LuckyNumber7
Blue Crack Addict
Not a doctor but unless his half muscle gave way in some sort of convulsion/cramp/fold and caused the full force of that stomp to go on his achilles, it could be just totally random/not related.
NBA 2019, Finals & Beyond
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lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
Regardless, it's debatable whether it was worth risking anything when the team was down 3-1 with 2 more games to play in Toronto.
LemonMelon
More 5G Than Man
We'll see where that debate goes as the series wears on. If they somehow win another two games, sacrificing KD will be a historical moment. If they lose game 6, not so much.
LuckyNumber7
Blue Crack Addict
It’ll first be a medical debate as to whether or not he was ‘sacrificed.’ Leave that one to the doctors.
It was a freak accident.
KD and his family are also not blaming anyone for what happened. Not the trainers, not the doctors, not his agent, not Bob Meyers, not Drake, not even Laz.
Does anyone honestly believe they would have put him out there if they thought there was a legitimate chance of this happening? Does anyone think his agent would sign off on this if rupturing his Achilles was a legitimate outcome, risking his biggest client?
There are people out there like "if there was even a 1% chance of this happened they shouldn't have played him." There is ALWAYS a chance of this happening, calf injury, load management or not.
KD and his family are also not blaming anyone for what happened. Not the trainers, not the doctors, not his agent, not Bob Meyers, not Drake, not even Laz.
Does anyone honestly believe they would have put him out there if they thought there was a legitimate chance of this happening? Does anyone think his agent would sign off on this if rupturing his Achilles was a legitimate outcome, risking his biggest client?
There are people out there like "if there was even a 1% chance of this happened they shouldn't have played him." There is ALWAYS a chance of this happening, calf injury, load management or not.
DaveC
Blue Crack Addict
i mean, i wouldn't have posted "this sounds like a recipe for a snapped achilles" two hours before game time for no reason at all. i'm not nostradaveus.
this exact same thing (more or less) happened to someone i knew in college, he had a pulled calf muscle and tried doing sprints on it and coming out of the starting blocks his achilles snapped like a broken rubber band. he told me the doctors said that the weakened calf muscle gave less stability and protection to the upper achilles which is what allowed it to break from the sudden explosive push. i know that's just one anecdote, but still.
i was certainly exaggerating a bit on that post as i didn't *really* think he was going to injure himself like this but it seemed to me (and still does) like this risk had to be higher than for the average fully healthy player.
nobody will ever convince me that this was a total coincidental freak accident. of course the warriors all want everyone to think that because if it's truly a freak thing then nobody is to blame (aka nobody is legally liable). but it's a little too far fetched for me to believe that this was something that just randomly happened to the exact same part of the same leg after only 11 minutes of putting real effort and force onto that injury for the first time in a month.
this exact same thing (more or less) happened to someone i knew in college, he had a pulled calf muscle and tried doing sprints on it and coming out of the starting blocks his achilles snapped like a broken rubber band. he told me the doctors said that the weakened calf muscle gave less stability and protection to the upper achilles which is what allowed it to break from the sudden explosive push. i know that's just one anecdote, but still.
i was certainly exaggerating a bit on that post as i didn't *really* think he was going to injure himself like this but it seemed to me (and still does) like this risk had to be higher than for the average fully healthy player.
nobody will ever convince me that this was a total coincidental freak accident. of course the warriors all want everyone to think that because if it's truly a freak thing then nobody is to blame (aka nobody is legally liable). but it's a little too far fetched for me to believe that this was something that just randomly happened to the exact same part of the same leg after only 11 minutes of putting real effort and force onto that injury for the first time in a month.
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No offense to your friend in college, nor whomever the coach and trainer was, but this is not at all the same situation whatsoever. These are the greatest athletes in the world with access to the most scientific athletic assessments available.
Freak accident might be putting it too strong. The knee bones connected to the dick bone and all that shit.
There is no way in hell the Warriors or his agent Rich Kleinman would have put him on the floor if they thought that there was a higher than normal chance of snapping his Achilles tendon.
If they hid something from KD? It'll get out. They already have 3 trophies. They're opening a billion dollar building next season with sold out $2 million dollar a game suites. Two of the top available free agents this off-season are on their roster. Risking their standing with players in the league and potential free agents is worth a hell of a lot more money to them than winning THIS particular championship. They'd have to be the dumbest organization in the world to hide something this big.
What is their motivation to risk ruining everything they've built up over the past 5 seasons over a player who everyone keeps saying was leaving anyways? Are they suicidal?
Do we think KD's reps didn't get second and third opinions with this much on the line?
Now if you told me that KD, Kleinman and perhaps the Warriors medical staff have known all along that he has some structural deficiencies in his leg that led them to believe it was a ticking time bomb that was going to go off at some point one way or the other? I might believe that. This is the same leg he had his foot issue with a few years back. Have they been hiding something the entire time with KD's consent? Is this why he has only signed short term contracts each year? If you told me that? I'll believe you.
To think that they knew there was a higher than normal chance of this occurring, and everyone just shrugged their shoulders and let him play anyways? When the organization has 3 recent rings, the player has 2, and he's got free agency looming?
It goes against all logic. Maybe they did. I just can't believe that they'd be that dumb with the financial future of the organization on the line.
Freak accident might be putting it too strong. The knee bones connected to the dick bone and all that shit.
There is no way in hell the Warriors or his agent Rich Kleinman would have put him on the floor if they thought that there was a higher than normal chance of snapping his Achilles tendon.
If they hid something from KD? It'll get out. They already have 3 trophies. They're opening a billion dollar building next season with sold out $2 million dollar a game suites. Two of the top available free agents this off-season are on their roster. Risking their standing with players in the league and potential free agents is worth a hell of a lot more money to them than winning THIS particular championship. They'd have to be the dumbest organization in the world to hide something this big.
What is their motivation to risk ruining everything they've built up over the past 5 seasons over a player who everyone keeps saying was leaving anyways? Are they suicidal?
Do we think KD's reps didn't get second and third opinions with this much on the line?
Now if you told me that KD, Kleinman and perhaps the Warriors medical staff have known all along that he has some structural deficiencies in his leg that led them to believe it was a ticking time bomb that was going to go off at some point one way or the other? I might believe that. This is the same leg he had his foot issue with a few years back. Have they been hiding something the entire time with KD's consent? Is this why he has only signed short term contracts each year? If you told me that? I'll believe you.
To think that they knew there was a higher than normal chance of this occurring, and everyone just shrugged their shoulders and let him play anyways? When the organization has 3 recent rings, the player has 2, and he's got free agency looming?
It goes against all logic. Maybe they did. I just can't believe that they'd be that dumb with the financial future of the organization on the line.
iron yuppie
ONE love, blood, life
It could be KD knew there was a slight risk and he elected to play anyway. You can't discount how legendary it would have been had he returned from injury to lead them out of a 3-1 hole.
LuckyNumber7
Blue Crack Addict
It could be any of these things. I doubt it would be something mischievous by the not-desperate warriors, though.
DaveC
Blue Crack Addict
i make no claim that there was anything nefarious or shady about it by anybody involved with KD or the team, or that this is anyone in particular's "fault". and yes of course the medical staff of the 2019 golden state warriors is considerably more advanced than the staff of the 2004 dalhousie university track team.
i'm also by no means saying that i know what happened and it's person x's fault, or anything like that. just saying that the notion that it's completely unrelated and a totally random accident doesn't pass the eye test to me.
if this were the regular season it's fairly evident that they'd have taken a lot longer to more gradually ease him back into playing at 100%. i understand that with the season on the line they didn't have that option and i think everyone involved (KD most of all) likely pushed for his return just a little too quickly. the dude hadn't even done much more than a shootaround in over a month before he went out playing at full speed. that can't be good for your risk of incurring *any* injury. and if that leg wasn't fully back to 100% his body would have made adjustments to protect it that could have caused the achilles to be abnormally strained.
of course i am neither a doctor or involved in any way so it's all just bullshit speculation until and unless we get more information eventually. i suspect that over the offseason we'll find out a lot more about what happened over the last couple of weeks and the picture will become clearer.
i'm also by no means saying that i know what happened and it's person x's fault, or anything like that. just saying that the notion that it's completely unrelated and a totally random accident doesn't pass the eye test to me.
if this were the regular season it's fairly evident that they'd have taken a lot longer to more gradually ease him back into playing at 100%. i understand that with the season on the line they didn't have that option and i think everyone involved (KD most of all) likely pushed for his return just a little too quickly. the dude hadn't even done much more than a shootaround in over a month before he went out playing at full speed. that can't be good for your risk of incurring *any* injury. and if that leg wasn't fully back to 100% his body would have made adjustments to protect it that could have caused the achilles to be abnormally strained.
of course i am neither a doctor or involved in any way so it's all just bullshit speculation until and unless we get more information eventually. i suspect that over the offseason we'll find out a lot more about what happened over the last couple of weeks and the picture will become clearer.
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iron yuppie
ONE love, blood, life
It would be one hell of a coincidence if the achilles just happened to snap minutes after returning from another injury on the same leg.
DaveC
Blue Crack Addict
Great. A doctor who never examined him and knows absolutely nothing of the extent of his original injury, nor what steps he was taking in his rehab process, thinks it was crazy to put him back on the court.
DaveC
Blue Crack Addict
the doctor is talking about the general timeframes for recovering from injuries of this type, but sure, a leading expert in foot and ankle injuries to elite athletes can't possibly have any valuable insight into this because he didn't look at durant's leg with his own two eyes, or something.
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Sure. Let's play this game
Oh hey, there's a highly thought of surgeon, who's worked with multiple pro sports teams, including Golden State, who says that it's not related.
The only people who have any legitimate say about whether or not he had checked the necessary boxes to get back on the court are the doctors who actually treated him.
But hey, tennis guy says his Achilles was fish chum so clearly all of Golden State's doctors and trainers, along with the ones KD's own people had him see, are irresponsible jerk dicks who should have their licenses taken away
Oh hey, there's a highly thought of surgeon, who's worked with multiple pro sports teams, including Golden State, who says that it's not related.
The only people who have any legitimate say about whether or not he had checked the necessary boxes to get back on the court are the doctors who actually treated him.
But hey, tennis guy says his Achilles was fish chum so clearly all of Golden State's doctors and trainers, along with the ones KD's own people had him see, are irresponsible jerk dicks who should have their licenses taken away
DaveC
Blue Crack Addict
gee i wonder if someone who's been a part of the warriors medical staff might have a reason for saying nobody is to blame for this random freak accident 
nah couldn't be.
nah couldn't be.
Nah you're right man.
The doctors knew that an Achilles rupture was a serious risk. They did no rehab. He was literally just sitting on a chair until right before game time and then decided fuck it, I'm going to risk throwing away 100s of millions.
The franchise also decided that they're going to risk all of the equity they've built up with players around the league and irresponsibly throw him out there, literally right before the most important financial period in the franchise's history.
I question whether they even looked at an MRI. Probably just threw some tussin on that shit and hoped for the best.
The doctors knew that an Achilles rupture was a serious risk. They did no rehab. He was literally just sitting on a chair until right before game time and then decided fuck it, I'm going to risk throwing away 100s of millions.
The franchise also decided that they're going to risk all of the equity they've built up with players around the league and irresponsibly throw him out there, literally right before the most important financial period in the franchise's history.
I question whether they even looked at an MRI. Probably just threw some tussin on that shit and hoped for the best.
If they did just toss him out there irresponsibly, and everyone inside the organization knew it? Great for the rest of the league, cause they're sunk.
I can't believe they'd be that dumb.
I can't believe they'd be that dumb.
DaveC
Blue Crack Addict
i don't even know how to reply to that. i really hate it when you do this deliberately misrepresentative strawman hyperbole shit.
of course my argument sounds dumb and ridiculous when you take it to a dumb and ridiculous extreme and then pretend like that's what i was saying all along. except i didn't say literally any of that or anything even close to it, at any point.
of course my argument sounds dumb and ridiculous when you take it to a dumb and ridiculous extreme and then pretend like that's what i was saying all along. except i didn't say literally any of that or anything even close to it, at any point.
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My eyes rolled back in their head so hard I may have torn my Achilles.
You're right though, I've offered no explanation as to why it would Golden State wouldn't do this if they thought there was a serious chance of the Achilles popping. I am but a straw man who can not defeat the sound argument that they merely didn't care, so I fall back on being a 12 year old.
Oops, I did it again.
Come on man.
You're right though, I've offered no explanation as to why it would Golden State wouldn't do this if they thought there was a serious chance of the Achilles popping. I am but a straw man who can not defeat the sound argument that they merely didn't care, so I fall back on being a 12 year old.
Oops, I did it again.
Come on man.
DaveC
Blue Crack Addict
not one single person here made any sort of argument even coming close to "they merely didn't care", but okay. have fun with your tantrum.
maybe is should just say you're wrong and run away for a few days
DaveC
Blue Crack Addict
of all people, i never expected you'd be the one to go that low. and it didn't even take four hours after i came back to the thread
this thread has really brought out the true colours of a lot of people i appear to have misjudged for a long time.
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
Have to say I agree with all of this, and I don’t think by doing so I’m supporting the notion that Headache suggests.
namkcuR
ONE love, blood, life
Yeah, I think Headache is wrong here. I support DaveC. The circumstances around the whole thing are, at the very least, suspicious.
OP
OP
Dude, come on. This isn’t an either/or situation, where they’re either complete monsters or have done every conceivable thing to consider KD’s safety and health before sending him out. Suggesting that maybe playing KD was a risky move given the nature of his injury is not the same thing as saying “they didn’t give a shit and intentionally sent KD out there with no rehab!1!!” There’s room to discuss without going to extremes here.
Misrepresenting Dave’s argument and then tossing out this low blow when he pushes back isn’t a good look.
LemonMelon
More 5G Than Man
As a Redskins fan, I'm just used to coaches (and ownership!) putting star players with knee/leg injuries in danger if they feel the situation is particularly urgent.
LuckyNumber7
Blue Crack Addict
Meep why
You guys both offer possible outcomes but I really don’t know why picking a side is worthwhile. Just like neither of those doctors treated the patient, neither did any of us.
Nor are we doctors.
So maybe it’s just healthy to comment on what implications are of each possibility, rather than vigorously defend one of the possible outcomes.
Again, I doubt Golden State put him on the line. Or maybe they did! Maybe they realized that win-or-injury was the only way to keep Durant.
Time will tell. Will it?
iron yuppie
ONE love, blood, life
Arguably interference’s favorite logical fallacy is the false dichotomy.
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
Reminds me of when GAF tried to use a dildo on Lance’s Mom.
“Get this false dichotomy!!”
“Get this false dichotomy!!”
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