MERGED--> Lost Season 4

[beegee]

I've been hoping for some kind of Richard Alpert flashback ever since Ben asked him if he remembered what birthdays are.

Clearly, he is not aging.

 

[Hewson]

So everyone who speculated it was Christian Sheperd in the shadows in the cabin last time Locke visited was right.
The question now is...was it intended as thus or are the writers truly allowing fans to write the show?

 

[phanan]

I've been hoping for some kind of Richard Alpert flashback ever since Ben asked him if he remembered what birthdays are.

Clearly, he is not aging.

Indeed. That was probably the most intriguing aspect of this episode, considering how far back in time that flashback took place.

 

[beegee]

The question now is...was it intended as thus or are the writers truly allowing fans to write the show?

Oh my goodness, you just made my day

 

[phanan]

So everyone who speculated it was Christian Sheperd in the shadows in the cabin last time Locke visited was right.

Yes, but we still don't know who Jacob is.

 

[lazarus]

I need to go back and watch this season's first episode, because I'm curious to compare what Abbadon said there with his appearance in last night's installment.

Along with Alpert, his character is VERY intriguing.

 

[Hewson]

Yes, but we still don't know who Jacob is.

They certainly threw out the possibility that Abaddon could be Jacob with his last sentence to Locke.

 

[phanan]

True enough.

So I think it's obvious that Claire is dead now.

 

[VintagePunk]

This one was such a mindfuck that I wasn't sure what to think right after viewing it last night.

I'm still not.

 

[lazarus]

So I think it's obvious that Claire is dead now.

I don't know that we can say that 100%. No one else from Flight 815 has died only to have their body disappear, with their ghost appearing immediately to other cast members...

 

[phanan]

I'm not sure if that matters, really. Things are changing all the time with this story.

She must be dead. She showed no concern for Aaron, and didn't bother asking where he was. She seemed to have an understanding with Christian on what was going on, and since Christian is also dead, it makes sense.

Also, Miles seems to be quite curious about her, and we know of his special talents regarding dead people.

 

[Hewson]

What we need to find out is how she died.

After effects of the explosion, some internal injury or brain swelling or some such thing.

 

[phanan]

After effects of the explosion, some internal injury or brain swelling or some such thing.

Yeah, I figured the same, which was why I deleted that part of my post.

I think it simply happened in her sleep, right there at the campfire site.

 

[deep]

How about these time loop sequences?


We had the 30 second tree chopper?

with the nose bleed saying he has been dead for twelve years




and then we have the doctor washing up on the beach with his throat slit loop

but it appears to be a several day loop not just 30 seconds

 

[deep]

as for the clues "in plain sight"

we have a high school John Locke being locked in a locker

and his Counselor telling him he will never be the hero type, he is a scientist, he belongs in science camp, he will never be a leader, never be the quarterback



all these things cause me to believe that the writers are dropping clues that these are not "real events" in "real time"


after watching "the sixth sense" was anyone disappointed after watching a second time?
did you not say, "Well, ok, I guess what I thought I saw happening did not really happen and it does all add up."

 

[U2DMfan]

How about these time loop sequences?


We had the 30 second tree chopper?

with the nose bleed saying he has been dead for twelve years




and then we have the doctor washing up on the beach with his throat slit loop

but it appears to be a several day loop not just 30 seconds

Two seperate events.

The first one with Horace=dead 12 years, was a dream.
Remember Locke woke up right afterwards.
Also Ben said "I used to have dreams too...."
I suppose the dreams are instructions from Jacob/Island

The time discrepancy when passing between the 'barrier' or whatever you want to call it and the Island was decribed by Daniel (Jeremy Davies) as inconsistent. He told Jack it was sometimes minuites, sometimes hours, years and days etc.

Further, the missile or projectile was 30 mintues too slow and the helicopter (when Desmond started wigging out) took about 12 hours to get to the freighter. SAyid remarked about the time right after they landed.

Also note that Fisher Stevens character Minkowski's present conscience jumped backwards to when he was on a ferris wheel as a child, the exact opposite effect that happened to Desmond.

All of this because they didn't follow the proper heading of 305, from the freighter to the Island. It was 325 from the ferry dock when Michael took off because they were on a different part of the Island.

You have to hit that particular 'window' or all hell breaks loose in space time. A floating dead body in the ocean would most certainly not 'enter' through the right co-ordinates, therefore epxerience the same crazy time effect. So the doc shows up dead on the Island before it 'actually' happened. That's my best guess on that one.

 

[U2DMfan]

So everyone who speculated it was Christian Sheperd in the shadows in the cabin last time Locke visited was right.
The question now is...was it intended as thus or are the writers truly allowing fans to write the show?

I had to re-read and edit because I don't think I was following what you were saying.

I think by putting him in the season 4 premeire inside of the cabin was at least a precursor to this episode.

Now, did they know they were going to do that all along?

Who knows? I'd suspect that they didn't but I doubt that means fans are writing the show. I've read so many crazy theories, I surely hope that wouldn't be the case.

 

[deep]

Two seperate events.

The first one with Horace=dead 12 years, was a dream.
Remember Locke woke up right afterwards.
Also Ben said "I used to have dreams too...."
I suppose the dreams are instructions from Jacob/Island

We only know it was a dream because "they" chose to show us Locke waking up.


Why? or how? would Ben even know Locke was dreaming?
also, how would he know locke got information?
and have you or anyone you know ever gotten information in a dream that led you to a destination with specific instructions and names?

all your fantastical explanations are much more difficult for me to accept than something like a few of these people being in an "altered state of conciseness" where they still have some control and free will to make choices

 

[U2DMfan]

We only know it was a dream because "they" chose to show us Locke waking up.


Why? or how? would Ben even know Locke was dreaming?
also, how would he know locke got information?
and have you or anyone you know ever gotten information in a dream that led you to a destination with specific instructions and names?

all your fantastical explanations are much more difficult for me to accept than something like a few of these people being in an "altered state of conciseness" where they still have some control and free will to make choices

Far be it from me to be "fantastical" when talking about 'Lost'.

Ben knew Locke was dreaming because the dialogue and resulting actions told us precisely that. It's not the first time a dream has revealed secrets on Lost. Locke saved Eko's life precisely because of the exact same situation.

I've never had a precognitive dream that I know of. I am also unaware that giant smoke monster security systems actually exist.

 

[deep]

I tried really hard to follow every little clue the first season or two

then it just became too much "for me"

I do know that there are a lot of fans out there invested in all the little nuances

when I wrote "fantastical" I was not being disrespectful to you or any other fan

many years ago I did ride out both seasons of "twin peaks" and that had some "fantastical" explanations, too

with this series, I just think the writers have boxed themselves in, and I am expecting many of our lost characters not to be "real"

that is my strong hunch, only time will confirm if I am right, I do seem to be in a minority with this belief

 

[U2DMfan]

We really should have been given more dialogue in that cabin. Very cheap move by the writers. Locke should have whipped out his gun and demanded answers.

Yep, totally agree.
All that walk up and to be just shown Christian Shepard, when everyone suspected that. It's almost as clumsy as the Michael reveal. Prior to that, the episode was ace.

When they showed Richard Alpert, I actually yelled "FUCK YES!!!!"

I'm thinking that they can't even hint at Jacob's true identity because we're going to find out we know Jacob really well and it just would unravel the fabric of the next two seasons.

So they gave us some crumbs to chew on. Rather than totally ignore the cabin for the whole season, save for the qucik glimpse in the season premeire.

 

[U2DMfan]

I tried really hard to follow every little clue the first season or two

then it just became too much "for me"

I do know that there are a lot of fans out there invested in all the little nuances

when I wrote "fantastical" I was not being disrespectful to you or any other fan

many years ago I did ride out both seasons of "twin peaks" and that had some "fantastical" explanations, too

with this series, I just think the writers have boxed themselves in, and I am expecting many of our lost characters not to be "real"

that is my strong hunch, only time will confirm if I am right, I do seem to be in a minority with this belief

I hear ya, man. I don't know anymore than the next guy, I just love the show and talking about it and trying to guess is more fun that watching something else on TV Most of it is dumbed down beyond belief.

I don't think we've really been shown enough to know what's actually going on. Based on the progression of the story arc from season 1 to 4 and each step in between, I can only imagine it will take antother big turn. Hoepfully it won't get too far out there.

I watched Twin Peaks as well, I thought it was very cool but also very odd for the sake of being odd. I'm not sure it made great storytellig anymore than it made a cool spectacle.

I don't think, yet anyways, that Lost is just tossing red herrings, curveballs and maguffins out there just for the sake of a cheat. St Elsewhere snowglobes, purgatory etc.=cheat.

I tend to agree that certain characters are boxed in but I guess I'm trusting that when we find out more, it will make more sense. Not because of blind faith but because the track record of the show so far has been great.

The guys behind the show always said they wanted to stay rooted in the real world, use scientifically possible (if maybe improbable) themes. So, I can defintely see what you are getting at, I'm just trying to think out loud.

 

[deep]

I never watched St Elsewhere

but, from what I heard, it was > a complete cheat.

also, that Dallas? or was it Dynasty where some guy was shot dead for a whole season and then it was just a dream or something. > cheat


when I watched the first Matrix movie and it was revealed the Neo'e experiences, though they were happening in his mind, they where not happening in a 3-dimensional world, I did not consider it a cheat, especially because of the fact that he was a living person that could die.


I have heard that the writers have said certain things. I think if the writers of the Matrix were asked if Neo was a living, breathing person experiencing real pain and feelings they would have said yes, too.

again,
I know my theory is not popular and I don't expect to win you or anyone over

I guess we are just each giving our impressions here.

good stuff

good tv

I really like the live orchestra music
it really hits the emotions

 

[U2DMfan]

the music is phenomenal

I really really dug the music on a video game I have, totally forgot about it, come to find out, the same dude does both Lost and the video game.

Popular Mechanics interviewed the creator/prodcers
it's a cool and not very long interview, sort of hitting on what we're talking about

I'll post it if I deem it to be spoiler free

2nd edit*

There were only two very minor spoilers both of which I had read about before. They won't ruin anything but I'm not going to post the link because of this, you can google it, anyone interested.

 

[Allanah]

I don't know that we can say that 100%. No one else from Flight 815 has died only to have their body disappear, with their ghost appearing immediately to other cast members...

Except Charlie.

Anyway, what a mindfuck. I'm thinking Claire might be dead as well. And what kind of time discrepancy is taking place between the freighter and the island? And why are radio transmissions immune to it? The "what happened to the doc?" message seems to have been sent in "real time," if there is such a thing on this show. I guess it's a day or two later on the island than it is on the freighter, if the doc's murder is any indication. And my head hurts.

It was nice seeing Desmond and Sayid again. And just how, pray tell, does Sayid plan on taking that tiny little raft 80 miles and back (isn't that how far Lapidus said it was)? No way there's enough gas in the tank of that thing.

 

[deep]

the music is phenomenal

I really really dug the music on a video game I have, totally forgot about it, come to find out, the same dude does both Lost and the video game.

Popular Mechanics interviewed the creator/prodcers
it's a cool and not very long interview, sort of hitting on what we're talking about

http://www.popularmechanics.com/blogs/science_news/4260693.html


l

well it looks like I caught it before your edit

I do want to read it

I want to know what you and others are referring to when it is said the writers said this or that?

I will just warn others not to if they are worried about possible spoilers

 

[U2DMfan]

They are pretty minor, I just wanted to let people know.

I was reading a fucking mainstream publication website, maybe Entertainment Weekly a few weeks ago and BOOM, in the first two paragraphs "Ben wearing a parka in the desert...." Before it had aired. No warning or anything. I couldn't believe that shit.

So I learned my lesson there.
First three seasons, I barely read about the show on the internet, I just watched it. Now, I'm a total geek.

Well, that and I found Lostpedia, which has everything you ever wanted to know about the show and is actually monitored for spoilers really well.

 

[Dreadsox]

Alright -

Did I type in here that Claire died?
Anyone here think Locke and Ben are brothers?
Anyone here think Abadon and Widmore were both on the slave ship?
Does anyone here think that Ben can program the smoke monster once he has NAMES? Something about names is very important?
Does anyone think Richard Alpert may be one of the only original others?

And most important - If the Island is constantly looking for new leadership - Is Aaron the next leader?

Was jack potentially a leader - but like Ben - rejected (illness)?

 

[beegee]

Anyone here think Locke and Ben are brothers?

Only if they aren't watching the show

We've seen both of the births so I don't think that's possible.

 

[Dreadsox]

Only if they aren't watching the show

We've seen both of the births so I don't think that's possible.

So the fact that Emily is the name of both mothers is not significant?

I only watch each episode 3-5 times looking for things so I probably do not have a clue.