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Old 03-16-2006, 01:26 AM   #91
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But who was "not racist" in that film? Everyone was! You might argue that the Latino father was not, but even then he got pretty worked up talking to the Persian store owner. Maybe a Larenz Tate's character. . .he might have been a stereotypical "good guy" (except that he's also a carjacker).

I'll concede the "nothing more". . .this was a huge cast, and as a result the characters were painted in pretty broad strokes. You can't get very deep with that many people on the screen. However, I thought there was enough of a hint of "more" there to make that lack forgivable. I came away feeling that there was more to these characters than their racial hangups even though that was pretty much all you saw (and sense race is the topic of the movie,maybe that's forgivable).

I still want to know if anyone recommends a better film on the issue of race. I'm wondering if maybe the real issue is that people think the TOPIC of racisim is cliche, and that's the real issue rather than the film itself.
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Old 03-16-2006, 09:47 AM   #92
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he got worked up talking to the persian store owner because the persian store owner was being an ass. your comment suggests that getting upset with someone of another race automatically makes you a racist. no wonder you loved this film so much.

it wasn't the topic of racism in this film that was cliche. it was the dialogue and the situations and the characters and the storyline. i guess my problem with crash would be that when i'm watching a film i rather enjoy NOT knowing exactly what's going to happen next or how a character is going to react.
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Old 03-16-2006, 10:07 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally posted by maycocksean
I still want to know if anyone recommends a better film on the issue of race. I'm wondering if maybe the real issue is that people think the TOPIC of racisim is cliche, and that's the real issue rather than the film itself.


it's a little bit dated, but "Do The Right Thing" is one of the finest movies ever made.
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Old 03-16-2006, 10:44 AM   #94
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american history x
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Old 03-16-2006, 11:37 AM   #95
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Ditto on "Do The Right Thing" and "American History X." That last one inspired my friend to turn his life around.
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Old 03-17-2006, 02:45 AM   #96
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Originally posted by bonosgirl84
he got worked up talking to the persian store owner because the persian store owner was being an ass. your comment suggests that getting upset with someone of another race automatically makes you a racist. no wonder you loved this film so much.

it wasn't the topic of racism in this film that was cliche. it was the dialogue and the situations and the characters and the storyline. i guess my problem with crash would be that when i'm watching a film i rather enjoy NOT knowing exactly what's going to happen next or how a character is going to react.
**sigh***

I hardly think someone getting upset with someone from another race makes them a racist. I personally don't think the Latino guy was racist. . .I'm just saying that someone might "argue" that he was.

ANYway. . .like I said before, I doubt anyone's going to change their minds. Who changes their minds about movies anyway? Is anyone going to actually say, "Hey, you know, you're right. Now that I think about it, now that you've convinced me. . . I no longer hate the movie, I love it!" Absurd.

I saw Do the Right Thing some years ago. I'd have to see it again to say whether it surpasses "Crash." I haven't seen American History X and I will definitely check it out.

I guess the reason I am so stubborn on "Crash" is because it "rang true" for me. It nailed the experiences I've had as a person of color growing up in Orlando, FL, reflects the views I have about human nature and how we relate to race in America (which is unique by the way. . .there's racial prejudice everywhere, but the American brand is uniquely twisted). Clearly it does not "ring true" to everyone, which makes me wonder what does? (One of the reasons why I inquired about other films). We don't see these films in a vacuum. Either the film gets it right in our view or doesn't. For me this film "got it right."
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Old 03-17-2006, 01:43 PM   #97
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Originally posted by maycocksean


**sigh***

I hardly think someone getting upset with someone from another race makes them a racist. I personally don't think the Latino guy was racist. . .I'm just saying that someone might "argue" that he was.

ANYway. . .like I said before, I doubt anyone's going to change their minds. Who changes their minds about movies anyway? Is anyone going to actually say, "Hey, you know, you're right. Now that I think about it, now that you've convinced me. . . I no longer hate the movie, I love it!" Absurd.

I saw Do the Right Thing some years ago. I'd have to see it again to say whether it surpasses "Crash." I haven't seen American History X and I will definitely check it out.

I guess the reason I am so stubborn on "Crash" is because it "rang true" for me. It nailed the experiences I've had as a person of color growing up in Orlando, FL, reflects the views I have about human nature and how we relate to race in America (which is unique by the way. . .there's racial prejudice everywhere, but the American brand is uniquely twisted). Clearly it does not "ring true" to everyone, which makes me wonder what does? (One of the reasons why I inquired about other films). We don't see these films in a vacuum. Either the film gets it right in our view or doesn't. For me this film "got it right."
That's interesting because as a Latina, and a native Angelena, this movie got so much wrong in part due to the hasty generalizations the film made.

I also suggest watching "To Kill A Mockingbird," it's great film adaptation of the classic book.
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Old 03-17-2006, 04:58 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally posted by maycocksean
I hardly think someone getting upset with someone from another race makes them a racist. I personally don't think the Latino guy was racist. . .I'm just saying that someone might "argue" that he was.
i was just going by what you said in your post:

Quote:
You might argue that the Latino father was not, but even then he got pretty worked up talking to the Persian store owner.
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Old 03-19-2006, 12:03 AM   #99
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Well, clearly in a duel of "racial credentials" you've got me beat

I think we've hit a wall with this. The film spoke to me. It didn't speak to you. Agree to disagree?

I did see "To Kill a Mockingbird" and read the book (what teacher hasn't) and it was very good.

I'll be back to post further once I've seen "American History X" which may be a few weeks, as I'll be traveling for a bit.
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Old 04-03-2006, 10:21 AM   #100
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Saw American History X. Excellent film. Defintely kept me guessing right up to the end. A really interesting meditation on what leads people to get invovled in hate movements. I really liked how they showed what changed Edward Norton's character Derek--the interaction and resulting humanizing of the hated "other" in prison. In my experience, this is about the only thing that will actually "cure" racism.

I wouldn't compare it to Crash though. It's a different type of film. American History X was essentially about "extreme racism", about people who will tell you, "yeah, I hate black people, what about it?" and how a person becomes someone with that kind of hate. It was not about the people who think they're not racist. This film, as good as it is, is more likely to leave you feeling self-satisfied, thinking "wow, thank God, I'm not like THAT! I would NEVER do any of those things." If you asked Derek or Danny in American History X if they hated blacks they would have said, hell, yes. If you asked Matt Dillon's or Sandra Bullock's or Ryan Philippe's characters in Crash, they would have said, "Oh,no. Not me. I'm not a racist."

I'm not going to try to convince anyone that Crash does a good job of addressing this more insidious type of racism (though I personally felt it did) but I do want to once again ask for suggestions on OTHER films that do address this type of racism. I'm not talking about movies about the Klan or Neonazis or Black Muslims. I'm talking about a film that addresses the underlying prejudice that all of us have, and that is most damaging in those who refuse to admitt they have it.
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