your new anything goes utopia.

Christians are done sitting at the back of the bus.
First of all repeating yourself using the very offensive "back of the bus" line is not going to make the crap analogy any more potent.

Second of all, one day homosexuals will be able to marry, just take a look at history. At one time people here owned slaves, people used the bible as it's justification, then they were freed. Once again people used the Bible there too. But then we still had segregation, you know when people really did "sit at the back of the bus", look down water hoses and face burning crosses. But believe me we have a long way to go. At one time in this country it was illegal for interratial marriages but that too is now gone.

Women voting, equality among races, etc. all of these issues were at one time being fought against by the majority. Often using "religion" as their justification. All of these issues have passed and are now part of everyday life just like gay marriage will someday.

Calling for your "Christian" army in the tone of which you do will divide true Christianity and will send it crumbling down on itself. You already have it divided by stressing the difference between Christian and Catholic. You don't speak for this Christian, and frankly I'm glad that you don't, because if you're driving please let me off at the next stop.
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Old 11-05-2004, 01:13 PM   #84
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Well, it's good to know that 100 million people will be suited up for a Holy War. The Christians vs....who? The evil Homosexuals, the Pagans, and the Heathens? I'll be sure to grab some popcorn for this show.
I think he meant the Jews, the Muslims, the Buddists, the Hindus and anyone else who is not "with them" and therefore "against them". But as my grandmother likes to remind me when I tell her my fiance is Jewish -- "Well, he can always convert."

As I start to think about this more, I think the two things that most concern me are 1) my perseption that this is government-sponsored bias [bigotry I believe but I know others feel that is too strong] and 2) that the government seems to be making laws based on these moral/religious issues. I love being a Catholic but I don't want the government telling my church what to do under any circumstances. I believe in gay marriage, but only civil marriage. I don't believe the goverment should force the Catholic church to perform gay ceremonies if the Catholic church doesn't want to. That being said, what if the Episcopal church decides to allow gay marriage recognized by their church, for example? We now have laws on the books that tell the church it can't do that. What about if Jewish rabbis decide to allow gay marriage? They can't do it. Or, if they do, a marriage in the church or temple will not be recognized by the government and therefore, the basic benefits of marriage will not be recognized.

There is a difference between a religious marriage and a civil marriage. I think these laws are worrisome because they are beginning to blur the line between government and religion. I don't want the government telling my church what to do and I don't want the church telling my government what to do.
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Old 11-05-2004, 01:15 PM   #85
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It is not noble and good to distance yourself from this GOP Catholic, alright? I know darn well that he doesn't think I'M Christan, but I am, I don't agree with this "all Christians are together and at the back of the bus" thing, but I'm not going to separate myself from him, either. That is JUST as negative and divisive as what he is doing.

P.S. church shouldn't tell gov't. what to do and mine never has...and as far as I can see church isn't telling them what to do now. But, PEOPLE ARE!!!! And some church is IN people!
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Old 11-05-2004, 01:31 PM   #86
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You know I am taught one thing? What? That I'm Christian? We're not as different as you think. Different doesn't mean devoid and wrong. In fact, it could mean with more and even more correct.
I know the difference between what the Bible says and what Mormons teach. The teachings conflict with each other. I know the difference. I made a point of learning the difference.
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Old 11-05-2004, 01:32 PM   #87
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It is not noble and good to distance yourself from this GOP Catholic, alright? I know darn well that he doesn't think I'M Christan, but I am, I don't agree with this "all Christians are together and at the back of the bus" thing, but I'm not going to separate myself from him, either. That is JUST as negative and divisive as what he is doing.

P.S. church shouldn't tell gov't. what to do and mine never has...and as far as I can see church isn't telling them what to do now. But, PEOPLE ARE!!!! And some church is IN people!
To the first part, I'm distancing myself like I would any bad influence. That's it.

To the second part, if people came out in droves to say non-Christians shouldn't be allowed to build places of worship, would that be OK? Should we make it law then? Believe me I know thousands of people who think Jews, Mormons, Muslims, etc are burning in hell. You say the Church isn't telling the government what to do, but these views are based soley on religion.

This is the same thing. People think homosexuality is a sin therefore they shouldn't have this right. Well as soon as that line is crossed the next step will be well your religion is a sin therefore you shouldn't have that right. It's a dangerous dangersous line. Thanks George for putting it up there with everything else.
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Old 11-05-2004, 01:32 PM   #88
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P.S. church shouldn't tell gov't. what to do and mine never has...and as far as I can see church isn't telling them what to do now. But, PEOPLE ARE!!!! And some church is IN people!
What about the archbishop who said he would not give communion to pro-choice candidates? What about the athiests who don't go to church but now live under a policy that was put on the books because of the churches? When you vote on whether a football stadium should be built with city taxes, you may use your faith to say "Well, I don't want the traffic in the area especially on Sunday near my church" or "It will bring jobs to the area, which is good for a poor and as a good Christian I look out for the poor." If you drop the Christian part, you can still make the argument for or against if you're an athiest.

When you vote on a gay marriage bill, why would an athiest support the ban? There is no way to take religion out of this issue, but you can vote on the stadium issue without using religion as a guide if you so wish. The problem is a very large majority of people who support the ban based their decision on what their churches told them.
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Old 11-05-2004, 01:34 PM   #89
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I know the difference between what the Bible says and what Mormons teach. The teachings conflict with each other. I know the difference. I made a point of learning the difference.
Nope. Ours does NOT conflict. YOURS actually diverges and sometimes is totally devoid of things, and sometimes is totally in conflict. I study the Bible, too, and I know what I have and know.

Really, the point is moot. Your verdict is wrong.

I am Christian.

And as a Christian I will say that I am not pleased with Bush, not many Christians around here are. BUT, Kerry was just NOT a better choice, in fact worse.
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Old 11-05-2004, 01:37 PM   #90
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To the first part, I'm distancing myself like I would any bad influence. That's it.

To the second part, if people came out in droves to say non-Christians shouldn't be allowed to build places of worship, would that be OK? Should we make it law then? Believe me I know thousands of people who think Jews, Mormons, Muslims, etc are burning in hell. You say the Church isn't telling the government what to do, but these views are based soley on religion.

This is the same thing. People think homosexuality is a sin therefore they shouldn't have this right. Well as soon as that line is crossed the next step will be well your religion is a sin therefore you shouldn't have that right. It's a dangerous dangersous line. Thanks George for putting it up there with everything else.
I totally agree that this shouldn't have been something to vote on. I'm offended by it and it's wrong, and I am a Christian. It's wrong. That should've never been there. It's really stupid, and frankly I don't see how in the heck they got on the ballot and what the big freakin' deal is. Like many have said, if you don't agree, just don't do it, or ignore it.
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