$150 for 25 songs?

[mofo82]

g'night iota. nice debate

 

[iota]

g'night iota. nice debate

Damn it, why did you have to make so many good points?!

 

[petethechopp]

A response to a couple of comments. This has NOTHING to do with U2 having some higher purpose to level the playing field by releasing something exclusively through itunes. This has to do with getting a bunch of publicity and promo spots and paying for them with a few leftover demos and a back cataloge that most fans already have. As Bono once said "Its money that makes the world go round M-O-N-E-Y money" If they were thinking of their fans, then these songs would be available to ALL of their fans. Not just the ones of us who are in the privileged countries that have access to itunes.

 

[mofo82]

A response to a couple of comments. This has NOTHING to do with U2 having some higher purpose to level the playing field by releasing something exclusively through itunes. This has to do with getting a bunch of publicity and promo spots and paying for them with a few leftover demos and a back cataloge that most fans already have. As Bono once said "Its money that makes the world go round M-O-N-E-Y money" If they were thinking of their fans, then these songs would be available to ALL of their fans. Not just the ones of us who are in the privileged countries that have access to itunes.

Don't you think that if itunes is successful enough that the countries that aren't as fortunate enough now will get it when its affordable. If theres a profit to be made and people want the product, it will be made available, but again it takes time. this is huge undertaking, and you can't decide by the flip of a coin who and where this will be available.

 

[mellyinsf]

Not to move this thread in a different direction, but whoever does have the box seat, what does Beautiful Ghost sound like (no I'm not going to be begging for a link later) Just curious to know what people think b/c i love the JT era

I don't know, kinda of like some songs merged together. Thanks for the introduction, it was my first listen

 

[mofo82]

when enough money is made, prices will begin to fall. It's basic business- when more of a thing is out there, its more affordable, but when a new product is introduced, its more expensive. if it's successful, people won't have to shell out so much money. the people that can afford it now and buy it are in a sense the guinea pigs and might help out the chance that others can get it cheaper down the road.

 

[mofo82]

seriously, U2 is such a committed group of individuals that wouldn't want to do anything to hurt the image of their heartfelt causes. why would they want to convey an image that they are out to crush? bono's lobbying for cheaper meds for the AIDS patients in Africa is an example- after the medications were on the market for a few years (when they cost alot of money), they were proven to work and other companies started making similar drugs that could be afforded. Now, switch 'medications' with 'music files and ipod' , and of course 'AIDS patients' with 'music listeners'. See what I'm getting at?

 

[stoven]

Alright, think about this... Those unreleased songs could just as well not have ever been released. So, all of you who complain about the set, just pretend like they still aren't released lol. You cannot get them. So go download them. If you're not ever going to pay money for them, then U2 hasn't lost any money. So don't worry about it. Just stop getting pissed about it. The unreleased songs aren't worth it anyway. Seriously, think about it. Only U2 fanatics would be pissed about not being able to download songs that were purposely LEFT OFF an album by U2 because they weren't GOOD ENOUGH to be on the CD lol...

 

[petethechopp]

Why only release through itunes? Why not a hardcopy, too. Are you guys saying that U2 is creating some new frontier where everything will be released through an itunes monopoly? Who does that help?

 

[mofo82]

There is a reason why things cost money. I fought it for so long, and I understand why so many people think they are owned alot at no cost, but until you make something with your own hands and realize it carries a cost, then see someone else do the same thing but not get credit for it, you don't have the same idea. If people were rightfully given credit for everything they ever did, imagine how uncorrupt and leveled out things would be. But its not that way and unfortunately, sacrifices are made to reach a better end.

U2's endless promotion and numerous commericals are just a means to a greater, more fair end. Give it a chance.

 

[stoven]

I think they released it through iTunes for a couple reasons.

- It's easier. Think about it, just give Apple the master copies and have it done with. No need for shipping discs, etc...
- It pioneers a new frontier, like pete said. Online music is the future, like it or not.
- Edge is an internet freak, plus they like iTunes and think it's cool.
- U2 procrastinates lol

So, other countries that don't have iTunes.... it is coming to your country, so be patient. I doubt there are fans here from zimbabwe waiting to download the box set.

 

[mofo82]

Why only release through itunes? Why not a hardcopy, too. Are you guys saying that U2 is creating some new frontier where everything will be released through an itunes monopoly? Who does that help?

it helps:


the artist
the industry

and most importantly,
the customer

the artist will work for a living and be paid, not robbed of his work from file sharing services that don't commend people's work.

the industry will be able to make the money that is normally lost, and this money can be used to endorse more artists, rather than take shortcuts by giving the minimum to new acts that dont have time to mature into great acts.

the customer will be able to but an official copy of the music, authorized my the person who made it and after long enough time that this fair practice continues, will be pay less money. More money has to be made up as more illegal downloading continues and that's currently passed down to people in the form of higher ticket and cd prices.

 

[stoven]

I have a problem with them saying they lose money from illegal downloads. In my opinion, none of those people are going to buy it on CD or iTunes anyway. So where did they lose money?

iTunes is a good idea, but it will never be the best way to get music until they offer lossless encoding. Which will probably be never

 

[petethechopp]

Whoa! I don't want to get into some Marxist vs capitalism debate here, but an itunes monoploy helps no one. It means that people get robbed blind. If other bands follow U2's lead and start releasing things exclusivley through itunes to prevent file sharing and other forms of abuse, then what happens to your local music store. What happens when itunes starts charging whatever they want b/c they know you can only get what you want from them. C'mon people! i'm not saying U2 shouldn't release a box set, not saying they shouldn't put it on itunes if they want. All I'm saying is that releasing it EXCLUSIVELY through itunes in return for some cheesy tv spots and free publicity smells like a greedy sham.

 

[mofo82]

I have a problem with them saying they lose money from illegal downloads. In my opinion, none of those people are going to buy it on CD or iTunes anyway. So where did they lose money?

iTunes is a good idea, but it will never be the best way to get music until they offer lossless encoding. Which will probably be never

dont you think that if the online downloading of music got that popular that there would be enough money and resources to take it that much further, eventually lossless encoding? That costs more than the AAC files now, but there's always a new product on the horizon. Just look at the music industry 20 years back, when cd's were new and so damn expensive. mp3's werent even a thought of. Take that scenario, and apply it to mp3s versus AAC versus Lossless. It'll happen in time if its successful

 

[mofo82]

Whoa! I don't want to get into some Marxist vs capitalism debate here, but an itunes monoploy helps no one. It means that people get robbed blind. If other bands follow U2's lead and start releasing things exclusivley through itunes to prevent file sharing and other forms of abuse, then what happens to your local music store. What happens when itunes starts charging whatever they want b/c they know you can only get what you want from them. C'mon people! i'm not saying U2 shouldn't release a box set, not saying they shouldn't put it on itunes if they want. All I'm saying is that releasing it EXCLUSIVELY through itunes in return for some cheesy tv spots and free publicity smells like a greedy sham.

have you seen the ad's for sony's mp3 player? the band, los lonely boys does a video much like U2 did for ipod. Ipod isnt the only mp3 player on the market. Ipod will not be the only competitor in the market. It just so happens that Apple probably invested the most money to come up with such technology to start the movement.

 

[petethechopp]

U2 is not the same as los lonely boys, or at least they shouldn't be. But maybe now they are, who knows. But whether another band does ads for another mp3 player, or whether Apple spent a gazillion dollars on this technology doesn't explain why U2 did an exclusive release with one company in exchange for publicity.

By the way, i love this debate. Mofo makes enough good points its getting harder and harder to come up with ideas to support my cause

 

[stoven]

It may happen in time... The reason I don't think it will happen isn't because of bandwidth, or anything like that... I think it's just the fact that most average people are too dumb to notice that the songs they buy from iTunes are nowhere near CD quality... they think they are the same quality as a CD. Until everyone knows about it and forces the issue, it won't happen.

 

[mofo82]

U2 is not the same as los lonely boys, or at least they shouldn't be. But maybe now they are, who knows. But whether another band does ads for another mp3 player, or whether Apple spent a gazillion dollars on this technology doesn't explain why U2 did an exclusive release with one company in exchange for publicity.

By the way, i love this debate. Mofo makes enough good points its getting harder and harder to come up with ideas to support my cause

Thanks alot chop. The reason I think I have all of these reasons is because I fought myself a while as to why should I buy an ipod or anything like that in the first place. Then I had to ask why U2 would ever do that, but they are way too intelligent and on the inside of the music industry to do it for personal greed. They have always lent a helping hand looooooooong before Apple ipods came around, and were well established by then.

 

[david]

I think this boxset is great. I just purchased Boy/Girl, J. Swallow, Things To Make and Do, and Touch all for 99 cents a piece and didn't have to leave home, downloaded them instantly and also didn't have to scour eBay for out of print CD singles or vinyl that would have cost 5 times that!

 

[petethechopp]

I guess what I'm saying is this. U2 b-sides and demos and bootlegs and all the other stuff we crave are good things and they generate a lot of interest for the band. Flashing back a bit, I was kinda bummed when the whole mp3 craze first broke b/c my U2 collection kinda took a value nosedive, and b/c it became so easy to get stuff. I had three concerts on cd and one on tape before mp3's, and i couldn't even count how many i have now. So its the good with the bad. What bums me out about this is that the band seems to have taken all the stuff we crave and found a way to charge an arm and a leg for it by selling it exclusively through itunes. And I might even be okay with that if they made it available through other sources as well.

 

[david]

So if the unreleased stuff was available for 99 cents a song this thread would have probably never happened right?

 

[bonosleftone]

So if the unreleased stuff was available for 99 cents a song this thread would have probably never happened right?

Well duh.

The point of this entire thread isnt the fact they're selling the songs, or is even against the box set. It's against the fact that the stuff that a lot of us fans want is the only stuff we can't get without purchasing the entire set.

 

[petethechopp]

If the entire set was available wherever music is sold, even for $150, I wouldn't be b*tchin. My problem is that its only available through itunes and not everyone has access to itunes, for whatever various reasons that I won't repeat here but have been mentioned throughout the thread. My issue is that a lot of fans got cut off from the chance to BUY this music b/c U2 took the Apple tv ads and whatnot in exchange for an exclusive release

 

[stoven]

I really think that it will be available sooner or later. If they had not already planned it, then it is my belief that the power of U2 fans will prevail and we will force them to release it lol.

 

[bonosleftone]

If the entire set was available wherever music is sold, even for $150, I wouldn't be b*tchin. My problem is that its only available through itunes and not everyone has access to itunes, for whatever various reasons that I won't repeat here but have been mentioned throughout the thread. My issue is that a lot of fans got cut off from the chance to BUY this music b/c U2 took the Apple tv ads and whatnot in exchange for an exclusive release

Small point but if this set was available everywhere in its current form, it would be well over $150.

This IS a fantastic deal for those that dont have any or much U2 at all, but its nothing of a deal for the people who want only the unreleased stuf or for the people who cant even get it because Itunes doesnt service them.

 

[petethechopp]

The last box set i bought was Led Zep's from like 1992 or something, so I may not be current, but do box sets ussually sell for more than $150?

Also, I think its pretty common to release rare material on box sets so that people who already have all the albums have a reason to hand over a boatload of cash. I don't have a problem with that. Box sets are box sets and we know they're expensive and redundant for hardcore fans. I just don't like this format and the obvious greed involved in striking this kind of deal.

 

[bonosleftone]

The last box set i bought was Led Zep's from like 1992 or something, so I may not be current, but do box sets ussually sell for more than $150?

Also, I think its pretty common to release rare material on box sets so that people who already have all the albums have a reason to hand over a boatload of cash. I don't have a problem with that. Box sets are box sets and we know they're expensive and redundant for hardcore fans. I just don't like this format and the obvious greed involved in striking this kind of deal.

Well the Zeppelin Complete sells for $120 (brand new retail) and is 10 discs.

If you took this U2 Complete and literally had physical CDs it would be a pretty heavy set, I would say at least 10-15 discs, thats of course only if they kept all the repeat material etc. Its only selling at this price ($150) because its digital.

They should at the very least allow the Unreleased to be bought as a seperate portion, hell I would gladly pay $20 to download the tracks off of I-Tunes.

Then again U2 could always do what Nirvana just did and release a 3 CD/1 DVD box set of ONLY unreleased material that is selling at Target for under 30 bucks right now.

 

[david]

I think 150 is reasonable for the amount of stuff U2 is selling. Imagine how much it would cost if you tried to track it down on CD or vinyl?

And you get U2 3

But I guess A LOT of people are just fixated on those songs from the ATYCLB and HTDAAB sessions.

I think I am more interested in hearing that unreleased Joshua Tree song "Beautiful Ghost."

I dunno, but I wont get my panties in a knot. I'm sure I'll hear it one way or another.

 

[petethechopp]

Okay, that gives me some cost perspective. I think something close to the Nirvana set would be nice. But I think $150 would be about right, maybe a bit low, for what they're offering as a physical set; in comparison to the Zepplin set. But wouldn't it be better as a physical set. Isn't that the reason why all of us who downloaded HTDAAB two weeks ago went out and bought it?