10000 ex Soldiers recalled to active service because of wars in Iraq and Afghanistan - U2 Feedback

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Old 07-02-2004, 05:45 AM   #1
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10000 ex Soldiers recalled to active service because of wars in Iraq and Afghanistan

According to tagesschau 10000 ex soldiers got allready a letter, out of a list of 110.000 men.
So ~10% of the military reserve are in use now.

Statement from the Pentagon:
"It's a management tool which we've always had available to augment our forces when we need additional personnel in a time of war"

Eric Miller, former US Army Captain , Walnut Creek / USA
"I'm a former US Army Captain who served a total of five years and incurred an eight year IRR obligation when I left the service shortly after the first gulf war. As a cadet when I was signing various contract papers, I was clearly told that the IRR recall provision would be used only in a WW III type event. As far as I am aware, the first use of the IRR recall was in the first gulf war. Knowing this unspoken covenant had been breached by the first president Bush and seeing its disruptive effect on the lives of my brothers, I was hugely relieved when my IRR obligation time recently ran out.

Word will get around regarding the liberal use of what was originally intended as a means to recall soldiers in the event of dire need. The Army has already taken stop loss action, preventing soldiers serving in Iraq from coming home after their contracted obligation is served. Under the leadership of the Bush presidents, the army is developing a Hotel California reputation - you can check out any time you like, but you can never leave. This abuse of the spirit of military service contracts, although legal, undermines the long-term security of the US by making recruiting quality soldiers and officers more difficult."
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Old 07-02-2004, 10:11 AM   #2
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Old 07-02-2004, 08:28 PM   #3
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Old 07-02-2004, 08:46 PM   #4
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No problem. Just start the draft in December. Last term anyways.
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Old 07-08-2004, 10:02 AM   #5
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They claim that a storage of men is not the problem, it's a shortage of SKILLED people and that's why they are dipping back into the people who have already been trained. Personally I disagree with this very much. I also hope they don't start the draft again.
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Old 07-08-2004, 10:47 AM   #6
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There will be no draft, the IRR is made up of people who still have time on their 8 year contract, the unfortunate fact is that a number of these people are poorer soldiers who were essentially shipped out to finish their time in a reserve role. The US army is down in numbers and it needs more troops, I have no doubt that over time they can fill the gaps through recruitment. A draft is totally out of the question, it does absolutely no good for anybody - you get people in the army that have no will to be there and your morale sinks faster than the titanic, it will be just like the late 70's post Vietnam except there will just be terrorist attack after terrorist attack with no way to stop them. Critical lesson of Vietnam was to use a volunteer force because a draft creates serious divisions at home and destroys the effectiveness of your troops. The only person that I have seen that should support a draft is Michael Moore, I mean F 9/11 makes a point that poor ghetto blacks are the ones fighting wars for the rich therefore he logically should support a universal draft that takes men (and women of course) from all walks of life into the army.
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Old 07-11-2004, 06:09 PM   #7
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This is one subject that I support the GOP on 100%. A draft would be a terrible idea, not only in terms of military efficiency, but in terms of military morale. The only reason that Democrats even bring this subject up is to be contrary. "Poor blacks" are fighting all the wars? Try "poor people" in general, but I think that this is only really an incidental connection. There is a correlation between a lower education level and lower income levels, yes, but I tend to think that those who have a statistically lower education level are the ones who tend to join the military, not just "poor people."

And, for the record, I don't mean for "lower education level" to a derogatory comment. Yes, I'm sure that some people in the military really are as stupid as can be intellectually, but make up for it in being a good soldier, but that there are also people of perfectly fine intellect who might be taking advantage of the college money and will get educated afterwards.

It should be noted, I believe, that those with higher education levels who join the military also get automatically promoted to officer-level positions anyway upon enlistment. So, yeah...that's probably why the "visible" part of the military looks so "poor."

But it also doesn't help that the military culture looks to be highly misogynist and homophobic from the outside here. Who would want to join that? I certainly wouldn't. They certainly have their military abilities down; they just need to work on the professionalism (if it so happens to exist :P ).

This should be winding down in the next couple years, if not by the end of 2005. I also believe that Bush has learned his lesson, and won't be provoking another multi-front war until Afghanistan and Iraq are finished.

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Old 07-12-2004, 08:35 AM   #8
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Still everyone says, the draft is coming back next year. Neither idiot candidate will admit to this right now in fear of losing votes. My paper says, come January, whichever buckethead fool is elected will get on TV and make a sorrowful speech about how it wasn't wanted but couldn't be avoided and that all men AND women 18-26 will be forced to serve 2 years in the national defense in some form. It's already planned, they just won't tell you yet
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Old 07-12-2004, 09:26 AM   #9
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A draft is not going to happen, there is no reason for it to occur and I honestly don't think that political leaders would be stupid enough to scap the volunteer military and disregard the lessons of Vietnam. If they make the proper reforms in terms of avoiding stop-loss (which is a fuck up as it stands) and get on with redefining the military then there is no reason to think they would need to make such a blunder as to create a draft.

Ignoring how utterly disasterous a draft would be in modern warfare does anybody think that Michael Moore would support it? I mean the guy has a clear contention in Farenheit 9/11 that all war is fought by the poor (and black, obviously) shouldnt he support a move that enlists everybody regardless of social position?
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Old 07-12-2004, 09:41 AM   #10
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Who cares if Micheal Moore would support it? Yes a draft would be a disastrous. But the fact is that our military is being stretched far too thin as we speak. I know men who are in their 50's with kids out of college that were asked to re-inlist and are in Iraq right now. That's ridiculous. And from what I've heard recruitment numbers aren't looking good. I think if we keep this pace up, we can last with the men we have but it puts us in a very vulnerable place. And if Bush is reelected hopefully he's smart enough not to provoke another "terrorism" "WMD" front again. It just goes to show how poorly this war was planned, and it puts us in a very vulnerable position in the next few years. We are more vulnerable now then before Iraq, which is absolutely ironic given the reasonings we went in to Iraq.
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Old 07-12-2004, 09:58 AM   #11
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If they keep forcing people who have gotten out back in, and stopping people from getting out when their times comes, who would want to enlist? I still believe it's a dirty little plan up their sleeves and will happen next year, with much fake regret on their faces, and much patriotic rhetoric to cheer us on. No, I don't think most people will approve or accept it. But they don't care.
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Old 07-12-2004, 10:23 AM   #12
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fighting terrorism millitarily does not require the vast numbers nation building does, when it comes to Afghanistan style operations of hunting down terrorists you really need the technological edge for your war, a strong human intelligence on the ground compounded with a lot of signals intellgence, the manpower on the ground needs to be ready to go and elite, special forces operators, rangers etc. nation building is what sucks in troops and the only way to do it effectively is with multinational forces. The US needs to get proper help and support from allies in training the Iraqi security forces properly. If they rush training too much then they do risk significant infiltration and will only create more problems in the long run.

To Clarify, if hypothetically Musharraff was toppled in a coup deta't tommorrow by Islamist elements within the country and they found themselves in possession of nuclear weapons then I think that the US would be able to fight a war there by expanding an Afghan theatre of operations outwards, a neccissary war such as that can be fought however the capacity to resore order within a given country postwar is diminished because of the long and tedious nature of nation reconstruction.
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Old 07-12-2004, 01:51 PM   #13
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A_Wanderer:
But of course invading Afghanistan and Iraq without Nationbuilding would be a catastrophe in a Fight against Terrorism if you look at the long-term consequences.

And you're right, the US needs the help of its allies and i'm sure they could get it if the US government would have behaved different in the last years.
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Old 07-13-2004, 01:51 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by BluberryPoptart
Still everyone says, the draft is coming back next year. Neither idiot candidate will admit to this right now in fear of losing votes. My paper says, come January, whichever buckethead fool is elected will get on TV and make a sorrowful speech about how it wasn't wanted but couldn't be avoided and that all men AND women 18-26 will be forced to serve 2 years in the national defense in some form. It's already planned, they just won't tell you yet
Out of curiosity, what is your source for that information? I certainly haven't seen any evidence that "everyone" expects a return of the draft.
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Old 07-16-2004, 04:29 PM   #15
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Oh, no links and sources and footnotes, just all the real people I hear talking, especially terrified teenage boys.
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