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Old 08-08-2007, 12:18 PM   #826
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I don't consider this to be a big deal because I think he took steroids - and whatever has been said about him still having to supply the coordination and skill is true, but it's also true that the steroids enhanced his power. I think he cheated, and not even in a more respectable, individually powered way (spitballs are cheating, but they're done with the skill and resources of the individual - and aside from being dangerous, they're kinda cool). So I'll always see an invisible asterisk, but I also think that Arod, much as I dislike the guy, will break it on his own merit, so it won't matter that much.

I would like Barry to have to own his actions some day, though.
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Old 08-08-2007, 12:22 PM   #827
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Originally posted by BonosSaint

All this moral flexing is such a joke.

This is another joke argument. Why in the world should baseball fans simply turn our backs on the Bonds scandal because we cheered for Mark McGuire.


I fuckin' believed my mom and dad when they told me Santa Claus was real, but that doesn't mean I have to let everyone lie to me now.

Fool me once ...
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Old 08-08-2007, 12:42 PM   #828
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Now, I think it is fair to say that he has never: tested positive, admitted to using any performance enhancing drugs, or been indicted on charges relating to the above.
Well, there is that pesky grand jury testimony where he admits to using products he thought (yeah right) were flax-seed oil and arthritis balm. His supposed ignorance does not make him innocent.

The number of Bonds apologists and excuse makers are disturbing to me as well.
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Old 08-08-2007, 12:59 PM   #829
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Well, there is that pesky grand jury testimony where he admits to using products he thought (yeah right) were flax-seed oil and arthritis balm. His supposed ignorance does not make him innocent.
Whenever I hear an athlete plead ignorance as to what he took, they must think that the rest of us of f'ing morons. What profressional athelete would take something and not know exactly what it is? With the training regiment that Bonds has (and other athletes) it's absurd to think that he doesn't monitor what goes into his body down to the last little bit. He got to be a professional by being so meticulous about these things, not by randomly injecting/ingesting things.
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Old 08-08-2007, 01:02 PM   #830
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Tell that to Gary Sheffield.
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Old 08-08-2007, 01:07 PM   #831
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Originally posted by Varitek
I think he cheated, and not even in a more respectable, individually powered way (spitballs are cheating, but they're done with the skill and resources of the individual - and aside from being dangerous, they're kinda cool).
This is part of the problem too. Certain methods of cheating aren't chastised, but rather laughed at. I'm very guilty of this too. Whether it's stealing signs, a little piece of sandpaper in the glove, or steroids it's still cheating - a player is trying to shift the odds of success in their favor. Yet, all forms of cheating aren't viewed the same. I'd like to know how spitballs or sandpaper got to be acceptable and steroids and corked bats got to be unacceptable. The million dollar question is why are steroids the biggest thing in baseball, but no one cares about them in the NFL.
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Old 08-08-2007, 01:08 PM   #832
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Tell that to Gary Sheffield.
Gary would then call me a racist and/or punch me in the face.
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Old 08-08-2007, 01:08 PM   #833
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It would be unfair to take Bond's record away from him or put an asterisks next to his record if they cannot prove (with evidence) that he did take the drugs, but that does not mean that the American public needs to lower our standards of fair play and celebrate him.
I snipped Dalton's post for length's sake, but I feel pretty much the same way he does.

I was a little bummed this morning when I learned he'd broken the record. Not because I didn't want him to, but that I'd missed it! I'm not a big Bonds fan, but I like seeing big historic events play out.

Oh well.
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Old 08-08-2007, 01:27 PM   #834
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This is part of the problem too. Certain methods of cheating aren't chastised, but rather laughed at. I'm very guilty of this too. Whether it's stealing signs, a little piece of sandpaper in the glove, or steroids it's still cheating - a player is trying to shift the odds of success in their favor. Yet, all forms of cheating aren't viewed the same. I'd like to know how spitballs or sandpaper got to be acceptable and steroids and corked bats got to be unacceptable. The million dollar question is why are steroids the biggest thing in baseball, but no one cares about them in the NFL.
I honestly think that some kinds of cheating are worse than others. Stealing signs and spitballs and sandpaper should earn the offender an intentional HBP, but they have always been part of the game and they come from individual achievements, whereas steroids are outside influence. (I'm willing to stand by the extension of this argument - that signs stolen with the use of cameras are far worse than the guy on second or in the bullpen cracking the catcher's signs and relaying them to the batter. However, the worst is when a batter turns around and looks...don't know if I can logically fit that in, but whatever. Baseball is a peculiar sport.)
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Old 08-08-2007, 01:30 PM   #835
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Originally posted by corianderstem


I was a little bummed this morning when I learned he'd broken the record. Not because I didn't want him to, but that I'd missed it! I'm not a big Bonds fan, but I like seeing big historic events play out.

Oh well.
I missed it too, but I wasn't disappointed. I remember staying up to listen for Bonds's 500th on MLB radio. That still seemed like a magical moment. I don't even care that I didn't see this as it is meaningless to me - I'm much sadder I missed Arod's 500th. But compared to Barry's 500th, I cared a little less about that too. I think part of the reason is what Jayson Stark wrote about - the steroids and Barry breaking the record have kind of cheapened all of those numbers for me. Part of it might be that he's a Yankee - I'm excited as hell for Manny and he won't hit 500 until late September or early next year.
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Old 08-08-2007, 02:06 PM   #836
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What's great about all of this is that one day, barring injury, Alex Rodriguez will break this record. Whether or not he does it as a Yankee remains to be seen, but when he does, no one will give a shit about Bonds and his alleged Shenangans.
Of course Jose Canseco claims to have "something on" A-Rod in his upcoming book.
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Old 08-08-2007, 02:46 PM   #837
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Jose Canseco is pathetic.
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Old 08-08-2007, 03:06 PM   #838
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Perhaps, but much of what he exposed in his first book proved to be true.
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Old 08-08-2007, 04:18 PM   #839
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For the record: one of my favorite things in baseball is when a manager leaves a starting pitcher in the game even when he is getting his azz handed to him.

"Sorry son, you're letting the team down with your miserable performance and we are not going to let you compound that mistake by wearing out our bullpen. Here's the ball. Do what you can. By the way, you'll be on a bus this time tomorrow!"

From the Brewers game:

PITCHING STATS
Pitcher IP PC H ER BB K
Gallardo 2.2 80 12 11 3 1
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Old 08-08-2007, 04:45 PM   #840
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hewson
Perhaps, but much of what he exposed in his first book proved to be true.
Hewson, you madcap, I won't fall into your evil trap!


Seriously, I guess anything is possible. I never thought Doc Gooden would turn into a coke head. But, Canseco's credibility is questionable at best.
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