U2 and Bon Jovi: Separated at birth?

[mmmBono]

Okay, so maybe it's not a hundred times in a row, but it feels like it! Thanks for the sympathy!

Autumn You've made some good points in this thread, too. Keep fighting the good fight!

Hugs right back at ya! I feel for you...I really do!

 

[mmmBono]

Noooooooo. Short do, like Bono in Popmart. Or so I've been told.

Yep...anitram's right...the mohawk is gone...and he's growing it back in.
Quite like Bono's in Popmart is right

 

[jick]

Excuse ME?
Vedder retired?
You must be living under a fookin rock. Pearl Jam has a new album coming out.
Eddie was a surfer before he was in Pearl Jam. And has kept doing it over the years.
And comparing Eddie to Vanilla Ice is as fucking hilarious as you comparing Bono and U2 to Bon fucking Jovi.

Oh I'm sorry! I guess I'm just not a Pearl Jam fan. I do like some of their songs like Yellow Leadbetter. I also like their cover of Last Kiss.

Cheers,

J
The King Of POP

 

[jick]

Oooookay.
I like substance, my dear. I find alot more substance in U2's, Pearl Jam's, REM's music. Blow Job's music is empty. No soul. No feeling. And it's hilarious how they hire other people to write their songs. This is something that you will never EVER see Eddie do.
I can see this is just when it comes to discussing anything with you.

You are entitled to your opinion. But one person's opinion can be different from the other's. I do agree that U2's music has more substance than Bon Jovi's music, but there are those who would disagree.

Now, Eddie would never hire anyone to write his songs. But hiring someone to writing songs is kinda like doing covers. Pearl Jam made an awesome cover of Last Kiss. They also covered Another Brick In The Wall. Artists don't necessarily have to use their own songs to be great.

Cheers,

J
The King Of POP

 

[jick]

Sorry, but I have to correct you here: U2 did write the song (remember, the song is the musical compositon, too). Salman Rushdie wrote the lyrics - and only the lyrics. Big difference. Sorry to point out that you were wrong - and, yes, completely wrong - but the distinction had to be made.

I wouldn't believe Bon Jovi didn't have any musical or lyrical contribution to the Crush album. Of course I won't buy the album just to prove you wrong. Maybe I'll do a search online once I find time. But nevertheless, even if U2 did not write the song or the melody such as songs they cover, they can just perform it with as much passion as the original artist. It's not just how your write the song but how you make it yours. U2 and Bon Jovi have both covered "Helter Skelter" and made it their own. Bon Jovi brought the house down in the Dublin stadium closing with a cover of "One" by U2. Bon Jovi filled a stadium in Dublin, no easy task considering how discerning the Irish tastes are. Dublinners also use U2 as the measuring stick for visiting rock bands, and Bon Jovi did pass with flying colors when they visited Dublin City! Imagine the spectacle, a great rock band like Bon Jovi doing a cover of U2's "One" in front of 50,000 screaming Irish fans. That must be a sight to behold!

Cheers,

J
The King Of POP

 

[Whats The Story?]

After that last post, I've decided to take everything Jick says with a pinch of salt. "Imagine the spectacle of a great rock band like Bon Jovi" "That must be a sight to behold!"

 

[jick]

EXACTLY! And there's a huge difference between having some hack pop songwriter write your songs because you want to appeal to the brainless N'Sync and Brittney lovers and having an acclaimed author like Rushdie write lyrics for one of your songs because you admire his work.

Blow Jovi... Thanks, mmmBono, that was great!

A big difference, an acclaimed author is known for writing books not songs, and a songwriter is known for writing songs not books. You can rest asssured that if a basketball game were on the line and someone had to shoot a free throw to win the game, I would pick Larry Bird any day over Joe Montana. Rushdie writing a song is like having Joe Montana going for a basketball free throw to save you life. It's not his area of expertise.

Cheers,

J
The King Of POP

 

[jick]

ummm, no
Pearl Jam will need more than one hit album (because if you want to join the elite commercial success does count) to join the likes of U2, Rolling Stones etc.

Pearl Jam wrote TEN then went downhill into oblivion until a brief comeback with Last Kiss. Kinda like how Radiohead went downhill after Creep.

Cheers,

J
The King Of POP

 

[Michael Griffiths]

I wouldn't believe Bon Jovi didn't have any musical or lyrical contribution to the Crush album. Of course I won't buy the album just to prove you wrong. Maybe I'll do a search online once I find time. But nevertheless, even if U2 did not write the song or the melody such as songs they cover, they can just perform it with as much passion as the original artist. It's not just how your write the song but how you make it yours. U2 and Bon Jovi have both covered "Helter Skelter" and made it their own. Bon Jovi brought the house down in the Dublin stadium closing with a cover of "One" by U2. Bon Jovi filled a stadium in Dublin, no easy task considering how discerning the Irish tastes are. Dublinners also use U2 as the measuring stick for visiting rock bands, and Bon Jovi did pass with flying colors when they visited Dublin City! Imagine the spectacle, a great rock band like Bon Jovi doing a cover of U2's "One" in front of 50,000 screaming Irish fans. That must be a sight to behold!

Cheers,

J
The King Of POP

I wasn't talking about Bon Jovi or the Crush album. I was simply correcting you on your statement that U2 didn't write 'The Ground Beneath Her Feet' - since that statement is in fact false.

As for a bands covering songs and making them their own, I completely agree with you - but that's a totally separate issue.

As far as Bon Jovi covering 'One' in front of a 50, 000 Irish fans, good for them. That's a nice story, but also a totally separate issue. Bon Jovi and his band are a nice bunch of guys, I'm sure (probably in that kind of older brother, American frat boy kind of way - you know, that just want to sit down, have a Bud, and watch the game with kind of way...) - but as for their music, it's pretty one-dimensional for me. Bon Jovi even said how much he liked Bono's performance on Achtung Baby. He went on to say how he didn't "care for" Pop. Fair enough. Everyone has their own tastes. It really doesn't surprise me that he wouldn't like Pop, and nor do I care. Each to their own, right?

 

[jick]

You seem to have no problems with bands selling out to achieve chart success. I do. If you're a rock band, you don't get people to come into the studio and write your songs for you. If you do that, you cease to be a rock band and you're just pop fodder like most of everything else in the charts. Do you think Zeppelin, The Who, The Stones etc would ever have considered doing that? Even if thye lost their popularity? No way.

Bono's biggest idols are Frank Sinatra and Elvis. They didn't write their own songs you know. Frank Sinatra will forever be associated with My Way which he did not write. In Bono's introduction to the Psalms book of the Bible he said something like this: "There are some who say that many of the Psalms were not written by King David. But that doesn't matter. I didn't pay to watch Creator/Weiss but I paid to watch Elvis." Bono said this because he was saying King David was the first rock star of the Bible. But you all seem to make a big deal out of a few Bon Jovi songs. Majority of Bon Jovi's song are still written by them, definitely at least 95% of those songs. So maybe in some exceptional cases, Bon Jovi is not like U2 in not writing their own songs, but at least they are just like Bono's role models. Yet another U2-Bon Jovi connection uncovered!

Cheers,

J
The King Of POP

 

[walkon11]

Pearl Jam wrote TEN then went downhill into oblivion until a brief comeback with Last Kiss. Kinda like how Radiohead went downhill after Creep.

Cheers,

J
The King Of POP

Well, that has to be the most idiotic statement of the day. I don't even want an explaination.

 

[jick]

Pearl Jam are definitely in the league of The Who, as far as commercial success goes.
Artistically, IMHO they'd need a few more great albums to be regarded in the same league as the bands above.

However, PJ are definitely one of the greatest bands around, and are definitely a tough contender to U2, as to who's the greatest live-band on the planet

I've seen Peal Jam live here in my country. They are bullsh*tters! In the middle of one song, Vedder said "this is the best audience we have ever played to." That is just a cheesy line to say, typical of rock wannabes who are plastic. It's a cliche that characterizes groups who sell out. Kinda like how some bands say "you know we played here last night but I like tonight's audience better - you're louder." I have only seen one U2 concert, but have seen many other U2 concert videos, original and bootlegged -- and not once did I see u2 try to bullsh*t the crowd. Also, Pearl Jam didn't connect quite as well as U2 did to the crowd. Bono connecting to the crowd is a sight to behold.

Cheers,

J
The King Of POP

 

[Whats The Story?]

So Bono's idols as you put it didn't write their own songs. Wow. What a revelation. BUT-we are talking about Bono's ban in comparison to Bon Jovi not Bono's "idols", and the simple fact is that U2 do not let other people write their songs for them. Whether it is 5% or 75% of a band's songs written for them by an outside party doesn't matter, its the principle involved, ie selling out.

 

[jick]

pretty one-dimensional for me. Bon Jovi even said how much he liked Bono's performance on Achtung Baby. He went on to say how he didn't "care for" Pop. Fair enough. Everyone has their own tastes. It really doesn't surprise me that he wouldn't like Pop, and nor do I care. Each to their own, right?

Ok so U2 did not write the lyrics to The Ground Beneath Her Feet. But thanks for pointing out Bon Jovi's quote - all their members are big big fans of U2. Bon Jovi himself even said words to that effect in his website.

Cheers,

J
The King Of POP

 

[jick]

So Bono's idols as you put it didn't write their own songs. Wow. What a revelation. BUT-we are talking about Bono's ban in comparison to Bon Jovi not Bono's "idols", and the simple fact is that U2 do not let other people write their songs for them. Whether it is 5% or 75% of a band's songs written for them by an outside party doesn't matter, its the principle involved, ie selling out.

Well, U2 didn't write the lyrics to The Ground Beneath Her Feet. So I'd guess U2 have probably 150 songs by now... so that would be 99% of their songs only are original. And if you want to talk about principles, U2 aren't poster boys themselves. They landed a record contract by playing two Ramones songs and claiming it was their own composition. Now that's iffy principles to me. So both U2 and Bon Jovi are not poster boys for having the most morally upright songwriting principles, but more than anything else, that just proves their similarities.

Cheers,

J
The King Of POP

 

[Michael Griffiths]

Ok so U2 did not write the lyrics to The Ground Beneath Her Feet. But thanks for pointing out Bon Jovi's quote - all their members are big big fans of U2. Bon Jovi himself even said words to that effect in his website.

Cheers,

J
The King Of POP

Of course they're big fans of U2! What big band isn't? In fact, I would venture to say that most pop/rock acts are big U2 fans. U2 are so highly respected among their peers, it's almost funny. It's just another testament to their longevity and relevancy, among both artists and fans alike. I'm sure Bon Jovi and U2 are mates, too. Good for them! Do you think Bono Jovi like Bjork or, say, Radiohead? Probably not, but maybe I'm just being extremely judgemental. You see, there is more to life than over-the top machismo. In America, it seems that is the way to go as far as the mainstream is concerned, and it's such a pity.

By the way, Radiohead's best work came sooo long after 'Creep' - though 'Creep' did pave the way for it. Have you ever actually ever sat down and listened to a little ditty called 'Fake Plastic Trees' and not felt something? Just curious.

 

[Whats The Story?]

Well, U2 didn't write the lyrics to The Ground Beneath Her Feet. So I'd guess U2 have probably 150 songs by now... so that would be 99% of their songs only are original. And if you want to talk about principles, U2 aren't poster boys themselves. They landed a record contract by playing two Ramones songs and claiming it was their own composition. Now that's iffy principles to me. So both U2 and Bon Jovi are not poster boys for having the most morally upright songwriting principles, but more than anything else, that just proves their similarities.

Cheers,

J
The King Of POP

No thats bull because U2 would never have claimed those songs were their own in any other context, they were pretty desperate for a break in the music industry. Hence why you don't see U2 trying to pass those Ramones songs off as their own on any albums. The Ground Beneath Her Feet was a unique song because it wasn't written in a cynical manner for chart success by a professional pop songwriter, but by an author. U2 showed their creativity by turning his words into a song. Also in case you haven't noticed it isn't particularly commercia-sounding either, it was a one-off collabaration between friends. This is completely different from the Bon Jovi situation and you know it, but you're too stubborn to back down.

 

[shaun vox]

bon jovi sux ok. their new song is shit if you'r a girl and like them them ok but if you'r a guy then dude you got some problems.
there is not one song from bon jovi that i can stand. oh did is say how much bon jovie suxxxxxxxxxxxxx.

 

[Hawkmoon1021]

I've seen Peal Jam live here in my country. They are bullsh*tters! In the middle of one song, Vedder said "this is the best audience we have ever played to." That is just a cheesy line to say, typical of rock wannabes who are plastic.

Pearl Jam cheesy? Bon Jovi has Velveeta running through their veins. Richie Samboring did Snapple TV commercials a few years back. That is so Rock & Roll. Are PJ typical rock wannabe's when they took on ticketmaster and don't make videos? BJ wouldn't even exsist without MTV. Plus, did you ever hear BJ talk on stage? I did. (Not by choice) All of the sudden he thinks he is Bruce Springsteen. It's laughable how contrived he is. The U2 comparison is also ridiculous. BJ had I hit song in the US in the last 10 years & it's just a remake of one one of their 80's (s)hits basically, the rest of their stuff tanked, as will this new turd they drop. Let's see how U2's Best Of sells in comparison to the latest BJ.

 

[Michael Griffiths]

Just a neet little review from 1987 on The Joshua Tree - note the Bon Jovi reference just past the middle, towards the end...

Robert Hilburn in the LA Times

In "The Joshua Tree," U2 fills in the sketches with sometimes breathtaking signs of growth. The music -- provided by guitarist-keyboardist Dave Evans (The Edge), bassist Adam Clayton and drummer Larry Mullen -- is more tailored and assured as it expands on the moody textures of songs like "Bad" and reaches out with great effect for new, bluesy touches.
Bono Hewson's lyrics are also more consistently focused and eloquently designed than in past albums, and his singing underscores the band's expressions of disillusionment and hope with new-found power and passion. The songs are about faith, but - as suggested by such titles as "Where the Streets Have No Name" and "I Still Haven't Found What I'm Searching For" -- they aren't tidy statements of rejoicing.
Biblical images abound -- from the album title to lines like "In the locust wind comes a rattle and hum / Jacob wrestled the angel and the angel was overcome" -- but there isn't the relentless dogma that many rock observers found offensive in Dylan's "Slow Train Coming." These are human tales of reaching for your ideals while battling against moments of doubt and despair: drug addiction ("Running to Stand Still"), the death of a friend ("One Tree Hill"), government terrorism ("Mothers of the Disappeared") and social injustice ("Red Hill Mining Town").
While U2 songs frequently comment on external forces (as in an Irishman's perspective on the contradictions in American society), the heart of the LP is concerned with individual resolve. In the LP's opening lines, Hewson describes the inner battle to maintain faith and ideals: "I want to run / I want to hide / I want to tear down the walls / That hold me inside / I want to reach out / And touch the flame / Where the streets have no name."
In a time when the rock 'n' roll world feasts on the banality of such acts as Bon Jovi, "The Joshua Tree" is asking more of mainstream audiences than any pop-rock album since Bruce Springsteen's "Nebraska." But the band presents its case in such majestic, heartfelt and accessible terms that it is unlikely to encounter the radio or consumer resistance met by that stark LP. Indeed, "The Joshua Tree" finally confirms on record what this band has been slowly asserting for three years now on stage: U2 is what the Rolling Stones ceased being years ago -- the greatest rock 'n' roll band in the world. In this album, the band wears that mantle securely.
(condensed from original review)

 

[jick]

No thats bull because U2 would never have claimed those songs were their own in any other context, they were pretty desperate for a break in the music industry. Hence why you don't see U2 trying to pass those Ramones songs off as their own on any albums. The Ground Beneath Her Feet was a unique song because it wasn't written in a cynical manner for chart success by a professional pop songwriter, but by an author. U2 showed their creativity by turning his words into a song. Also in case you haven't noticed it isn't particularly commercia-sounding either, it was a one-off collabaration between friends. This is completely different from the Bon Jovi situation and you know it, but you're too stubborn to back down.

So you are saying just because U2 was desperate they were justified in bullsh*tting everyone into thinking they wrote those songs? What about that band that finished second place to them in that contest? That band could have been bigger then U2, you'll never know. But U2 cheated in the past to be where they are. Some people like you may think the ends justify the means - well that's your call. I would rather work with pop songwriters (as if anything is wrong with that) than claim other people's songs as my own. But I tip my hat off to U2, they have made up for their sins of the past.

On your second point, why do you say The Ground Beneath Her Feet wasn't commercial sounding? What is your definition of commercial sounding?

Cheers,

J
The King Of POP

 

[jick]

bon jovi sux ok. their new song is shit if you'r a girl and like them them ok but if you'r a guy then dude you got some problems.
there is not one song from bon jovi that i can stand. oh did is say how much bon jovie suxxxxxxxxxxxxx.

There is not one song that you can stand? Well at least you did give them a listen because you wouldn't have had made that statement if you hadn't listened to all Bon Jovi's songs. This is a free world and you are entitled to your conclusions about Bon Jovi. At least you didn't categorically state Bon Jovi has no artistic and musical redeeming value whatsoever, as you stated that Bon Jovi is good for girls. I think Jon Bon Jovi would be very happy with that statement.

Cheers,

J
The King Of POP

 

[jick]

Pearl Jam cheesy? Bon Jovi has Velveeta running through their veins. Richie Samboring did Snapple TV commercials a few years back. That is so Rock & Roll. Are PJ typical rock wannabe's when they took on ticketmaster and don't make videos? BJ wouldn't even exsist without MTV. Plus, did you ever hear BJ talk on stage? I did. (Not by choice) All of the sudden he thinks he is Bruce Springsteen. It's laughable how contrived he is. The U2 comparison is also ridiculous. BJ had I hit song in the US in the last 10 years & it's just a remake of one one of their 80's (s)hits basically, the rest of their stuff tanked, as will this new turd they drop. Let's see how U2's Best Of sells in comparison to the latest BJ.

Wow! You actually saw Bon Jovi onstage for a concert? I have never seen Bon Jovi live. I have seen Pearl Jam, Sting and U2, but never Bon Jovi. I must be missing a lot but I hope to see them live someday!

Pearl Jam taking on Ticketmaster was nothing more than a publicity stunt back then.

I don't think it will be a fair comparison between Bon Jovi's latest "Bounce" and U2's "Best Of 1990-2000". Let's compare Bounce with U2's next studio effort. Overall, I think Crush sold as many copies as U2's Best Of 1980-1990 and outsold POP.

Cheers,

J
The King Of POP

 

[jick]

Just a neet little review from 1987 on The Joshua Tree - note the Bon Jovi reference just past the middle, towards the end...

Great review! Joshua Tree is my all-time favorite U2 album. Thanks for the memories. The review shows even more parallelisms with both bands. Back in 1987, U2 had just released a well-reviewed album while the world was feasting on Bon Jovi. More than a decade later, U2 had just released the well-reviewed All That You Can't Leave Behind at a time the world was feasting on Bon Jovi's Crush album (and the hit It's My Life). Anyone who read that review back in 1987 wouldn't think come 2002, Bon Jovi would still be releasing a hit album, and U2 would have just celebrated a 2nd decade of greatest hits!

Cheers,

J
The King Of POP

 

[Hawkmoon1021]

Wow! You actually saw Bon Jovi onstage for a concert? I have never seen Bon Jovi live. I have seen Pearl Jam, Sting and U2, but never Bon Jovi. I must be missing a lot but I hope to see them live someday!

Pearl Jam taking on Ticketmaster was nothing more than a publicity stunt back then.

I don't think it will be a fair comparison between Bon Jovi's latest "Bounce" and U2's "Best Of 1990-2000". Let's compare Bounce with U2's next studio effort. Overall, I think Crush sold as many copies as U2's Best Of 1980-1990 and outsold POP.

Cheers,

J
The King Of POP

Of course I never saw BJ in concert. You couldn't pay me to sit through that. I'd rather watch paint dry. I saw them on some award awards show or something. BTW their version of Helter Skelter is an atrocity. I can't believe they even had the balls to attempt it. That song is everything their not. Also, BJ's last album did tank, at least here in the US, it was a live album I believe. ATYCLB & The Best of 80-90 each outsold Crush I'm pretty sure. POP outsold what ever album BJ had out at the same time I think. Also, Popmart was the most successful, or 2nd most successful tour, of 1997.

 

[doctorwho]

EXACTLY! And there's a huge difference between having some hack pop songwriter write your songs because you want to appeal to the brainless N'Sync and Brittney lovers and having an acclaimed author like Rushdie write lyrics for one of your songs because you admire his work.

Blow Jovi... Thanks, mmmBono, that was great!

Actually, this is wrong too - but in a good way.

Rushdie's lyrics appear in one of his books. They had NOTHING to do with U2. And, in reality, the reverse could be said - it appears that Rushdie was heavily influenced by U2 in that book.

So Rushdie did NOT "write lyrics for one of U2's songs because they admired his work." What happened is that Bono/U2 took PART of that passage in the book and converted it to a song. This involved creating the melody and song itself, which is quite a bit of work.

U2 have done cover songs as b-sides or in concert, but other than "Ground..." I think all of their a-side, album songs were written entirely by them.

 

[Whats The Story?]

So you are saying just because U2 was desperate they were justified in bullsh*tting everyone into thinking they wrote those songs? What about that band that finished second place to them in that contest? That band could have been bigger then U2, you'll never know. But U2 cheated in the past to be where they are. Some people like you may think the ends justify the means - well that's your call. I would rather work with pop songwriters (as if anything is wrong with that) than claim other people's songs as my own. But I tip my hat off to U2, they have made up for their sins of the past.

On your second point, why do you say The Ground Beneath Her Feet wasn't commercial sounding? What is your definition of commercial sounding?

Cheers,

J
The King Of POP

Ground Beneath Her Feet (great song BTW) doesn't sound commercial to me in the way that I don't feel the song possesses any obvious pop hooks, its more of an atmosphere piece, much the same as With Or Without You sounded different to anything else around when it came out.

2nd point: U2 had to get their foot in the door for a record deal. They did that....The odds of the band they beat to second place becomming an even bigger band than U2 are very slim. It wasn't exactly an honourable thing that they did, but they have never let other people write songs for them on albums or singles. You are clutching at straws.

 

[HeartlandGirl]

Pearl Jam wrote TEN then went downhill into oblivion until a brief comeback with Last Kiss. Kinda like how Radiohead went downhill after Creep.

Cheers,

J
The King Of POP

The above statement is deeply, deeply ignorant. I think it proves exactly how much you know about music. Anyone who continues to argue with you from this point on really shouldn't even bother.

That being said, I strongly encourage everyone to let this thread die.

 

[pinkfloyd]

All You need Is Love and Peace On Earth

Jick ...baby.... it 's alright that u love BonJovi, U2 & stuff , that's great ....really .....but what are u tryin to start here ???? a war .... on U2 forum main part ( EYIW ) to start a topic called " Bon Jovi is great etc etc " .. it's like a red sheet for a U2 bull , baby ...

 

[KhanadaRhodes]

U2 have done cover songs as b-sides or in concert, but other than "Ground..." I think all of their a-side, album songs were written entirely by them.

yep. the only cover songs that made it onto an album were on rattle and hum. and each song was live.

i don't think U2 ever intended for TGBHF to be successful commercially. was it even released as a single?