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Old 09-04-2002, 01:26 PM   #61
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So are we arguing over a record now?
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Old 09-04-2002, 01:31 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally posted by Achtung Bubba
There ARE right and wrong reactions. And, unless you honestly believe that justice was somehow served when 3,000+ American civilians were brutally murdered, you SHOULD feel a great deal of anger, rage even, at what happened on 9/11/01.

If you didn't, then I do believe that there is something wrong with you.
take it easy there, kiddo. no need to get your panties in a twist.

fortunately most same people are capable of controlling their rage or we would have blown ourselves to bits years ago.

be careful with your associations. you leave too much room for misinterpretation. or at least i hope it's simply misinterpretation of your sentiments on my part.
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Old 09-04-2002, 03:34 PM   #63
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Yep: we're arguing over a record.

(At any rate, the discussion over whether emotional reactions are right or wrong is a side discussion.)

As I said before, we should not exhibit "blind rage," we SHOULD control our anger so that it accomplishes good. But that's a far cry from saying we shouldn't be angry, or that we should somehow rise above our anger.
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Old 09-04-2002, 06:33 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally posted by Achtung Bubba


But why is that anger so missing in this album? Why isn't there even a single song that expresses rage?
That wasn't the point of the album, obviously.

Quote:
I believe that there ARE right ways and wrong ways to respond. You're free to respond whatever way you wish (and to publically embarass yourself doing so, a la Gere), but that doesn't change anything.

People SHOULD dislike bodily harm. If a person enjoys and feels pleasure from doing himself physical harm, we say that he suffers from masochism - a sexual perversion, meaning that it is an abnormal (i.e., wrong) reaction.

People also should enjoy food, at least to a degree, but those with eating disorders are often disgusted by the thought of food. Such a reaction is considered to be abnormal and in need of treatement; hence the word, "disorder."

There ARE right and wrong reactions. And, unless you honestly believe that justice was somehow served when 3,000+ American civilians were brutally murdered, you SHOULD feel a great deal of anger, rage even, at what happened on 9/11/01.

If you didn't, then I do believe that there is something wrong with you.

Bubba
Well. Never ONCE have I said that I was not angry- furious- etc. I never once said we shouldn't be at war- I dont even know WHY this thread turned into an argument about the war.

I was and I am incredibly filthy furious about what happened and it torments me as i'm sure it does others to this day.

THE POINT OF MY POST: the album IMO didn't need to focus on that rage. It did not need to. Bruce made music to bring relief not to constantly remind people of this deep-seeded anger which can get blown out of propotion and some people may not be able to keep it into control. I strongly believe that people are moved by music, and if the music is venomous and angry then I think it will continue this cycle of anger (perhaps even leading to hatred of all Muslims, etc. as we know hate gets out of control and not everyone can keep it in check) which -again- wasn't the point of this album.

To say people need to focus on this anger- did you ever figure that may just kill some people? totally incapacitate them? there are some things we cannot for our own health focus on every single day. This does not mean we think what happened was acceptable in any means.

I don't even want to continue this argument as I sense I will be pigeon-holed into supporting the Taliban or my words may be twisted around to say that I was not affected nor upset by the death of those thousands of people.

the Rising

this thread.
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Old 09-04-2002, 06:43 PM   #65
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Bubba are you like this in real life?
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Old 09-04-2002, 06:52 PM   #66
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Did I even suggest that the album should FOCUS on anger? No: I suggested that it should simply recognize that anger as a legitimate part of our reaction to 9/11:

Quote:
Originally posted by Achtung Bubba
If The Rising is to be a truly honest look at 9/11, there is no question in my mind that there HAS to be anger there.

Certainly, creating an album that ultimately uplifts the soul after this act of war IS A GOOD THING. But to ignore or trivialize the anger it caused is not.
I'm not asking for rage to dominate this album, but it should at LEAST make an appearance. It should be PRESENT. It isn't, so I suggest The Rising is lacking as a reaction to 9/11 - and, thus, is not album of the year.

(I'm not saying that the album of the year MUST be about 9/11. But if an album about 9/11 is to be album of the year, it must be an HONEST album.)

You're right, Olive, that the album need not "focus on that rage," anger which you suggest can get blown out of proportion and lead to thugs harassing and murdering innocent Muslims.

(Let's not forget: that anger can also lead us to do the right, necessary, difficult thing in destroying the terrorist organizations that threaten us.)

The Rising need not focus on anger. But anger should still be there.

Bubba
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Old 09-04-2002, 06:54 PM   #67
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Bubba are you like this in real life?
Why do you ask?
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Old 09-04-2002, 06:58 PM   #68
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just a question

A simple yes or no will do.

But that's not likely to happen so I retract my question.
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Old 09-04-2002, 07:01 PM   #69
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If you must know, the answer is yes.

Care to answer my question?
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Old 09-04-2002, 11:08 PM   #70
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I guess you don't want to answer the question.

Wouldn't be the first time... but I won't bring that up since the last time I did, I was accused of attacking you and was thus banned from "Free" Your Mind.

Bubba
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Old 09-04-2002, 11:15 PM   #71
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Normal we have a winner.

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Old 09-04-2002, 11:26 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally posted by Achtung Bubba
I guess you don't want to answer the question.

Wouldn't be the first time... but I won't bring that up since the last time I did, I was accused of attacking you and was thus banned from "Free" Your Mind.

Bubba
Excuse me but I dont have to answer your question.. I simply asked you a question and YOU didnt have to answer it either. In fact I retracted my question.

Do you really want to know? Well since you decided to piss me off instead of just letting it go I'm going to answer your question.

I wanted to know if you were like this in real life because I personally I wouldnt be able to see how anyone could stand you. Do your friends fall asleep when you talk to them? I could go on but I wont.

Dont post false statements. You were not banned from fym because of me only. I resent that you would say that. You were banned because of threads similar to this one. You drag shit out to oblivion when there is absolutely no need for it. Attacking me was just part of it. You cant even have a simple discussion about a RECORD without pissing people off. And I know because I've had complaints about this thread but I'm still allowing it to go on.

I suggest you drop the subject now.
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Old 09-04-2002, 11:59 PM   #73
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I'm not even going to argue with somebody who feels they have a right to tell everyone else how to feel about certain things.

Just like I won't even attempt to tell someone how they're feeling when they write a song, or how angry they were at the time they wrote it.





To quote Bruce, let's (all just try to) be friends.

Jaysus.
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Old 09-05-2002, 01:02 AM   #74
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I wanted to know if you were like this in real life because I personally I wouldnt be able to see how anyone could stand you. Do your friends fall asleep when you talk to them? I could go on but I wont.
NICE.

VERY NICE.

Quote:
Dont post false statements. You were not banned from fym because of me only. I resent that you would say that. You were banned because of threads similar to this one. You drag shit out to oblivion when there is absolutely no need for it. Attacking me was just part of it. You cant even have a simple discussion about a RECORD without pissing people off. And I know because I've had complaints about this thread but I'm still allowing it to go on.
"You were not banned from fym because of me only. I resent that you would say that. You were banned because of threads similar to this one."

REALLY?

Elvis disagrees:

FYM will no longer be a war zone...
be warned.

If you cant discuss without attacking someone or a group, etc.. you best take it out of FYM... and off Feedback.

One member has already been voted off the island (fym).


It certainly LOOKS like I was banned for "attacking" you, a charge I don't see. If you're right, then I was banned for "dragging shit out to oblivion" - and I didn't think that was an offense that result in banning.

Elvis certainly never publically warned us that we could banned for being long-winded.

Quote:
I suggest you drop the subject now.
Tell you what: I'll start listening to you as an admin and moderator when you start acting like one.

Bubba
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Old 09-05-2002, 01:05 AM   #75
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Bad move.
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