Flying FuManchu
New Yorker
Jack In The Box said:
I agree.
Radiohead's biggest weakness
- Thread starter Layton
- Start date
The friendliest place on the web for anyone that follows U2.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
I agree.
this thread is nonsense.
airbag has more funk in it than half of the top 10 mowtown hits.
and don't even come at me about motown because
I'll embarress you.
besides which, name a nirvana tune that has what you're looking for.
for that matter, name a who tune that does.
airbag has more funk in it than half of the top 10 mowtown hits.
and don't even come at me about motown because
I'll embarress you.
besides which, name a nirvana tune that has what you're looking for.
for that matter, name a who tune that does.
Pinball Wizard
Refugee
Not to delve too deeply into semantics, but it sounds like the lionshare of the thread is directed at a question of groove and blues rather than rhythm. Rhythm is just working within a set frame of time and subscribing a set of instruments to that rigor.
As Basstrap said earlier, Radiohead works in quite complicated signatures, and the syncopation that is required across those five musicians is ridiculous. On the surface, it may appear that they don't have the most sensual of grooves, but the rhythm in their basslines and the precision of their percussion section creates a different order of rhythm... one that can be just as appealing as some of the overt examples.
Do the low frequencies necessarily need to be amplified in order for that aesthetic of rhythm to exist? I don't know. Why work in a convention that imparts a formula if there's a more interesting way to achieve a rhythmic sensibility?
In my opinion, it's often the death of a band when they try to "re-discover their musical roots"... Some are successful as they expand upon the sound and the vibe, but others stagnate in attempts to emulate.
Yes. I figure I'm entitled to a Don King moment or three.
As Basstrap said earlier, Radiohead works in quite complicated signatures, and the syncopation that is required across those five musicians is ridiculous. On the surface, it may appear that they don't have the most sensual of grooves, but the rhythm in their basslines and the precision of their percussion section creates a different order of rhythm... one that can be just as appealing as some of the overt examples.
Do the low frequencies necessarily need to be amplified in order for that aesthetic of rhythm to exist? I don't know. Why work in a convention that imparts a formula if there's a more interesting way to achieve a rhythmic sensibility?
In my opinion, it's often the death of a band when they try to "re-discover their musical roots"... Some are successful as they expand upon the sound and the vibe, but others stagnate in attempts to emulate.
Yes. I figure I'm entitled to a Don King moment or three.
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corianderstem
Blue Crack Distributor
I have nothing of interest to add here, and I'm not even a Radiohead fan, but I just wanted to say that this thread is very interesting.
Rock on, shake your ass on, Thom Yorke on, etc.
Rock on, shake your ass on, Thom Yorke on, etc.
TheRooster
Acrobat
Pinball Wizard said:
This is a great post. Speaking of basslines I love Paranoid Android's. It randomly comes into my consciousness and won't leave for days, pure genius.
joyfulgirl
Blue Crack Addict
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Pinball Wizard said:
Nice.
Lancemc
Blue Crack Addict
Radiohead's biggest weakness is Hail to the Theif.
u2popmofo said:
You're probably right. The interpretation argument is always a hard one to get around when talking about art, but just for the hell of it I'll try anyway----lol.
To me it's a weakness that Radiohead doesn't allow the full breadth of human existence to flow through their music.
Now to keep this simple, I'll break down this idea of existence into 2 components. The first being an intellectual, abstract and relatively sophisticated way of experiencing life. The second being a more sensual, sexual and relatively primitive way of experiencing life. Usually people characterized by that second way express it through rhythm and beats (i.e. the great African rhythms that basically gave birth to all rhthym based music). There's been some good rebuttals stating that Radiohead is great with rhythm because of their use of varied time signatures, etc. Usually, varied siganatures are mathematically knotty and take great smarts to put together. Since Radiohead is such an artistically abstract oriented band, these signature changes feel like they're coming from the same tendency. Unlike say great jazz musicians who base their time signature changes more on feel than thought.
I'll go so far as to say that Radiohead might be rock's best ever at portraying their music through that more cerebral way, but they also might be one of the worst ever at portraying their music through more primitive means. Now that's a very minor criticism given how great their strength is. Still though, it makes me wonder because obviously that more primitive side has to exist in them. This leads me to think that they are suppressing this half of themselves. It's as if they're cutting themselves in half and only offering that part of their existence to the world with their art. From that vantage point as a listener, one can begin to feel this suppresion in their music. I think that feeling of suppression can be construed as a weakness relative to other all-timers.
joyfulgirl
Blue Crack Addict
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Really, really great.
I would argue that National Anthem has its primal moments, though.
I would argue that National Anthem has its primal moments, though.
LJT said:
That's an interesting point. U2 really reinvigorated their career in the '90's by consciously and purposely playing to their weaknesses. Radiohead has yet to take on that kind of artistic challenge. This really speaks to where they are at the moment with their art. Even diehards will admit the last few albums have been a step down for the band. To find something they've never done and attempt to become great at it could be an artistic elixir for Radiohead, but do they have the balls to risk alienating their devoted fanbase, like U2 did. In other words, does Radiohead have an ingenious curveball like AB in them. That remains to be seen.
Layton said:
I dont know, but I'd say most people outside of the U2 fanatic world think that 'Kid A' was far more of a step in a completely different direction than 'Achtung Baby' was (and far more of a risky step at that).
It's all just a general interpretation. There are a massive amount of people out there also who prefer all of Radiohead's recent material to their early material (I'm in this group). Anyways, just trying to say that there's not exactly any kind of absolute in this, and that it's not very true that, "even die hards will admit the last few albums have been a step down". I dont feel this at all about Radiohead (but I do about U2's most recent album). Personal tastes and opinions, everyone thinks of it all differently.
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I think the U2 of the 90s was an experiment to see how extreme they can take a more mainstream audience, and now its how far they can take a more cerebal audience into the realm of pop
(i think i mean they tried to make cerebal music more accessible and pop music accessible to the cerebal) If that makes sense to anyone....
Radiohead are just delving deep into one extreme in my opinion, as Layton said there has to be another side to them...i like them but not greatly and will not pass judgement on the little i know of them...which is something that happens often enough with U2
(i think i mean they tried to make cerebal music more accessible and pop music accessible to the cerebal) If that makes sense to anyone....Radiohead are just delving deep into one extreme in my opinion, as Layton said there has to be another side to them...i like them but not greatly and will not pass judgement on the little i know of them...which is something that happens often enough with U2
Zoomerang96
ONE love, blood, life
while i agree entirely with what popmofo has said, this is still a really interesting thread layton.
nice work.
even if i don't agree with much of what you said.
nice work.
even if i don't agree with much of what you said.
HeartlandGirl
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
As some around here know, I've been reading a biography of Manic Street Preachers. And just today, I read an interview that the band gave where the reporter criticized them for not being 'real' enough, for not having songs that their listeners could relate to, songs to connect the band with their listeners. And to paraphrase the members of the band, they basically said, it's time to move beyond the boyfriend/girlfriend love songs. They want their songs to be cerebral and talk about politics, race, class, governments, literature, art, film, etc. They don't care if their songs are sexy or danceable--what they care about is that their songs say something IMPORTANT.
So with that in mind, I have to agree with those who are saying that it is NOT a weakness of Radiohead that they don't make any dance hits or baby-making music. There's more to life than sex, sexuality, and personal relationships. Hurray to those bands who are out there to say something different.
So with that in mind, I have to agree with those who are saying that it is NOT a weakness of Radiohead that they don't make any dance hits or baby-making music. There's more to life than sex, sexuality, and personal relationships. Hurray to those bands who are out there to say something different.
Saracene
Rock n' Roll Doggie VIP PASS
I'm not the hugest Radiohead fan but I think they're very good at what they do. There's a certain "sexlessness" to their music, true, but IMO it's just a matter of style rather than a weakness. And, with very few exceptions, I find U2 music rather sexless as well; even when they try and aim for hip-shaking effect it's only hip-shaking compared to the rest of their music. As for "trying everything", IMO bands can be like actors in that even the greatest of them ultimately have limitations to their range and can look completely wrong and miscast in certain roles. Thom Yorke as a smooth Love God makes as much sense as Tom Hanks playing James Bond.
JessicaAnn
ONE love, blood, life
Saracene said:
There are enough bands out there that put out "booty shakin' " music. Sex isn't the bottom line for all bands and it isn't the bottom line for a lot of fans.
Radiohead doesn't need to change a thing.
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Nate Dogg
Refugee
they just need more cowbell.
and here i always thought radiohead's biggest weakness was their music... silly me
u2popmofo said:
a man brought his wife to see the doctor. the doctor checked her out, and told the husband "i have some bad news... your wife is very sick. she either has alzheimer's or aids."
"alzheimer's or aids?," says the man, "how do i know which one it is?"
"well," says the doctor, "drop her off 10 miles from your house. if she comes back, don't fuck her."
u2popmofo said:Hahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahaha.
You have succeeded.
zang
an old irish couple are driving home from a night out at the pub.
the man is driving and is very drunk, swerving and weaving all over the road at a very fast speed.
finally, the police pull him over. the officer says: "sir, do you know that your wife fell out of your car about a mile back?"
the man replies: "oh, thank God. for a minute there I thought I had gone deaf."
the man is driving and is very drunk, swerving and weaving all over the road at a very fast speed.
finally, the police pull him over. the officer says: "sir, do you know that your wife fell out of your car about a mile back?"
the man replies: "oh, thank God. for a minute there I thought I had gone deaf."
mickey mouse wants to divorce minnie mouse. so he goes to divorce court and explains to the judge the reasons for why he wants to divorce minnie.
so the judge says "let me get this straight... you want to divorce your wife because she's mentaly imbalanced?"
"no," says mickey... "she's fucking goofy"
so the judge says "let me get this straight... you want to divorce your wife because she's mentaly imbalanced?"
"no," says mickey... "she's fucking goofy"
Zoots
Blue Crack Supplier
Great Radiohead thread!
shart1780
Rock n' Roll Doggie
I agree that Radiohead does have a problem (in my mind). Alot of people don't mind, but I do. The range of emotion in their songs is very limited to me. They have very few songs that communicate emotions other than confusion and gloom.
We'll take U2 as an example (because we're all familiar with U2) of the opposite. They have songs that are expressive of every emotion.
One expresses desperation
One Step Closer expresses depression
Love and Peace or Else expresses coolness
If You Wear that Velvet Dress expresses sexyness
Zooropa expresses confusion
Elevation expresses fun
Beautiful Day expresses joy
I could go on and on. Not only are the subjects of these songs different but the FEELING of the songs are different. Radiohead are masters at what they do but their songs span such a tiny range of emotions I just couldn't view them as being a truly great band. I wouldn't call one of their songs fun or joyful. Maybe Nice Dream is a happy song, but it's still very suppressed. Sure, their songs have different subjects and such, but they all communicate one feeling: gloom.
We'll take U2 as an example (because we're all familiar with U2) of the opposite. They have songs that are expressive of every emotion.
One expresses desperation
One Step Closer expresses depression
Love and Peace or Else expresses coolness
If You Wear that Velvet Dress expresses sexyness
Zooropa expresses confusion
Elevation expresses fun
Beautiful Day expresses joy
I could go on and on. Not only are the subjects of these songs different but the FEELING of the songs are different. Radiohead are masters at what they do but their songs span such a tiny range of emotions I just couldn't view them as being a truly great band. I wouldn't call one of their songs fun or joyful. Maybe Nice Dream is a happy song, but it's still very suppressed. Sure, their songs have different subjects and such, but they all communicate one feeling: gloom.
financeguy
ONE love, blood, life
JOFO said:
A drunken Paddy joke. But I don't mind cos it's quite funny.
financeguy
ONE love, blood, life
shart1780 said:
Radiohead span the entire range of emotions from deeply gloomy to mildy pessimistic!
I take your point but I find the Bends (the album) strangely uplifting. OK Computer is a bit unrelenting admittedly.
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