11 states vote on gay marriage - Page 22 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-19-2004, 07:27 AM   #316
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 24,974
Local Time: 01:05 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe


You may think I've never met a homosexual, and as a matter of fact I know one personally. He's a nice guy, and he doesn't fit society's perception that gays want intimacy from everyone from their own gender. However, he dreams of having a natural family one day, and he knows what he has to do in order to achieve that dream. I pray for him, and hope that he longs for that dream so much, that it turns his life around.
Does "society" really have that perception anymore? That is just a stereotype-there are just as many heterosexuals who want intimacy from everyone of the opposite gender, most likely far more.

By "natural family, what he has to do" do you mean he should marry a woman and have children, denying his preference? That would lead to quite a bit of pain for a woman and any children they might have. I also meant to say that that would be painful for him as well. There would be ways for him to have a family that I consider "natural" (whatever that means) with a man that he loved. There's also adoption, and there's nothing "unnatural" about that.

Maybe you could just pray for your friend to be happy and have inner peace, maybe that's all he wants from you.
__________________

__________________
MrsSpringsteen is offline  
Old 11-19-2004, 07:30 AM   #317
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,656
Local Time: 12:05 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen


Does "society" really have that perception anymore? That is just a stereotype-there are just as many heterosexuals who want intimacy from everyone of the opposite gender, most likely far more.

By "natural family, what he has to do" do you mean he should marry a woman and have children, denying his preference? That would lead to quite a bit of pain for a woman and any children they might have. There would be ways for him to have a family that I consider "natural" (whatever that means) with a man that he loved. There's also adoption, and there's nothing "unnatural" about that.

Maybe you could just pray for your friend to be happy and have inner peace, maybe that's all he wants from you.
__________________

__________________
BVS is offline  
Old 11-19-2004, 07:53 AM   #318
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Macfistowannabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,129
Local Time: 02:05 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by verte76


At one point, a few decades ago, being gay landed you in a psychiatric hospital. This is no longer true. Why? The APA dropped homosexuality from the mental illness list, I think in the '70's. I don't know when but it's definitely not in DSM IV, (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, Fourth Edition) which is the authoritative book on psychiatric diagnoses. If something isn't even in the damn text of mental illnesses, they're not going to "treat" it. You don't have to take my word for it, call up any medical school or psychology department at a university. They'll tell you that they do not treat homosexuality as it is not an illness.
So society has changed, because we let special interest groups have the final word. Bad move. Does that make it right? Does it change what it is?
__________________
Macfistowannabe is offline  
Old 11-19-2004, 07:59 AM   #319
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Macfistowannabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,129
Local Time: 02:05 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Renne
Congratulations. Do you've think you've immediately validated all your arguments just because you know someone who's gay? Guess what? Everyone knows someone who is gay. So flashing your "queer cred" like that is completely redundant.
Queer cred? And no, not everyone knows someone personally who's gay. Many of my friends haven't met a single gay man or woman. And what I said about this gay individual that I met had little basis for an argument. I plainly said that he doesn't meet a lot of people's perceptions of gays. However, just because I revealed his dream to have a naturally born family does not give any of you the basis for an argument.
__________________
Macfistowannabe is offline  
Old 11-19-2004, 08:28 AM   #320
War Child
 
Dutch Partygirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Dublin
Posts: 996
Local Time: 07:05 PM
However, just because I revealed his dream to have a naturally born family does not give any of you the basis for an argument.

That's true, but you followed it with a little sentence saying 'what he has to do' and that's what the argument is about. This person doesn't HAVE to do anything like that at all. It's his choice if he wants to deny his preference.
__________________
Dutch Partygirl is offline  
Old 11-19-2004, 08:35 AM   #321
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,474
Local Time: 01:05 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
Queer cred? And no, not everyone knows someone personally who's gay. Many of my friends haven't met a single gay man or woman. And what I said about this gay individual that I met had little basis for an argument. I plainly said that he doesn't meet a lot of people's perceptions of gays. However, just because I revealed his dream to have a naturally born family does not give any of you the basis for an argument.

i bet you they do know gay people, they just don't know it, because most gay people feel the need to step back into the closet among the devoutly religious. not defending that instinct, but you can see where it comes from.

i, too, dream of a naturally born family. but i suppose i'd imagine that too if i were straight and sterile or my wife were infertile. there are lots of people who are unable to have naturally born families, and they're not all gay.

instead, once my life is sufficiently stable and i've partnered up for life, i'm planning on adopting.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 11-19-2004, 08:43 AM   #322
Acrobat
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Queen Lurker
Posts: 323
Local Time: 06:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
So society has changed, because we let special interest groups have the final word. Bad move. Does that make it right? Does it change what it is?
That's offensive. Why is it a bad move that being gay is no longer considered a mental illness? Was there any solid proof that being gay was a mental illness in the first place, or was this simply a religious assertion?

What special interests groups are you referring to?
__________________
adam's_mistress is offline  
Old 11-19-2004, 08:57 AM   #323
Blue Crack Addict
 
verte76's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: hoping for changes
Posts: 23,331
Local Time: 06:05 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
So society has changed, because we let special interest groups have the final word. Bad move. Does that make it right? Does it change what it is?
No, it's not changes in society, it's changes in *science*. Modern psychiatry is based on experimental science, not morality. It's a healthy move in the right direction. Slapping someone in a psychiatric ward based on sexual preference isn't where it's at. They used to have a more subjective definition of "not fitting in with society". They've dropped this, and I'm glad. It's too vague, and unless there's a concrete way to "treat" this, with a specific therapy technique, to heck with it. Morality is for the churches and other religious institutions, not for science.
__________________
verte76 is offline  
Old 11-19-2004, 09:09 AM   #324
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Macfistowannabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,129
Local Time: 02:05 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by verte76


No, it's not changes in society, it's changes in *science*. Modern psychiatry is based on experimental science, not morality. It's a healthy move in the right direction. Slapping someone in a psychiatric ward based on sexual preference isn't where it's at. They used to have a more subjective definition of "not fitting in with society". They've dropped this, and I'm glad. It's too vague, and unless there's a concrete way to "treat" this, with a specific therapy technique, to heck with it. Morality is for the churches and other religious institutions, not for science.
Neither science or religion can compare to God's design. He created us differently, but we were created so that we can serve him. For any of you who were offended by my stance on society, I apologize, but I think we owe the gay community the love that Jesus would give them, but love without truth isn't really love at all.
__________________
Macfistowannabe is offline  
Old 11-19-2004, 09:14 AM   #325
Blue Crack Addict
 
verte76's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: hoping for changes
Posts: 23,331
Local Time: 06:05 PM
Scientists don't pretend to understand God's designs. But the whole faith thing is a matter of faith, not science. You can't talk about "treatment" of homosexuality. When you do, you're dragging scientists into the morality business where they don't belong. I agree that science can't penetrate God's business, but ultimately, can any human being? I say no. God has to be the judge here, not any of us.
__________________
verte76 is offline  
Old 11-19-2004, 09:18 AM   #326
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Macfistowannabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,129
Local Time: 02:05 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by verte76
Scientists don't pretend to understand God's designs. But the whole faith thing is a matter of faith, not science. You can't talk about "treatment" of homosexuality. When you do, you're dragging scientists into the morality business where they don't belong. I agree that science can't penetrate God's business, but ultimately, can any human being? I say no. God has to be the judge here, not any of us.
I don't believe in science playing God.
__________________
Macfistowannabe is offline  
Old 11-19-2004, 09:35 AM   #327
Blue Crack Addict
 
verte76's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: hoping for changes
Posts: 23,331
Local Time: 06:05 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
I don't believe in science playing God.
Neither do I. That's exactly why scientists don't treat gays. If you did, you'd be allowing them to play God.
__________________
verte76 is offline  
Old 11-19-2004, 09:40 AM   #328
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 10:05 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by verte76
No, it's not changes in society, it's changes in *science*.
I think we are fooling ourselves if we believe that societal influences play no part in science or in what science will say or is allowed to say.
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 11-19-2004, 09:49 AM   #329
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Macfistowannabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,129
Local Time: 02:05 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by verte76


Neither do I. That's exactly why scientists don't treat gays. If you did, you'd be allowing them to play God.
Interesting perspective. We will probably never know how to define homosexuality, since it is such a partisan issue.
__________________
Macfistowannabe is offline  
Old 11-19-2004, 09:55 AM   #330
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,474
Local Time: 01:05 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


I think we are fooling ourselves if we believe that societal influences play no part in science or in what science will say or is allowed to say.
absolutely.

and we are fooling ourselves if we believe that society influences play no part in the interpretation of Scripture, or in how it was written down in the first place.
__________________

__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:05 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com