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Old 11-12-2004, 09:35 AM   #196
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Old 11-12-2004, 10:48 AM   #197
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
because 5 year old boys and pigs are unable to consent to an adult relationship. and these constant comparisons between homosexuality and bestiality and pedophilia (the latter two of which are crimes, precisely because they comprise an abusive relationship between adults and either animals or children) are offensive in the extreme.

so, let's have a beer and talk.
Defining marriage as an art or some other baloney is, in my opinion, political correctness gone mad. How are we supposed to raise kids the right way if we allow the far-left to redefine marriage? I'm sure that most of us would dislike the thought of any of our children becoming homosexuals, so why are we playing with fire?
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Old 11-12-2004, 10:51 AM   #198
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Please read through your posts before you hit the "submit reply" button and consider how it may offend others.
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Old 11-12-2004, 10:53 AM   #199
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I did say it was just an opinion, and if I offended you with it, I don't know how, besides... having a different view? Ehh... nevermind.
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Old 11-12-2004, 10:58 AM   #200
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
I'm sure that most of us would dislike the thought of any of our children becoming homosexuals, so why are we playing with fire?
Excuse me??? Please stop projecting your homophobic beliefs onto "most of us."
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Old 11-12-2004, 10:58 AM   #201
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Normal

Perhaps one can stop to think how it would offend any gay people here...just a thought.

I was raised by two straight people in an unhappy and dysfunctional marriage. I would have rather had two gay people raising me in a more appropriate and loving way. That wouldn't have "turned me gay" either.

The "right way" to raise kids is with LOVE , with a loving relationship between two people as the foundation.
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Old 11-12-2004, 10:59 AM   #202
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Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
Defining marriage as an art or some other baloney is, in my opinion, political correctness gone mad. How are we supposed to raise kids the right way if we allow the far-left to redefine marriage? I'm sure that most of us would dislike the thought of any of our children becoming homosexuals, so why are we playing with fire?
Please, speak for yourself. Your "right way" is just that...yours.

If one of my kids told me they were gay, my main concern would be protecting them from people who equate homosexuality with sleeping with animals and small children.

I don't care who my children choose to love as long as they are good people who love and respect them. Gay or straight, my love for my children will never change.
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Old 11-12-2004, 11:05 AM   #203
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Originally posted by joyfulgirl


Excuse me??? Please stop projecting your homophobic beliefs onto "most of us."
Having a traditional belief system doesn't make me a homophobe. I've heard liberal people say the exact same thing - they wouldn't prefer that their children would become gay. I'm not saying you should love them any less, but in order to protect my future children from a moral drought, I supported the ban on gay marriage.
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Old 11-12-2004, 11:09 AM   #204
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Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
Defining marriage as an art or some other baloney is, in my opinion, political correctness gone mad. How are we supposed to raise kids the right way if we allow the far-left to redefine marriage? I'm sure that most of us would dislike the thought of any of our children becoming homosexuals, so why are we playing with fire?

marriage is an art? maybe a couple staying committed to each other forever is an art (as i'm sure both hetero and homosexuals will attest to ... i'm too young to offer an insight). marriage is a contract. it is firstly legal, and then cultural and religious.

you've also invited criticism with the last sentence, but i think it's less pernicious than it might be read. i see no malice in your statement, just naivete. no one "becomes" homosexual. it's something you are, and the attraction you feel towards members of your same gender arrive at exactly the same time as do heterosexual attractions (the onset of puberty). yes, homosexuality is abnormal, but it is a 100% naturally occurring abnormality akin to being left-handed.

you're right, i don't think any parent would want their child to be gay, mostly because of how much more difficult life is, as well as the very natural tendency to want your children to follow in the same path you did.

finally, common sense would tell us that the best way to "raise kids the right way" would be to have two good, loving parents. but this isn't always the case. i'd rather have one good parent than 2 bad ones. i'd rather have 2 good gay parents than 2 bad straight ones. that aside, it's those kinds of statements that drive me (and many on the left) nuts. there's a right way? who's right way? who gets to determine what works best for all kids? who knows best? you simply can't assert that there's a best way, and then all other ways. life is slippery, life is messy, life doesn't have tidy corners and happy endings. different strokes for different folks. there is no best way, there's only the way that's best for you.

and stop to consider the legal obstacles alone a gay couple must jump through when adopting children (let alone the social norms they must navigate). if that child receives the same dedication from his/her gay parents, what a lucky kid that will be.
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Old 11-12-2004, 11:12 AM   #205
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Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe

Having a traditional belief system doesn't make me a homophobe. I've heard liberal people say the exact same thing - they wouldn't prefer that their children would become gay. I'm not saying you should love them any less, but in order to protect my future children from a moral drought, I supported the ban on gay marriage.

moral drought? it seems to be that encouraging monogamy and stability -- particularly amongst people stereotyped to be highly promiscuous, drug-taking, clubbers -- is precisely the moral thing to do. let's give people the tools they need to create the kinds of relationships that benefit everyone.
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Old 11-12-2004, 11:17 AM   #206
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If I were going to have children, the thought "I hope they won't be gay" would never enter my consciousness. Even though my gay friends certainly have difficulties, they live happy lives nonetheless.
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Old 11-12-2004, 11:19 AM   #207
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511



marriage is an art? maybe a couple staying committed to each other forever is an art (as i'm sure both hetero and homosexuals will attest to ... i'm too young to offer an insight). marriage is a contract. it is firstly legal, and then cultural and religious.
Wesley Clark defined marriage as an art. It didn't drive me nuts, but it might've caused me to think less of him.

Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511


you're right, i don't think any parent would want their child to be gay, mostly because of how much more difficult life is, as well as the very natural tendency to want your children to follow in the same path you did.
And for saying this, I got a lot of criticism, surprisingly.

Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511


finally, common sense would tell us that the best way to "raise kids the right way" would be to have two good, loving parents. but this isn't always the case. i'd rather have one good parent than 2 bad ones. i'd rather have 2 good gay parents than 2 bad straight ones. that aside, it's those kinds of statements that drive me (and many on the left) nuts.
I certainly understand your view that you would rather be raised by good gay parents rather than bad straight parents, and in many ways I agree with you. I must define what I believe the right way is: Loving, caring, attentive, god-fearing, and moral.
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Old 11-12-2004, 11:28 AM   #208
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe


I must define what I believe the right way is: Loving, caring, attentive, god-fearing, and moral.

how are these things incompatable with either gay marriage or gay families?

also, and this may be opening up a can of worms here, but why do so many people use the word "believe" rather than "think." the president does this all the time. belief seems like you're repeating something that has been handed down to you, whereas thinking is a much more active process.

this is a general question, not meant specifically for Macfistowannabe. any takers?

or maybe i could start a new thread with this one ... thought vs. belief.
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Old 11-12-2004, 11:29 AM   #209
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God-fearing.
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Old 11-12-2004, 11:31 AM   #210
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Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
God-fearing.

so an atheist cannot raise children the "right" way? and gay people cannot be God-fearing?

i don't go to church, though i do believe in god. i also don't fear god. i find the thought of an infinite that i am connected to empowering and awe-inspiring, but i don't fear that. if anything, belief in God strikes me as the opposite of fear.
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