This is why I think sometimes "blowing up" teams is slightly overrated and should only be done as a worst-case alternative. There is a lot of fluctuation from year to year that can make teams competitive (look at the As and Orioles last year). Asking a fanbase to accept losing for several years, while taking on the risks associated with developing prospects, is a difficult proposition. It was probably needed for the Mets due to their financial difficulties (and I think they got a good deal with Dickey). But alienating a fanbase is a tough thing to do, especially when you need to convince them to come back to the stadium.
MLB Thread 2012 - The Postseason
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This is why I think sometimes "blowing up" teams is slightly overrated and should only be done as a worst-case alternative. There is a lot of fluctuation from year to year that can make teams competitive (look at the As and Orioles last year). Asking a fanbase to accept losing for several years, while taking on the risks associated with developing prospects, is a difficult proposition. It was probably needed for the Mets due to their financial difficulties (and I think they got a good deal with Dickey). But alienating a fanbase is a tough thing to do, especially when you need to convince them to come back to the stadium.
The problem isn't the blowing it up... Its that they've been blowing it up for 5 years and now next year will be 6.
I do like that alderson is trying to restock what was a depleted farm system... but that it got THIS depleted that its taking so long just to even sniff competitiveness just goes to show how incredibly incompetent the wilpons have been in running this franchise.
I do like that alderson is trying to restock what was a depleted farm system... but that it got THIS depleted that its taking so long just to even sniff competitiveness just goes to show how incredibly incompetent the wilpons have been in running this franchise.
What I'm trying to say is that it's usually incredibly difficult to become competitive again once you blow up. For each case of a successful rebuilding, there are many cases of unsuccessful ones. In some cases it's inevitable (and I think this was the Mets' situation due to the Wilpons as you say), but I would avoid a total blow up unless strictly necessary.
the tourist
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I don't know, the A's seem to blow it up all the time and then compete a year or two later.
elevated_u2_fan
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I think I burned myself on that stove, its too fucking hot!
Ladies and gentlemen, your 2012 Toronto Blue Jays.
Ladies and gentlemen, your 2012 Toronto Blue Jays.
the tourist
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Went 73-89 and took 4th place in their division!
BoMac
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Anything that makes Elfa look like an idiot deserves to be quoted multiple times.
elevated_u2_fan
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Meh, you could probably quote most of my posts if you wanted to do that...
the tourist
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No spoken words
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PhilsFan
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Usually the unsuccessful ones happen because the same people who fucked it up the first time are still running the show.
PhilsFan
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I really want the Phillies to sign Cody Ross. Forgive me, but I want to break down a projected roster if they get Ross. I will spoiler it for those who don't care, but I love this kind of shit:
1. Ben Revere - CF
2. Jimmy Rollins - SS
3. Chase Utley - 2B
4. Ryan Howard - 1B
5. Cody Ross - RF
6. Dom Brown - LF
7. Carlos Ruiz - C [After Suspension]
8. Michael Young - 3B
Bench: Eric Kratz, Freddy Galvis, Kevin Frandsen, Darin Ruf, Ender Inciarte
Rotation: Cole Hamels, Roy Halladay, Cliff Lee, Kyle Kendrick, John Lannan
Bullpen: Tyler Cloyd, Phillipe Aumont, Justin De Fratus, Antonio Bastardo, Jeremy Horst, Mike Adams, Jonathan Papelbon
You start the season with Kratz at catcher and Sebastian Valle on the bench till Ruiz gets back from suspension. It's 25 games and Kratz can hit. Shouldn't be a huge loss and prevents Ruiz from breaking down.
Obviously, there are several guesses here. The bullpen is a mystery beyond Papelbon and Adams, though the addition of Adams alone makes this bullpen way better than it was last year. I like the idea of Cloyd as a long man as opposed to a starter, and Aumont and De Fratus have way more talent than Joe Savery or Michael Schwimmer ever showed last year. That leaves two spots for lefties. Bastardo will have to lose the job to lose his spot, and Horst looked better to me than Valdes did.
The bench is also interesting. Kratz will be a lock. Galvis will too since he can play shortstop and second. And Inciarte has to stay because he is Rule Five. That leaves two spots and four guys: Kevin Frandsen (3B), Darin Ruf (1B/LF), Laynce Nix (OF) and John Mayberry (OF). Frandsen probably has the best shot because of how he played down the stretch and the questions about Young at this age, but his numbers were inflated by luck: a very high BABIP. He doesn't walk much, either. Still, it feels like his job to lose. That leaves three guys for one spot. Nix is almost definitely the odd man out. He's done nothing. Ruf is the younger guy with the greater potential, but I could see them sending him back down to the minors to continue developing if they feel that Mayberry can be the last man off the bench and spell Brown from time to time.
Of course, they have to sign Ross for this to happen, so who knows.
2. Jimmy Rollins - SS
3. Chase Utley - 2B
4. Ryan Howard - 1B
5. Cody Ross - RF
6. Dom Brown - LF
7. Carlos Ruiz - C [After Suspension]
8. Michael Young - 3B
Bench: Eric Kratz, Freddy Galvis, Kevin Frandsen, Darin Ruf, Ender Inciarte
Rotation: Cole Hamels, Roy Halladay, Cliff Lee, Kyle Kendrick, John Lannan
Bullpen: Tyler Cloyd, Phillipe Aumont, Justin De Fratus, Antonio Bastardo, Jeremy Horst, Mike Adams, Jonathan Papelbon
You start the season with Kratz at catcher and Sebastian Valle on the bench till Ruiz gets back from suspension. It's 25 games and Kratz can hit. Shouldn't be a huge loss and prevents Ruiz from breaking down.
Obviously, there are several guesses here. The bullpen is a mystery beyond Papelbon and Adams, though the addition of Adams alone makes this bullpen way better than it was last year. I like the idea of Cloyd as a long man as opposed to a starter, and Aumont and De Fratus have way more talent than Joe Savery or Michael Schwimmer ever showed last year. That leaves two spots for lefties. Bastardo will have to lose the job to lose his spot, and Horst looked better to me than Valdes did.
The bench is also interesting. Kratz will be a lock. Galvis will too since he can play shortstop and second. And Inciarte has to stay because he is Rule Five. That leaves two spots and four guys: Kevin Frandsen (3B), Darin Ruf (1B/LF), Laynce Nix (OF) and John Mayberry (OF). Frandsen probably has the best shot because of how he played down the stretch and the questions about Young at this age, but his numbers were inflated by luck: a very high BABIP. He doesn't walk much, either. Still, it feels like his job to lose. That leaves three guys for one spot. Nix is almost definitely the odd man out. He's done nothing. Ruf is the younger guy with the greater potential, but I could see them sending him back down to the minors to continue developing if they feel that Mayberry can be the last man off the bench and spell Brown from time to time.
Of course, they have to sign Ross for this to happen, so who knows.
No spoken words
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LL Piss, this is the sort of stuff I used to doodle in High School. And College. And when I first started working at a desk. And last week in a big meeting. I wrote down projected lineups vs. LHP and RHP based on current roster, and a few based on potential FA acquisitions.
GirlsAloudFan
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Yeah, the Mike Adams signing was excellent. I was hoping we would grab that fucker.
No spoken words
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Where's Bourn going to wind up?
the tourist
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I fucking hope not in Seattle.
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Just read some rumors that the Dodgers are shopping Ethier with an eye towards signing Bourn.
GirlsAloudFan
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What kind of world do we live in where a baseball fan doesn't want Michael Bourn on their team?
PhilsFan
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I do the same thing but with Excel spreadsheets. I do it for all sports. I already have a 2013 depth chart for Penn State based on the recruits they have been getting.
I should really finish this final exam paper before I keep going on this.
PhilsFan
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The one where Scott Boras exists.
GirlsAloudFan
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Meh.
Dude's a damn good player. The Mariners suck, and would be a better team with him.
Dude's a damn good player. The Mariners suck, and would be a better team with him.
the tourist
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The Mariners are rebuilding. Michael Bourn costs draft picks. The way the new CBA works, losing a top draft pick is much, much more detrimental to the entire draft class for that team than it has been in the past thanks to the new rules regarding slot.
Then there's the actual player. Michael Bourn's primary assets are speed and defense. The Mariners already have one of the better defenses in baseball. And the last time the Mariners gave up a top draft pick to get a slap-hitting speedster whose value was also tied to good defense, it was Chone Figgins. And yeah, he made the team so much better with his shitty play.
the tourist
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GirlsAloudFan
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I guess we just disagree on philosophy there. I'll always take a proven talent over a crapshoot draft pick.
And, Michael Bourn =/= Chone Figgins.
The way you wrote that, it makes it seem like just because Chone burned you, you're going to forever dismiss the notion of signing that specific type of ballplayer. To me, that is just silly.
Bourn is a baller.
And, Michael Bourn =/= Chone Figgins.
The way you wrote that, it makes it seem like just because Chone burned you, you're going to forever dismiss the notion of signing that specific type of ballplayer. To me, that is just silly.
Bourn is a baller.
PhilsFan
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Sportswise, I regret becoming so Philly-centric in how studied I am. I wish I had remotely as good a knowledge of other teams and players as I do about those who have gone through my teams. Obviously every fan knows his/her team best, but I really want to make a concerted effort to be more well-rounded when talking about these things.Good stuff. All makes good sense!
I think the first step, once I am on my own, will be putting out money for those packages where you can watch other games than the local ones. Your MLB.TV's, your Sunday Ticket's. I love it when I can have a good, in-depth discussion of Philly or Penn State sports with someone. Being able to do the same with fans of other teams would be great.
the tourist
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That's not it at all. If he didn't cost the punting of the 2013 draft or if the Mariners were not rebuilding, I'd be happy to have him on the team. As a complimentary player. At this point though, on a young and rebuilding team that needs to continue to develop and have its high-minors talent graduate and develop (while infusing the system with young talent in the upcoming draft), he doesn't make a whole lot of sense at the money Boras wants.
I'd also be opposed to a Nick Swisher signing (albeit less so as he's a much better hitter than Bourn) for the same reasons I mentioned in the previous paragraph. Neither really makes sense on a rebuilding team. Unless the team was going to go hog wild (in which case I'd have rather they signed Anibal Sanchez and Zack Greinke and traded their plethora of minor league pitching for hitting, as neither Sanchez nor Greinke would cost a draft pick). But that ship has sailed.
the tourist
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sbnation is really good for that. Really wonderful network of blogs.
PhilsFan
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I actually started commenting on Penn State's SBNation blog this year. I also occasionally head over to the Philadelphia ones. But I began breaking out recently into more national ones. I follow the college football one Every Day Should Be Saturday, which is humorous but still insightful. Going to try to follow more this spring, when my coursework here will be much lighter.
No spoken words
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For other sports, I mostly rely on major web sites/newspapers, but for baseball I read a shit ton of different blogs.
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