NFL 2007 Part 4

[phillyfan26]

I'm really surprised to see such a silly post from you.

I intend to contribute to this discussion, but this made me .

 

[Hewson]

I don't understand your post. Are you saying that they're more important or equally important than any other position? Because I simply can't agree that QB is the most important part of an offense by far like so many believe. There have been too many instances of terrible QBs running good offenses for me to buy that.

I don't care how brilliant a QB is; even Peyton Manning would have sucked on a team like the Rams this year that had no offensive line. Tom Brady has arguably the best offensive line in football.

Are the Pats 18-0 with Matt Cassel starting all 18 games?
[/end discussion]

 

[LemonMelon]

Are the Pats 18-0 with Matt Cassel starting all 18 games?
[/end discussion]

QB is a hugely important position and often separates the great offenses from the passable

But continue to read what you want to read and respond in kind.

 

[Hewson]

Yes, but the Pats wouldn't necessarily even rate as passable with Cassel.
They had games where offensive linemen were out, 2 at a time at least one game...that can be overcome (not all 5 of course) much easier than loss of a top notch QB.

 

[phillyfan26]

I think O-lines are a huge part of football, but that's five positions you're talking about.

QB is definitely the most important single position in football.

 

[LemonMelon]

Yes, but the Pats wouldn't necessarily even rate as passable with Cassel.

With Moss, Stallworth, and Welker?

With that brick wall of an o-line?

You're crazy. They would still be good. Just not a machine.

 

[Hewson]

With Moss, Stallworth, and Welker?

With that brick wall of an o-line?

You're crazy. They would still be good. Just not a machine.

8-8 I venture to guess

 

[LemonMelon]

8-8 I venture to guess

9-7 or 10-6 for me. Your defense is still pretty good, remember?

 

[Hewson]

With Moss, Stallworth, and Welker?

With that brick wall of an o-line?

You're crazy. They would still be good. Just not a machine.

Lets just stick to your argument that QB is not the single most important position on an NFL team.
Using the Pats as an example, are they hurt more by the loss of:

Tom Brady or Matt Light

Tom Brady or Logan Mankins

Tom Brady or Dan Koppen

Tom Brady or Randy Moss

Tom Brady or Laurence Maroney

Tom Brady or Wes Welker

Tom Brady or Ben Watson

Tom Brady or Richard Seymour

Tom Brady or Tedy Bruschi

Tom Brady or Rodney Harrison

Tom Brady or Roosevelt Colvin

Tom Brady or Vince Wilfork

Tom Brady or Adalieus Thomas

Tom Brady or Assante Samuel

Tom Brady or Ty Warren

Tom Brady or Stephen Gostkowski

and so on...if you answered anything other than "Tom Brady" on any of the above, you're lying...offensive line is very important, but as many others have said, its 5 positions (6 if you count the TE), QB is the single most important position, no question.

 

[Hewson]

9-7 or 10-6 for me. Your defense is still pretty good, remember?

True, but that D will have to be on the field more and stop the opponent more if Brady is not under center as the Pats will score much less and possess the ball less.

 

[LemonMelon]

Anyway, my original point was that Eli Manning didn't deserve all the credit for the Giants' current run, but rather some props should be doled out to the superior play of their o-line, some consistent catching from their WRs, and their currently excellent running game, which of course snowballed into this debate.

QBs. Leaders of the offense. All the decent offenses have a consistent man behind center, and the crappy ones seem to have a new QB every week. No coincidence there. However, I simply believe they get too much credit from the general populous, and it's happening here in Eli's case.

That is all.

 

[phillyfan26]

I tend to see Eli getting bashed more than I see him getting credit, so I'm not sure I agree with your point here.

 

[LemonMelon]

I tend to see Eli getting bashed more than I see him getting credit, so I'm not sure I agree with your point here.

Perhaps up until they beat the Cowboys. Now all of a sudden he's a dominating, pro-bowl caliber QB. I suppose it's not undeserved, but I just believe there's more to it than some New Year's resolution he made to stop being mediocre.

 

[Hewson]

I tend to see Eli getting bashed more than I see him getting credit, so I'm not sure I agree with your point here.

Until 4 weeks ago maybe, but I've heard no Eli bashing during the playoffs. He's played well. Is he the main reason the G-men are in the Super Bowl, no. They have played well as an entire unit. But Eli has stepped up his game considerably. He has not turned the ball over in the playoffs. So he deserves praise and some credit, certainly not all the credit.

 

[phillyfan26]

Yeah, that's true about the playoffs. I think him stepping up has helped them a lot, too. Certainly, the play of their defensive line and a good running game have been the main reasons for their success.

Congrats to the Giants, by the way. You'll rarely get that from me, but you get it now.

 

[Hewson]

Congrats to the Giants, by the way. You'll rarely get that from me, but you get it now.

Just as long as they don't get it again in 13 days.

 

[LemonMelon]

As much as I hate to say it, I think Eli may be turning the corner and is no longer in the (Alex Smith-esque) bust category. But another season of success wouldn't hurt. Or a season with a QB rating in the 80's.

 

[phillyfan26]

^ Exactly.

 

[phillyfan26]

As much as I hate to say it, I think Eli may be turning the corner and is no longer in the (Alex Smith-esque) bust category. But another season of success wouldn't hurt. Or a season with a QB rating in the 80's.

He's absolutely got room for improvement, and not improving would be considered a failure for him, I imagine. He's young, so he's expected to improve still.

 

[LemonMelon]

Oh, speaking of Alex Smith, I would just like to mention how much fun it's going to be to watch Mike Martz attempt to run the 49ers offense when they have absolutely no passing game. It's probably the most ill-fitting OC their staff could have picked.

 

[No spoken words]

BTW, forgot to point this out...



Dude. No. Is a QB's ability to withstand name-calling more important than their ability to get a higher QB rating than 75?

No. Their ability to win is. You're picking out choice bits but ignoring the other things I said abouyt Palmer. Palmer's an overrated QB, with a million dollar arm and a 2 cent head, and he's a locker room cancer. Go watch some of their games, and, then come talk to me when he gets his team into the playoffs again, let alone wins a playoff game. And, if you are going to let QB rating guide your arguments, you're making less and less sense by the second, sorry.

 

[No spoken words]

As much as I hate to say it, I think Eli may be turning the corner and is no longer in the (Alex Smith-esque) bust category. But another season of success wouldn't hurt. Or a season with a QB rating in the 80's.

Wow, again with the QB rating. Unreal.

Terry Bradshaw's career QB rating: 70.9

Phil Simms': 78.5

John Elway: 79.9

Carson Palmer: 90.1

Please.

 

[Butterscotch]

Hey, I just thought about something: has anyone seen that Michael Strahan commercial that's been running? Apparently he was 'going to the Super Bowl' to host some kind of thing (I forget what) during Super Bowl week. They showed him going into the team locker room and there was a Romo jersey hanging there guess they got that wrong! Looks like they're going to have to find somebody else to host whatever it was, Strahan will be too busy. Maybe Romo can take the job over?

 

[LemonMelon]

No. Their ability to win is. You're picking out choice bits but ignoring the other things I said abouyt Palmer. Palmer's an overrated QB, with a million dollar arm and a 2 cent head, and he's a locker room cancer. Go watch some of their games, and, then come talk to me when he gets his team into the playoffs again, let alone wins a playoff game. And, if you are going to let QB rating guide your arguments, you're making less and less sense by the second, sorry.

Perhaps if he actually had a defense, he would win football games. Ever thought of that? The Giants have one, the Bengals are perennially terrible in that regard. If you're scoring 30+ points a game and still losing, it's not the QB's fault. This is basic stuff.

 

[No spoken words]

You use a phrase "basic stuff" as a pejorative, but you harp on QB rating, which erodes your credibility severely. Wake me up when you get past that, until then, we're going in circles.

 

[LemonMelon]

Wow, again with the QB rating. Unreal.

Terry Bradshaw's career QB rating: 70.9

Phil Simms': 78.5

John Elway: 79.9

Carson Palmer: 90.1

Please.

This is what Manning fans always do. The past QBs had lower career ratings because it was a combination of their crappy earlier seasons. You of all people would know that Bradshaw's last few seasons were incredible, but when you balance it by his first few, that's what you get. To use that to make light of the QB rating system is ridiculous.

Palmer is a beast, and his numbers prove it, while Manning has yet to have a truly great season. Hell, just 7 weeks ago he had the most incomplete passes in a game since 1967. Good on him for having some great games, but he's had some bad ones this year as well. Another season will be the litmus test.

 

[No spoken words]

This is what Manning fans always do. The past QBs had lower career ratings because it was a combination of their crappy earlier seasons. You of all people would know that Bradshaw's last few seasons were incredible, but when you balance it by his first few, that's what you get. To use that to make light of the QB rating system is ridiculous.

Palmer is a beast, and his numbers prove it, while Manning has yet to have a truly great season. Hell, just 7 weeks ago he had the most incomplete passes in a game since 1967. Good on him for having some great games, but he's had some bad ones this year as well. Another season will be the litmus test.

I'm a Steeler fan, not an Eli fan....I'm objective here. I like when my team wins. I don't care how they do it.

The QB rating system is what is ridiculous. And, again, we're going in circles, we're not going to agree here, so, I will drop it and we'll agree to disagree.

One last thing....you probably do not know a lot about Bradshaw, and that's ok.....his highest QB rating for even a 1/2 season was less than 90. He was above 80 only 3 times. He liked to take risks and throw deep, so his completion %'s were never great, and he tossed picks. But, in the 4th Quarter, he was amazing, as well as the playoffs.

 

[LemonMelon]

You use a phrase "basic stuff" as a pejorative, but you harp on QB rating, which erodes your credibility severely. Wake me up when you get past that, until then, we're going in circles.

I still have no clue why you're bashing QB ratings. Palmer threw 18 TDs and 18 INTs in 2004 and had a 77.3 rating as a result. Eli has played great for weeks and, no shit, his rating is through the roof! It's not as if the system is balanced in favor of some over others; there's a reason QBs get the ratings they get.

Furthermore, you've yet to give any reason for me to buy your opinion that ratings are absolutely worthless, other than post the career ratings of some elite QBs, which almost makes it seem as if they never once had a highly-rated season, which is ridiculous.

Simply, Manning isn't that great yet, and his stats are proof. Teams win for reasons other than the play of their QBs and you seem to be stuck on that.

 

[No spoken words]

I left Eli behind a long time ago, LM, and am having a broader conversation. But, it seems like you're not reading what I say, and, I keep trying to end it. We're going in circles. We disagree.

 

[LemonMelon]

I'm a Steeler fan, not an Eli fan....I'm objective here. I like when my team wins. I don't care how they do it.

The QB rating system is what is ridiculous. And, again, we're going in circles, we're not going to agree here, so, I will drop it and we'll agree to disagree.

One last thing....you probably do not know a lot about Bradshaw, and that's ok.....his highest QB rating for even a 1/2 season was less than 90. He was above 80 only 3 times. He liked to take risks and throw deep, so his completion %'s were never great, and he tossed picks. But, in the 4th Quarter, he was amazing, as well as the playoffs.

Fine, if you don't want to argue, that's cool with me. I do know that Bradshaw struggled a lot early on but was a beast when it counted.

And now he's a total doofus of a sportscaster.