Game of Thrones

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For example, in the first season Ned Stark was probably the best realized and lived-in character on the show, though a lot of that probably had to do with the performance (and maybe writing as well, since the first season had a lot less to juggle and set up on screen than the last two seasons, weirdly). So the big moment at the end of that season really meant something for me, the pathos was earned, and that event's impact on the rest of the story could be felt immediately, before we even get to see the fall out in the enduing seasons. Whereas the whole line so far with Robb and his war-waging and finding a wife and so on felt pretty hollow to me the last two years (again, likely because of how each individual storyline is handled per episode, given a small piece at a time, and since so much exposition has to happen all the time there's less room for real character development and getting into their head space, with a few good exceptions). So while I'm sure this will have huge ramifications, in the moment it felt cheap, and like I wasted a whole bunch of time with these characters, since hey... they're dead. Which isn't how a major character death should felt. So I'm a bit disappointed, but I've felt that way for a lot of the last two seasons so wasn't at all surprised. I don't care for the way they handled the scene in the moment either, what with segueing from such a overly tender moment talking about the baby and naming it after his father (nice touch) and all the little lines and such in between - "regards from the Lannisters" or whatever he says. Just ehhh. Of course if I were invested, those same decisions might have really worked. As I guess they did for pretty much everyone else.

Having watched none of season 3 so far, I find reading this interesting. For me, the books barely spent any time with Robb and so, when he died, I was sad for the other major death that occurred (no one's mentioned it, so I wonder if it doesn't happen on the show?) but didn't care much about Robb.

However, in season 2, they really opened up Robb as a character and now I'm really dreading watching this season, a lot.
 
For example, in the first season Ned Stark was probably the best realized and lived-in character on the show, though a lot of that probably had to do with the performance (and maybe writing as well, since the first season had a lot less to juggle and set up on screen than the last two seasons, weirdly). So the big moment at the end of that season really meant something for me, the pathos was earned, and that event's impact on the rest of the story could be felt immediately, before we even get to see the fall out in the enduing seasons. Whereas the whole line so far with Robb and his war-waging and finding a wife and so on felt pretty hollow to me the last two years (again, likely because of how each individual storyline is handled per episode, given a small piece at a time, and since so much exposition has to happen all the time there's less room for real character development and getting into their head space, with a few good exceptions). So while I'm sure this will have huge ramifications, in the moment it felt cheap, and like I wasted a whole bunch of time with these characters, since hey... they're dead. Which isn't how a major character death should felt. So I'm a bit disappointed, but I've felt that way for a lot of the last two seasons so wasn't at all surprised. I don't care for the way they handled the scene in the moment either, what with segueing from such a overly tender moment talking about the baby and naming it after his father (nice touch) and all the little lines and such in between - "regards from the Lannisters" or whatever he says. Just ehhh. Of course if I were invested, those same decisions might have really worked. As I guess they did for pretty much everyone else.

I agree completely but could not have said it as well.

Other parts of the show are more satisfying to me. The Robb storyline line, not so much. The massacre left me cold and not really caring.

I can really understand that. In the books, Robb is not a major character, meaning we don't get any chapters from his perspective. The show tried to give him a bigger role, and I think they did a pretty good job. But, they are limited in what they can do given the confines of the source material.

One thing I think the show has done very well is consolidating characters. The book is even more full of people if you can believe it, and I agree it can water things down a bit.
 
Having watched none of season 3 so far, I find reading this interesting. For me, the books barely spent any time with Robb and so, when he died, I was sad for the other major death that occurred (no one's mentioned it, so I wonder if it doesn't happen on the show?) .

do you mean mama Stark or the dire wolf? those two will be missed. In the book, Robb's wife does not get (sharon tate) stabbed in the stomach, she does not even die in the book.


so once again, anyone that is not reading the book along with viewing this is not getting the whole and more importantly true story.
 
I am not a book reader, but I did read that on the nets last night. Hope it is right, I don't want to misrepresent.
I do agree with what you wrote before. They seem to be spinning the writing a bit, for the commercial/sensational boost.
 
do you mean mama Stark or the dire wolf? those two will be missed. In the book, Robb's wife does not get (sharon tate) stabbed in the stomach, she does not even die in the book.

Yeah, I meant her. Bout killed me when I read the book and that happened.
 
She was hardly a character in the book, to be fair. Like, I mean...I don't even remember who she was.

so it seems like they realized they had romantic lead with Rob Stark that they could expand on to boost the ratings with a certain demographic, as depicted in the youtube reactions.
 
She was hardly a character in the book, to be fair. Like, I mean...I don't even remember who she was.

Huh.

That's so shitty though. I mean, I haven't really sided too much with the show's critics complain about the gratuitous nudity or violence (all that much) until now, but something like this is pretty emblematic of that issue with the show I'm talking about. To even talk such a minor character, play up the sentiment of her being pregnant, then make her the center of this huge slaughter (and she was the center, the camera spent more time on her being wounded than anyone else, fucking shanked prison style in her pregnant abdomen a dozen times, then to bleed out slowly on the floor as everybody else is filled with arrows).

That's pretty fucking manipulative, and for what exactly? If they'd built up the other characters properly she wouldn't have even been necessary.

*grumble*
 
To be fair, it's a good way for GRRM to squash the "Jeyne is in hiding and pregnant" theory.

Anyway, I dug the character change as Jeyne is such a nonfactor, and I very much enjoyed seeing Oona Chaplin naked.
 
Huh.

That's so shitty though. I mean, I haven't really sided too much with the show's critics complain about the gratuitous nudity or violence (all that much) until now, but something like this is pretty emblematic of that issue with the show I'm talking about. To even talk such a minor character, play up the sentiment of her being pregnant, then make her the center of this huge slaughter (and she was the center, the camera spent more time on her being wounded than anyone else, fucking shanked prison style in her pregnant abdomen a dozen times, then to bleed out slowly on the floor as everybody else is filled with arrows).

That's pretty fucking manipulative, and for what exactly? If they'd built up the other characters properly she wouldn't have even been necessary.

*grumble*


Hard not to agree with this.
 
Huh.

That's so shitty though. I mean, I haven't really sided too much with the show's critics complain about the gratuitous nudity or violence (all that much) until now, but something like this is pretty emblematic of that issue with the show I'm talking about. To even talk such a minor character, play up the sentiment of her being pregnant, then make her the center of this huge slaughter (and she was the center, the camera spent more time on her being wounded than anyone else, fucking shanked prison style in her pregnant abdomen a dozen times, then to bleed out slowly on the floor as everybody else is filled with arrows).

That's pretty fucking manipulative, and for what exactly? If they'd built up the other characters properly she wouldn't have even been necessary.

*grumble*

While the stabbing in the stomach was a bit much, I don't have an issue with the fact they changed her from the books and made her more important. They pretty much had to do it when they decided to focus on Robb Stark, otherwise he'd not have a lot to do and they needed the audience to believe he'd break his vow to the Freys.
 
Huh.

That's so shitty though. I mean, I haven't really sided too much with the show's critics complain about the gratuitous nudity or violence (all that much) until now, but something like this is pretty emblematic of that issue with the show I'm talking about. To even talk such a minor character, play up the sentiment of her being pregnant, then make her the center of this huge slaughter (and she was the center, the camera spent more time on her being wounded than anyone else, fucking shanked prison style in her pregnant abdomen a dozen times, then to bleed out slowly on the floor as everybody else is filled with arrows).

That's pretty fucking manipulative, and for what exactly? If they'd built up the other characters properly she wouldn't have even been necessary.

*grumble*

I also agree. That was much. Some say it was to prevent another storyline of the hidden Stark heir who would grow to avenge his father, but it still wasn't worth it. Maybe they shouldn't have made her pregnant at all.
 
They never had to make her pregnant.
It would have been enough to have Robb apologize to his mother and agree to take her advice.
And then to have her horror at delivering herself and her son to people that take an oath seriously and cut their throats.

piling on all that other stuff was just, well what Lance said.
 
Huh.

That's so shitty though. I mean, I haven't really sided too much with the show's critics complain about the gratuitous nudity or violence (all that much) until now, but something like this is pretty emblematic of that issue with the show I'm talking about. To even talk such a minor character, play up the sentiment of her being pregnant, then make her the center of this huge slaughter (and she was the center, the camera spent more time on her being wounded than anyone else, fucking shanked prison style in her pregnant abdomen a dozen times, then to bleed out slowly on the floor as everybody else is filled with arrows).

That's pretty fucking manipulative, and for what exactly? If they'd built up the other characters properly she wouldn't have even been necessary.

*grumble*

OH! Oh dear...yeah...I uh, didn't see it, like I said. Had no idea it was that graphic. I mean, it was graphic in the book, to an extent. Not that much though.
Between taking Tyrion hostage and releasing Jamie it can also be argued she is the cause of the majority of the Starks woes.

Truth. When I was reading the books I always kind of wanted to yell at her through the pages as much as possible, every time she did something to cause things to get worse.


They like doing that. NSW gives me a hard time because I refused to accept that Ned was dead, because we don't actually see him die in the book. It's through Arya's POV, and she is shielded from the sight. Plus, Ned was getting POV chapters up until that point and he doesn't get one leading up to the beheading, so I had always kind of hoped that he was still out there alive somewhere. There was also the point made (adamantly) in the book, that Sansa did not recognize her father's head on the spike. I hated the show for making sure that I saw him die with my own eyes.
 
Ned's a force ghost now, Ashley. He's in a better place.

And as annoying as Cat is, the Stark men have nobody to blame but themselves for their plight....they're "good" men, but, they also are in over their head when it comes to conniving and backstabbing and politicking, etc....Ned confronting Cersei with what he knew was bat-shit insane, and Robb marrying Jeyne/not-Jeyne was insanely foolish. Not to mention his short sighted handling of the Rickard Karstark situation. Arya is the Stark best suited to rule. And kill.
 
Between taking Tyrion hostage and releasing Jamie it can also be argued she is the cause of the majority of the Starks woes.

how did either of those make anything worse?

she was just trying to get her children (girls) back

I don't recall any consequences, maybe I missed it.
 
how did either of those make anything worse?

she was just trying to get her children (girls) back

I don't recall any consequences, maybe I missed it.

Well, by taking Tyrion she forced Tywin Lannister to go to war against the North. Remember, it also incited Jaime to attack Ned and his guards. By releasing Jaime, she turned the North against one another and gave Tywin leave to directly attack Robb. I honestly don't think he'd have done it if Jaime were still a prisoner.
 
Ned's a force ghost now, Ashley. He's in a better place.

And as annoying as Cat is, the Stark men have nobody to blame but themselves for their plight....they're "good" men, but, they also are in over their head when it comes to conniving and backstabbing and politicking, etc....Ned confronting Cersei with what he knew was bat-shit insane, and Robb marrying Jeyne/not-Jeyne was insanely foolish. Not to mention his short sighted handling of the Rickard Karstark situation. Arya is the Stark best suited to rule. And kill.

:grumpy:

I don't find her annoying, just the things she did made me want to scream, that's all.

But you're right about the men as well. I mean...Ned did so many bone-headed things, when he really should have just trusted his gut and got the hell out of there. And...yeah...Robb...don't even get me started.
 
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